TroyMcClure

Thank you Mr Pot. Funny to see this from the person who said..

click

Not to mention the person who has more personal insults per post than anyone on the forum. Only Troy calls people a d!ck. Only Troy has insulted the Mule. Yet he wants to try to take the high road lol.

I know it must be painful for you to see the Hawks winning. I hope you find a way to cope.

How is it funny. You have acted like a baby since the first day I got here. I was simply asking why? I've said it before and I'll say it again. You are a LIAR You can say anything you want Exodus, that doesn't make it true. See, I don't argue with anyone here except you. The strange thing is, the line of people arguing with you is 10 deep. Wonder why?

Keep bringing up the Graymule thing, it's only been a year. I did feel that he was wrong and I told him so. Unlike you though, I actually have feelings for other humans and I felt bad, even though I was right, and apologized to him. I have no problem with him and he has no problem with me, at least to my knowledge. So, it's really none of your business.

Lastly, the only thing pain I'm having related to the Hawks is you.

The Falcons are truly blessed. Who can deny there is a God with the miraculous turnaround this year. God is smiling down on the city of Atlanta and it's Falcon fans.

That's got nothing to do with it. It's about having intelligent management and coaching. It's that simple. I predicted the Falcons would probably win 8 or 9 games right here on Hawksquawk. I explained how the difference between 6-10 and 10-6, isn't much. The Hawks will never have this kind of success as long as the ASG owns the team and Woody coaches them. It's about competence. The Falcons have it. The saying about keeping your head when all others around you are losing theirs, comes to mind.

So is your stupidity regarding JJ. No matter how many games he comes through in the clutch, no matter how many All-Star appearances he makes, you will continue to dog him. You will never give him credit. You are no different than Hotlanta1981.

I find this type of post to be not needed around here. I hope the new mods will agree. Exodus routinely insults people at the drop of a hat. This is getting really boring. Someone needs to stop this. It's totally ridiculous to continue to let him do this. I've tried to be friends with ex, even defending him at times, but it's to the point where I have almost no respect for his opinion, because of these "Joe Johnson" situations. He totally avoids the point and continually makes character assasinations of other posters. The above quote is a case in point. Anyone else tired of Ex thinking he can read your mind and telling you what you would say?

Thanks to dsinner for keeping it real. Funny, Ex isn't fighting with him. But he's said the same thing that teke, and myself as well as others have said. That gets to the point of what I'm saying about Ex. I don't know what has been going on lately, as I've not been around so much in the off-season, but this is the very type of continually inflammatory posting that is at the root of any problem, imo.

There is good natured jabbing, then there is Exodus.

Joe wll never score 50 because he doesn't get to the line enough. He has all the ability in the world, but he just doesn't take full advantage. It's the most frustrating thing about him.

It's because he's torn between being a pg and a scorer. I just wish he would pound less and move without the ball more. Of course we would need a coach to make that happen, so...

You could tell by the look on his face his nerves were getting the best of him.

And he missed. Even the announcers called it.

BTW if Woodrow gets canned I'd like to nominate Mark Jackson to coach the Hawks.

I know it's just 1 game out of 82 but I"m always looking at the Eastern Conference competition.

Dwade missed one on the other end.

I don't know if he's enough of a jerk to coach these guys. An Avery Johnson would do just fine, imo.

It's funny, MJ pointed out the other night during the Celtics game that we were going back to a play that was working. Funny, he doesn't know that's the only one we run!

Jeez man you are really good at this. I think people are obviously coming from different places on the word "choke". I will say that even though what Ex is saying sounds a bit off-base, there is some truth to it.

Someone affected by the gravity of the moment will more likely miss badly. Pushing it a touch long is a shooter's miss. It happens.

Joe failed but I don't consider it a choke considering his history and his current clutch free throw %.

I think inferring that Joe is admitting to choking from his quote of "the pressure was on and I missed" is a reach. That is just stating the obvious and owning the failure.

How do any of us know what was going through Joe's mind as he decided to start his motion? It's effing retarded to even begin to say "well, this is clearly a a choke over here but that isn't a choke over there, blah, blah, blah"

All I can say is how would we have all felt if that free throw cost a playoff game or a series? My guess is it would most certainly be considered a choke. I guess, Gary Anderson didn't choke back in the day. No one makes 100%. He was due for a miss, right? That argument doesn't wash for me. Really though, this is just so silly.

