TroyMcClure

So if you have a bunch of pointless rules like fair-catching a punt allows you to take an uncontested field goal in football makes a better sport? Then let's start adding more stupid rules like being able to drop-kick a ball in order to complete a PAT attempt.

Give me a break, rules are just arbitrary and have no bearing as to whether or not a sport is complex. Strategies make a game complex. Its not my fault you cannot understand strategies in any other sport aside from football, that is why you have this redneck view on all other sports. You simplify soccer to make it seems like it has no strategy at all. However, the same thing can be done to football with how you described soccer.

Rules are just arbitrary and have no bearing on whether a sport is complex? That is the single dumbest thing ever typed on this site. Not even NBAsuperstar can top that!

I have not simplified it. It is... simple.

How do you implement strategy without ball control? The answer is that you really can only try. You can never actually do it.

Really silly that you cite an obscure rule in football, when you know that like 99% of the rules have a real, practical, easily applicable reason why they are there.

Please do the thing you are talking about with football. I'd love to see it.

How is basketball anymore complex than soccer or hockey? Those sports are all of similar complexity in my eyes. They involve similar issues in terms of pace, formation, system, etc. There are different nuances between each of the sports but there are not very dissimilar in terms of complexity, IMO.

Football and baseball are fundamentally different.

As for costs, I would need to see the numbers. For example, football at the OSU costs more than all other sports combined (33 total) including baseball. At UF, the baseball program takes 1/9 of the cost to run as the football program. Part of that is the college programs spending more on these, but my understanding is that the football teams require the largest proportion of the budget at the high school level as well.

It's more complex because of the pacing. It is a full court game with goals on opposite ends, true. However, you can actually, really control a basketball. That turns it into something different. It is much more enjoyable to see 4 guys run a break with no dribbling than it is to watch Beckham bend one so a guy can try a header. That would be like watching a basketball game where the only scoring came from alley - oops. Actually, that would be a lot more fun for me to watch! Also, the pivot foot and defender spacing, dribbling rules, illegal picks, legal picks. Free throws, 3 in the key, inbounding rules, shoy clock, etc. There are a ton of others. I used to ref basketball up to jv level and I've inquired about soccer. Other refs tell me that soccer is, by far, the easiest sport to ref.

on cost = The Football program at any school usually provides in upwards of 75% of the total revenue for the whole department, though.

Okay guys, what about hockey? If you've ever been to a live NHL game you know that this is the fastest and most violent sport bar none. I would imagine that the equipment costs are right up there with football. My feelings for hockey have skyrocketed this season after attending four games, though the local team fairly sucks.

Of course it's fast, they are skating for god's sake!

As far as cost, baseball because of many factors including tournaments and travel, is actually the most expensive. Hockey is right there, though. Then football.

As far as the sport being violent; it is but not to the extent of football. Really watch a game. They skate in circles and occasionally they hit one another near the boards or something. Hockey is a very physically gruelling game. No doubt. But the sport itself is not violent. In fact, they wear a whole lot more padding than football to protect themselves from a skate slash. They get violent when they fight like 6 yr olds, though. This is the lamest thing about hockey. It's just so lame.

That is pure ignorance right there.

American sports become "smarter" while sports like soccer remain the same dumb game? Give me a break TM, you romanticize American sports as if they were God's creation to mankind. If you can't see beauty in soccer then you tippify the stereotype of an American jackass who cannot think outside the box and clearly never wants to be outside the box.

Do I think football is complex? Sure. Did I play? Yes. Am I enamored so much as to discard every other sport as if they were trash? No. All sports have an aspect of complexity and greatness, its just the observer who either lacks or is capable of understanding what is great about a sport.

