Sasquatch

Sure the record in the pre-season doesn't mean anything but last nights game also doesn't mean anything, no matter how bent out of shape people want to get about it. It's our final pre-season game, on the road, against a superior team, on the final night of a back to back. We whipped Orlando in their house to start last regular season and that didn't mean anything in the grand scheme of last season so I really am not going to get bent out of shape over a game that we clearly weren't too concerned about and even though that fact disappoints me, I won't let it get me upset unless that type of effort starts happening in the regular season.

1) It's our final preseason game - Check

2) On the road - Check

3) Against a superior team - Check

4) Final night of a back to back - Check

We're so used to making excuses for this team we can quote them like scripture.

So there you have it... The gospel according to Dolfan... Book one verse one unlimited paper back edition

I respect you as a person but right now you sound like a public defender...

A prepackaged generic opening and closing statement that always sounds the same... but why?

because it doesn't matter

It's not gonna change your pay rate...

It's not gonna change expectations

It's the Hawks

Good post SQ...but I agree with Buckeye some too. Obviously our players took this game lightly - but they got embarrassed on ESPN. My son is a rugby player and he doesn't care whether it's pre-season or regular season or the state playoffs - he always wants to kick some butt to establish who he is.

On the other side of the coin, we just can't match up with ORL size-wise any more.

Thanks for the props.

Just consider this.

You really think this is just about size match-ups?

The Magic shot 61% from the floor and 62% from the 3-pt line.

Here's what I want you to do. Tell me what % you think they would shoot from the 3-pt line if you or I were out there?

Honestly? Probably not much more than 62%

Why? Because, even if nobody is guarding them they ain't gonna shoot much more than 62% from 3.

That's what we saw last night. A team that performed as if they were not out there.

Not to mention... Since you brought up size.

Our starters are actually bigger than them at every spot except center!

Bibby is two inches taller and 5lbs heavier than Nelson.

Joe is 20 lbs bigger than Carter.

Marvin is 3 inches and 25 lbs bigger than Pietrus.

Josh Smith and Anderson are a wash but in the regular season, Josh is 10 lbs bigger than R. Lewis.

Howard is the only spot where they are bigger.

I think it is clear that there is an element here where we have just gotten used to making excuses.

I think the fact that people have repeatedly said the Magic are bigger when, in fact they are not, just shows that they played bigger!

That points to heart.

They are gutless.

Overreact much? Ok the pre-season means something. What was our record this pre-season?

One game vs. the best team in the East least year and they shot better than lights out. On a back to back nonetheless in the pre-season where conditioning is a primary focus. Over the course of 82 games, blowouts will happen.

Unbelievable.

This guy just read my post. Then quoted my post.

Then what's the first thing he asks?

... "what was our record this preseason"

If you don't listen to anything else listen to this... the American educational system ain't jack.

My goodness. The record is the one thing that is irrelevant.

Nobody is upset that they lost. It's the flip flops and jeans around the ankles routine that has played itself out time and time again that is the problem.

The record is the one thing that does not count in the preseason and that's the one thing you point to?

Listen to me.

When you hear a person say "preseason means nothing"...

That person does not know what he is talking about. That person is not a thinker. That person is not worthy of your attention.

You see. The preseason does mean something. In fact, it means a heck of a lot. Not only that, it tells you a heck of a lot.

Firstly, you can win or lose a job in preseason. You can win or lose a starting spot in preseason. You can set a tone for your team in preseason. So when a person tells you preseason means nothing, it tells you a lot about them. They are either a fan that is not knowledgeable or a player that is indifferent.

Sure, it is conceivable that the Lakers could get beat by 20+ in the preseason. But it is not conceivable that Kobe is gonna role over in the preseason. I mean, let's be clear. If the Lakers get beat by 20+, it was the reserves that got smoked. Kobe ain't goin -20 in the +/- column nowhere, no time, no place (at least, that's what his mindset is). You not gonna laugh at Kobe from the bench in preseason, a pick-up game, where ever...

You think Kenyon Martin will let you push him or one of his teammates just because it's preseason? See how fast your lip swells up and then ask again.

You see. There is only one thing that does not count in preseason. That thing is who won or who lost. Everything else still counts.

You not gonna run the court in preseason? Well, you probably not runnin the court in practice. You probably not runnin the court in the offseason. Does one count for more or less than the other?

News flash.

If you gettin' punked in preseason. You gonna get punked in the regular season.

You see, the reason you can't slap Kenyon Martin in the preseason or laugh at Kobe from the bench in preseason is because, even though the win/loss does not count, they themselves count and the preseason is not going to change who they are or sully their reputation. You push Kenyon Martin and it's on. Not only does he not care if it's preseason or regular... he does not care whether you get the best of him or not... but you better be ready to whip his *## 'cause he's gonna walk that line.

Last night meant something. Believe me.

The Magic left that building knowing they gave the Hawks something to think about before their next game.

You think joe said somethin?

Yeah right

There is always a line to be walked.

I know it's only preseason...

I'm canceling the parade

Something tells me Sasquatch won't be cheering JJ anytime. He has "hater" written all over him. There are people like that on Sekou's blog - there's a resident Bibby hater, Horford hater, and Marvin hater. My guess is that he is a JJ hater, and it'll never be out of his system.

Correct.

As of tonight I am officially a joe hater. No doubt. So what next.