And where does all of this KG hate come from? He's not had very much talent around him for much of his career. And saying he's not clutch? Well, someone could say the same thing about Tim Duncan. That would be stupid, though. He's missed a ton at the line with the game in the balance. But he's not a choker. Neither is KG. He's always made plays in the 4th qtr. He's the most skilled big man to ever play the game and he's not retiring anytime soon. We're all going to see just how dominant an un-clutch player can be. This won't be his last ring.

I really would like to know what the mystical paramaters of "clutch situations" are. It's sort of a know it when you see it kind of thing. To try to use stats is just absurd... to me, that is.

I just can't see how this can be considered a choke, especially given how clutch JJ consistently is.

A choke states that the pressure of a situation got the best of a player.

So is every missed clutch free throw a choke? That would imply that without pressure the players would shoot 100% in those situations which is flat out ridiculous.

It's obvious when someone is choking, when they can't hit anything in the 4th, make silly turnovers and dumb passes, and at the same time miss free throws. JJ clearly stepped up his game in the 4th and made some huge plays down the stretch.

I just want you and ex to know that Joe himself said that "the pressure was on, and I missed it." What exactly do you call that then? Not to mention, PP, as much as you may hate him, has achieved far more success with his knowledge of basketball than you guys, said it was a "choke". Not that it even matters, but you guys are just being absolutely blind and it's not a flattering look on either one of you. Bottom line, he missed the shot. He gets paid to make them. It is what it is.

I love JJ but he did choke. He had the ball in his hands with the game on the line. Not appropriate of Pierce but Joe did choke none the less.

Shhhh! Exodus might be listening!

That is great logic. That makes almost as much sense as saying KG is known as a clutch player when he has been known for his 4th quarter disappearing acts his whole career.

Funny how i haven't seen you posting much lately. I wonder why.

We've been over this. I have a life. And we've also been over this team's limitations as long as the ASG owns the team and Woody coaches them. I'll try to enjoy the ride, but but nights like last night, wear on you. Just like you've said that every point counts, well, so do the games. These losses will add up. We should have won last night's game. And it shouldn't have come down to Joe choking on one shot... that wasn't being defended... with the game on the line. lol!

Oh, I wish we had a player that could disappear like K.G. can!

It's all good, Ex. I'm happy for Joe that he has such fervent supporters!

6-8 minutes from Mutombo in the last quarter would have made a big differnce. Need to get the big fella.

You are right, I think. Don't hold your breath.

Seriously JJ scored 10 of his game high 20 pts in the last 7 minutes of the game yet somehow he choked.

:thumbsdownsmileyanim:

Too bad he needed 21, huh?

Dude, have you ever listened to sports radio in the NE? Seriously, listen to the Boston sports shows today, half the calls will be about how Doc Rivers sucks, how Garnett has lost a step, how Ray Allen couldn't guard a statue, and how PP disappears for long stretches. Every passionate fanbase is like that in the US. I find it refreshing that fans on this board are taking players, coaches, and ownership to task. Without the pressure from the fan-side the ASG has no real incentive to do something else.

Second, when a player "fails", like in missing a clutch free throw, people are going to remember that more than the bad play made at 6:13 of the 2nd quarter. Thus, the discussion of did JJ "choke" at the line last night.

FWIW, I think if you go with the definition that choking is failing to accomplish one's stated goal when the pressures on, then you could attribute the lable "choke" to JJ last night. But, you can also ascribe that label to every great NBA player in a host of games. Jordan has "choked", so has Duncan, Stockton, Malone, Magic, Bird, etc, etc, etc. Players fail, its part of the game and its what makes sports so much fun to watch. JJ is the Hawks player and I enjoy him being on the team.

That all said, that loss SUCKS!

GO HAWKS!

Totally agree with everything you've said, Frosgrim. I would add though, that no one has said that great players don't choke. That's a given.

LOL KG only had 12 pts with 4 minutes left when Smith picked up his 5th foul. He wasn't doing squat.

Well, those 12 were all off of excellent moves that none, and I repeat, none of our players have the capability of performing. He made the plays he had to, unlike some people last night.

lol, So is it every point counts, including those 12, or are certain points more critical? HMMM? Why are you acting like such a baby. Joe choked at the free throw line. Big Deal. He's got all year to win games. But to say the man didn't choke is more than ridiculous. And the way you are going about it is even more over the top. I'm sure you've never said anyone choked on a single play in your life, right? Get over it.