Nothing ignorant about what I've said. You, in turn have said nothing. Please explain to me the rules of soccer. It will only take you about 5 minutes, if that. I understand what people think is complex in soccer. I just think they are wrong and ignorant of greater games of intellect. There aren't a whole lot of decisions to be made in soccer. If you can't control the ball consistently, then you really can't implement any kind of strategy. You can try, and I guess the struggle is the beauty, right? Garbage, imo. Soccer is like a caveman game. Primitive brains forming rules to make something tough...Hey, let's not use any hands! Please. It's a simple game for simple people. Sorry if I've offended anyone, but I like complexity and rules in games. Soccer and Hockey just don't cut it.

I don't wave the flag on many things, but when it comes to sports, we are the smartest. We have evolved 3 sports to near perfection in just over a hundred years. What has the rest of the world done? Nothing.

Perhaps because of isolation, we were able to cultivate these sports. Europe has been much different over the last century. I'm not saying we're better people. We're just better sports people.

Football is so BORING to me, and it doesn't have the strategy that baseball does to make up for its lack of excitement. It's all the rage in certain areas of the U.S., but it's wisely ignored by the rest of the world.

There's a reason baseball, basketball, and soccer are international sports, but American football is not...

Yeah, they aren't evolved enough as a sporting culture to grasp a game like football. I'm really not being rude here, but it's obvious you've never even been to a football practice, much less know what it's like to play. I've played basketball against numerous college and professional players and can hold my own for a while. I played football my whole life, but there is no way that I could do that in football. Not just for the physical limitations either. The game is just too complex, as Dolfan alluded to. It's like when people say that rugby is sooo much tougher. Whatever, I get into it with Euros all the time over this. They just don't get it. Look at it like this, if you are running straight into someone without a helmet, are you going to slow up and move your head to the side, so as to not break your neck? Of course. This obviously lessens impact. A football player feels secure and runs straight through an opponent. It's a much more violent collision. Anyone who played football for any length of time knows this.

I don't find soccer even remotely close to "beautiful". It's an ugly game. One of the main allures to the American Sports is the complexity of the games. I find beauty in complexity. In organization. Games being taken to a perfection like baseball and football. Soccer is still the same game it was hundreds of years ago... When people were even dumber.

Personally, I like to watch pros actually executing the thing that makes them a pro. Like, I expect to see Chipper take good cuts, Ryan to throw a good ball, Smoove to do the right thing(yeah, right!). I want to see a skilled craftsman doing their job. I don't want to see the one or two guys who get a chance to take a shot on goal, have the moment repeatedly slip away because of the absolute inability to actually control the ball. That just isn't beautiful.

Neither is the idea of tying. That is just so, well, so... euro.

Sorry if my tone is harsh, but I played football for a long time and it is without doubt, the most complex sport. It's also the most physical. Therein lies the appeal.

4 give aways is what lost the game. Not Brooking.

Letting AZ establish the run is what lost us the game. Not Brooking

Our O-line having one of their worst games is what lost us the game. Not Brooking.

I hope you understand that no one is disputing those things. It seems by your tone that you don't though. Brooking did take away any chance at victory. He had a simple assignment and could not perform it. if he stays with the te, we either get a sack or a check down. He was trying to do Lofton's job and we lost any chance of stealing a victory. Brooking is just beyond pedestrian. A special player makes a play when given the chance and doesn't miss basic assignments. Brooking missed the mark on both counts. That was the singular point i was making about the game. Your second reason has a whole lot to do with Brooking, by the way.

Agreed. Basically any defender closer than 15 yards from the line of scrimmage needed to be going after the QB. Just a terrible play call from the coaches on the most critical play of the game. The bad thing is that it wasn't a play that came on suddenly or that the coaches should have had to think about. They needed to make Warner miss, pound him into the ground, or make him throw the ball to someone short of the needed distance. The play was not designed to do any of those things. (If it was to make Warner miss, the LBs could have been DBs playing deeper to take away meaningful pass routes. If it was to get after Warner, the LBs should have been going after him. If it was to make him throw the ball short, there should have been immediate pressure generated on the play to encourage a quick slant or dump off throw that could be tackled short of the first down line.) That was very tough to stomach for me.