Actually, for all to see and behold, what exactly is a choke? Only in the context of a single game of basketball. What constitutes a choke to the great Exodus? Please inform us so that we might not make such mistakes in our judgement again. Because it's such a drag having to go through this over and over.

Well,he's been stabbed before.......

Too funny! You teed off on that one!

K.G. was really good tonight, by the way. He's arguably the most skilled big man in history. To me it's no argument. He is a freak. Sure would be nice to have someone you could really count on like that a number of times a game.

Boston is 6-3 over the last 9 but considering that Boston has escaped by the skin of their teeth he shouldn't get too cocky. He will, but he shouldn't. The Celtics have got to hope they don't see the Hawks in the playoffs. A team like Toronto would be MUCH more preferable for the Celtics.

That's easy to say. But you never know who players or coaches want to play for whatever reason.

Quoted for truth.

Marvin and JJ going 1-2 at the line down the stretch was a bad thing but the flaws in our offensive game plan are more serious thatn someone going 7-8 at the line.

I agree with both of you. This loss was really hard to stomach. As for whether Joe choked or not, it's obvious that he did. It's a free throw with less than 3 seconds left to tie the game. What else do you call it? I think some are missing the point that some plays are obviously more critical than others. You know, like the ones with no defense.

Somehow i doubt that TexasPete left because of the legend of Yi. Given our history of losing and management screw ups it shoudn't be surprising that some fans just lose interest.

Just saw this in the ASG. I wonder what part the ASG, and more specifically, Ted Turner's son and son-in-law, played in the days after the verbal agreement with McDavid was in place and how they convinced the people from Turner to sell to them. Here is the article.

Turner owes $281M in Hawks-Thrashers lawsuit

Texas businessman sued after teams, arena rights were sold to Atlanta Spirit group

By KRISTI E. SWARTZ

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Tuesday, December 09, 2008

A jury ruled Tuesday that Turner Broadcasting System owes Texas businessman David McDavid $281 million for a breach of contract when it negotiated with — and eventually sold — the Hawks, Thrashers and Philips Arena operating rights to another bidder.

The decision does not mean McDavid now owns the teams. They remain in the hands of the Atlanta Spirit, an eight-member group of investors.

An appeal by Atlanta-based Turner Broadcasting, which is owned by Time Warner, is possible.

“Even for Time Warner, (that amount) is something that will get people’s attention,” said Alan Gould, an analyst with Natixis Bleichroeder, an investment bank in New York.

McDavid signed a letter of intent with Turner to buy the teams and arena rights in April 2003. The letter, granting exclusive negotiations, expired 45 days later, but the parties continued to talk. Turner announced in September of that year it was selling the teams to the Spirit.

The investors included the son and son-in-law of Ted Turner, founder of the Atlanta-based media company.

McDavid sued the company for $450 million in Fulton County Superior Court, accusing executives of four misdeeds. They included breaking an oral contract to sell the teams and arena rights as well as sharing his confidential financial information with the Spirit.

In the unanimous verdict Tuesday, the jury said Turner owes McDavid $281 million for disregarding a verbal deal and $35 million for essentially breaking a promise. The two amounts cannot be added together because of complicated legal reasons, so McDavid’s side said it will pick the larger one.

The jury ruled against McDavid on the two other counts. It said Turner Broadcasting did not share confidential information and did not commit fraud.

“We’re just very glad to have our day in court,” McDavid said in the courtroom immediately after the verdict. “It’s been five long years. We’re glad that a jury of 12 Georgians saw the validity of our claim. To us, it was never about the money, it was about the principle.”

Misty Skedgell, a Turner Broadcasting spokeswoman, said the company will weigh its appeal options.

“We are disappointed with the decision of the court and the jury’s interpretation of the facts in what was a complex business transaction,” she said. “We will carefully consider all options, including appeal and will announce any plans at the appropriate time.”

The trial started in early October. The jury had been deliberating since last Wednesday.

“Nothing was easy; we were split 50-50 to start,” said Ashish Gogia, the jury foreman, outside the courtroom. “We all walked in today not thinking we could get it done today.”

The first amount the jury awarded — $281 million — primarily represents the fair market value of the teams at the time of the sale minus the amount McDavid would have paid for them.

“It was as if he had the sale, and they were his teams,” Gogia said.

During the trial, McDavid’s lawyers pointed to several things to show that Turner Broadcasting had an agreement with McDavid. That included: a letter from Turner to Time Warner’s board asking for approval to sell the teams to McDavid; a draft press release announcing the deal with McDavid; and reams of documents that represented a purchase-and-sale agreement. They said the Spirit group was unfairly favored because Ted Turner’s son Beau and son-in-law Rutherford Seydel were among its partners.

For their part, Turner’s attorneys said those company memos and press releases were standard operating procedure and that none of the documents between the company and McDavid were ever signed. And, Turner executives as well as a few Spirit investors who testified said they never spoke with Ted Turner about the deal.

Gogia said in the end, it was all about who was telling the truth. That, and witnesses for McDavid testifying that Turner Broadcasting CEO Phil Kent said on a telephone call, “We have a deal.”

“The plaintiff’s side seemed a lot more truthful in how they handled the business negotiations,” he said. “For the defense, it seems like a lot of people were not on the same page. The witnesses — they were not on the same page.”

— Staff writer Paul Donsky contributed to this article.

Do you have a concealed carry permit? If you do then you'd know that there is a rather in depth class that you have to attend which includes passing a written test and proving your ability to actually fire the gun. At least that's how it is in Texas.

The car analogy is as fitting as can be made here because you are advocating letting anyone that can get their hands on a gun to carry them in the streets concealed without any repercussions. Those people that are able to acquire a gun by non-legal means would not be taking a test to prove that they can handle the weapon.

No, I'm not. I'm advocating anyone who has purchased and registered a gun legally to be able to carry it wherever they so choose.

So, you don't have to prove your ability to know what to do with a gun in Texas? Only if you want to conceal it? That sounds bizarre.

There is no restriction against concealed weapons in Georgia. Only in certain places can you not carry your weapon.

In Texas, there are no restrictions as to who can buy and they do not have to be licensed or registered. Only to "carry" them. That seems a little ridiculous.

So should anyone be able to get behind the wheel of a car without needing a permit?

I'm a bit shocked to hear that you think anyone and everyone should be able to carry a concealed weapon whenever they want without needing to prove that they're competent which is basically what you're saying when you don't think a permit to do so is necessary.

Some of you guys are missing my point. You have to prove competence at the time of purchase. There is no test for who and who isn't qualified to put a gun under their shirt or not. Your car analogy doesn't work. You can't "hide" your car.

Wow. This is approaching Hall of Fame thread status. I feel like we need a forum where we move the best threads ever. Inaugural thread, anyone?

I mean, Smokey? Really? I mean, he's important, but ROFLOL. :lol6:

Swish, That is a nice idea. A Hall of Fame for threads. But this is just daily fluff, imo.

I'm not saying the gun should not be legal and registered. I'm saying he shouldn't have to "apply" to conceal one.

So, do you like the trade?

Sounds like Flowers is another Giombi. Wouldn't mind having that over Kotchman.

That said, the more I think about it, the more this seems like a good trade. Bobby Cox is one of the better eyes for talent in MLB. If he thought that Flowers wouldn't be that big of impact then I have to go with Bobby's evaluation.

Second, if Bobby likes Vasquez (per Troy), then that is a good enough endorsement for me.

The guys used to always talk about how Bobby raved over his stuff and ability to chew up innings. They mentioned it virtually every time he pitched against us. I like it. He could have a really big bounce back year. He's got 15-20 win talent. If we can add one more like a Burnett and squeeze a little more life from Smoltzie and Tommy, I think we could be in the thick of things, barring catastrophic injuries like last year.

I'm not sure a gun would have helped Steve Smith in that situation. Someone behind you is holding a gun to your head...I suspect the Giants are glad he didn't try to whip his own gun out and shoot the guy holding the gun to his head.

Generally, I am in favor of reasonable permit/license requirements for guns.

3.5 years does seem excessive for a legally purchased gun.

You are right, but I was only showing how you can come in close proximity to a life threatening situation. I personally don't carry a gun but I have no problem if everyone on the street is packing underneath. We're not addressing the underlying issue of why should you have to have a permit to conceal?