Diesel - the bad part is that Arizona is going to get pounded next week and look nothing like the team they were yesterday. That will make it an extra stomach punch for the way they destroyed our running game.

I agree with blitzing, AHF, but the call was sound, imo. The players were not. If Brooking does the job he's paid millions of dollars to, it's a different situation. Lofton had his responsibility covered. I'm still too disgusted to get into why we lost (there were a number of reasons), but the play in discussion is all about Keith Brooking being one of, if not the most overrated defensive players to ever step on a field. He was horrible 10 years ago, he was horrible when moronic players, looking at stats, voted him to pro bowls, and he's horrible now. He is both soft and stupid. Just a terrible player. Pulling a guy down 7 yards downfield as he's running over you, aren't exactly the tackles I'd like to see from a LB, but that's just me, you know?To be honest, maybe it was good that he was exposed in such a way. I'm not just reacting here. I've always felt this way about him. He's just, and I hate this term, I really do, but he's just a scrub of the highest order. I never thought he tried as hard as was portrayed. He has never liked contact and that's sort of like a receiver who doesn't like to catch. He's just terrible... and stupid on a football level, as everyone now knows.

i think that every now and then bruce levenson gets one of his interns to put a message up on hawksquawk.net and realgm.com,

but as for actually posting, no. there might be somebody that works for the PR department that actually reads up on us though.

What makes you think they can afford interns? And who would work for the ASG without pay? Does it really help a resume if the company you interned for lost millions of dollars a year? JK, but really?

I think it has to do with his small hands. He can't palm the ball, so when he goes to slam he has to cradle the ball. That is really hard to do in traffic, hence the layups.

Kevin Willis used to do this too and it was due to his small hands.

That is it. That's why he has control issues dribbling as well.

To answer your question, teke: No, I did not believe they could win so often. Still don't to some extent. It's a long season. But it's nice to be playing this competently.

Are you even a Hawks fan or just a troll? I've never seen you say one positive thing about this team. Maybe you just forgot to take your meds and your a deeply depressed person. Which is it?

So, you've been a member for 6 + years and this is the first you've heard of Hotlanta's attitude? You call him a troll, yet you never post and felt the need to do so over... what exactly? Seriously, that's like the 1,000th "hotlanta is a troll" post. It's really lame. Focus on what he says, not what you think you know about what he's thinking.

So close to a bye and a home game. But at least we're headed west, not north. I guess I'll take it (reluctantly).

Dallas v Philly is win-and-in. Should be fun.

I'm going to miss most of that one. I'm a big Favre fan. And I haven't really watched Miami much this year. That's the game for me. All of the games are at channelsurfing.net, though.

Woo Hoo! Man, that was close. Just as we won, Carolina kicked a game winner. Could have been really good. Arizona is still a good bet.

I've never seen that little elf before. I know most of the Refs by name, too. That was one of, if not the worst job of officiating, that I've ever seen. First, they didn't make a call on the field after Turner's run. Then they allowed the Rams to lobby them. Then they said it was a fumble. Then, with clear evidence in the booth to overturn, he rules that it was a fumble. I'm disgusted. I can't stand it when the integrity of the game is ruined because of incompetence. I almost want to turn off the tv. Just disgusted. Even more so because Turner should have switched the football to his outside arm in the open field. It's a basic thing that is taught for this very reason. We're about to lose this game and be forced to go to Chicago or to Minnesota again. This sucks.

One more, WTF is the line judge? We have had very few penalties all year. Then, within a matter of plays, we had two false starts on different te's? WTF? We're getting jobbed here. To be fair though, we have had very good officiating all years, save the play against the Eagles. Still, I'm absolutely efiing enraged. It was either type or bust my damn tv.

Tex wished he was half the hitter.

I feel the same way. Actually though, they have basically identical stats over the last 5 years or so. It's a matter of when you get the hits in baseball. Manny has had a much greater impact for his teams. I'm not wishing injury on anyone, but if the Yanks had 4 or 5 guys go down with acl injuries, I think the world would collectively say " serves them right", no?

I would say these statements, especially the one in bold, could also be interpreted as an argument for the existence of a God. Because it is so difficult to wrap our heads around our existence and the infinite expanse of the universe, it almost compels us to look at the possibility of a higher power.

But, I digress. We have once again swayed :offtopic2:

More to the original point, I think we can all agree that Matt Ryan is the 2nd coming and that the end is near.

And, for at least this coming Sunday............GEAUX (s)AINTS!!!!!!!!

We can move this discussion later. For now, you are right. He is the second coming. But he better get a lot done before 2012!lol! I like the geaux saints thing! I'm a big Marino fan, though. I hope they win and he falls just short of the mark.

Atheist, troy?

Look around...how can there not be a God? (And I will leave it there because wrong place wrong time to start that one!)

Just think about the "existence doesn't make sense" part. Really, think about it. It's a quantum physics thing, but is a basic concept to understand. The earth is finite. Once you get to outer space, there is no end. It's impossible. It's not like in a cartoon where Bugs Bunny hits a brick wall in space. It can't end. Existence just doesn't make scientific sense. If say, a god created a universe... where was he when he created it? So, from that angle you can see how the idea of a god or multiple gods just seems so silly and earthbound. The universe is huge, man. So huge that it doesn't end.

Better question...If last years roster was so bad how come they took the champs to 7?

Oh, and you saying Woody is better than Rivers completly overshadows your love for the Dude. :slap1:

He said what? He probably loves the Eagles, too! Last year's roster was worse than this one. The subtraction of Childress and the maturation of Horford and Marvin alone make this year's better.

I agree with you 100% but the more I watch this team the more I think that we've decided to live and die by the 3. We saw guys go inside effectively yesterday but we're still counting on the 3 to bail us out when we're down. It seems like most of the plays we run are designed to open someone up at the 3 point line.

Most of the plays. LOL! Like we have an abundance.

i cant take away what we have done so far. But as long as he is the coach we are not going to win a title anytime soon

As long as he coaches, there will be disapointment on some level. Just imagine a really good team like Utah. Now imagine if Woody coached them.

How do you know that has nothing to do with it?

Because existence makes no sense and the idea of a God makes even less sense. But that's just my opinion. To each their own... god that is.

It's pretty absurd that he gets so much flack when we have the record we do. I don't like the guy but he has to be given some credit for what we've done. If not him . . . . . . who gets the credit?

Uhh... the players.

"Fans" that constantly hate on the teams best player and never have anything positive to say just invite abuse. I just accept the invitation.

So, am I "constant" or not posting? which is it?

The sad thing is we can't even have a debate about anything Joe related if you are involved.

Also, do you even realize that I wasn't really a part of this, I just thought you were being such a bully that I had to respond? You just jumped in and started name calling. That's what you do. No "I wasn't even talking to you, why are you saying this?" You didn't even notice because the substance of an argument is irrelevant to you. You just attack the poster. you are a real bore. It's so sad you aren't a Wizards fan by now. But then again, we've been over this, you aren't a Hawks fan, you're an Exodus fan.

Keep digging. Like i said you are the last person to be talking about insults.

Interesting that you call yourself a fan but somehow can't find anything positive to say about a team that is 4th place in the East.

:laughing5:

What's not interesting is that you call yourself a Hawks fan, yet go out of your way to fight with other Hawks fans, even ones other than me. It's just boring and sad for the rest of us.

Thanks for proving my point.

Speaking of the first day you got here your very first post on the site was calling someone an idiot.

How does that prove your point? You do act like a baby on a regular basis, not to mention you are extremely disrespectful to people who have been nice to you. We're supposed to be Hawks fans and friends on this board. you just use this place to put other people down. And your opinion of your own opinion is just...sad. You are basically just a jerk.

Sweet of you to remember my first day, but again, you are wrong. I asked someone if they were an idiot? Which is a little different. See, I assumed but wasn't sure so I asked. With you, there is no more need to ask.