Yall can support that chump.

Preseason my butt. They just got humiliated on national tv. The Magic were laughing at them. I bought tickets. And that chump can't play like he belongs.

I don't know how many times y'all have to see this garbage but I have seen enough.

I am a joe hater.

I hate joe

I am cool wit everybody else on this team (reserve the right on Woodson). I love the ownership. I love Sund.

joe is a wuss

he has got skill but he has no heart

You got to be hot or cold with me. joe is luke warm... indifferent... garbage

While I do think we are overreacting a tad bit, JJ is definitely not worth the MAX.

It's not overreacting when you see the same joe roll over every time we play a strong opponent. Sure somebody has to lose. The question is... does somebody have to roll over?

Why do we have to see them roll over?

Because joe blows

Did I read the box score correctly? Jeff Teague was 0 for 15. Are you kidding me? You have to be a hell of a chunker to go o for 15. Holy crap, that ought to be a record. You would think your brain would click at some point and you woudl think, STOP SHOOTING THE BALL.

Hawk88

Who is getting paid the big money?

Howard, Carter, and Nelson come out and set a tempo for their team and everybody else catches fire.

Teague ain't the problem. If there was a leader out there he would be shooting better than 0 for ? and nobody would be complaining about his form.

I knew about his form from youtube. Nobody complains until these punks roll over.

It's joe

You stink joe

I hate that ******

Randolph Morris just got straight punked by D Howard on that turnaround Jumpshot attempt.

Why'd we keep that guy over Fatman Siler again?

Oh.... Sekou says he's twice as skilled as Siler.

You know what?

I am cool with Randolph. He is trying to guard the guy. He knows he can stop Howard or the dunks, but he is still challenging every shot. Dwight made 15 posters on him but Randolph is gonna make him make another one.

Randolph is not the guy making 14-15 mil.

Randolph didn't turn to a huge contract.

joe is gobage.

gutless joe

I rather lose with Crawford. I know he will strike back.

I've never seen a player that I liked less than Joe Johnson. Dude is a low percentage chunker.

For me it is not about the percentage.

Look at Flip. People loved Flip and he did not always shoot a good percentage but you knew this guy had heart. You might be a better player but you are gonna know you played against a man.

joe will take his own pants down

LOL . . and here it comes.

(( passing "the man" torch from JJ to Crawford, and watch us lose 50 games ))

JJ definitely stunk up the joint tonight. No doubt about that. That doesn't mean give the rock to Gunner #11

Man damn joe.

I see you do not have a problem being embarassed.

This is not the first time we have a game against a strong opponent and get humiliated and it starts with joe.

If I lose... I lose.

But I will be damned if I let somebody humiliate me. joe is at the center of it... passive.

I would rather lose with Crawford firing back than watch that ***** roll over.

How in the hell can you sneeze at an offer in the off season and then punk out on the court.

You can bow down to him if you want... but I just turned on him tonight.

I am sick of this same story. I am not mad about the loss. I am mad about the humiliation.

joe can go to hell

I told you this LONG ago.

ok then I blame you!

You should have reminded me. I spent all week waiting to watch this garbage.

The Magic players are laughing at these punks from the bench.

National tv. Embarassing.

How can you see them laughing at you and still not give a hard foul, especially on that behind the back pass that Williams did on the break.

They are gutless and soft with no pride.

For those of you who do not live in Atlanta, you can get your first look at Crawford/Teague/Joe Smith in a Hawks uniform.

Somebody screwed the pooch

I think it is pretty obvious from tonight's game that joe is not going to be "the man" on this team.

If someone who never saw or read anything about basketball saw this game, they could not tell you a single one of joe's attributes. He is just gutless. At least Crawford has a made up mind. It is obvious what he is thinking...

"Nobody on this court can guard me. Whether or not I score is just a matter of me making the shot. Whoever is guarding me is toast."

joe? Not so much.

That smell is joe.

Boy...

I sure am glad somebody started this thread. Because if I would have had to lead it off, it would have been laced with profanity.

How in the hell can you be intimidated in preseason?

They play like punks. I could see it in the first two possessions. I am cool with Howard being the best player on the floor. But joe is being out played by Vince Carter and this Alexander guy. Not to mention the embarassing fast break play where some guy I never seen before ran out alone 1 on 2 against joe and Bibby. He not only disrespected them by shooting the ball against the two of them. He then got his own rebound over them.

These punks... Teague RUNS THE COURT and gets an outstanding block and the Magic simply rebound and score because nobody else is running the court.

Crawford was the only one that did not seem scared. He may not have good stats but at least nobody is gonna punk him out of his game (for better or worse). The Magic are shooting like 80% from 3pt land and it is because they feel completely unthreatend.

Towards the end they were in the half court set with Crawford hanging out on the perimeter while they spent infinity trying to let joe post up. Damn joe. Give the ball to somebody that's not scared. Let joe get his when he changes his diaper.

To add salt to the wound... Running the clock down at the end of the half. Crawford is dribbling... and omg! Josh Smith comes out to set a ******* pick. Are you kidding me? Crawford does not need a pick to beat this guy or anybody else on their roster off the dribble. Let me guess. They double Crawford force the pass to Josh who is more than willing the "jack it where he catch it"

Stupid.

Can you believe this!

This is an outrage!

We been talkin' bout... practice...

all this time and this is the gratitude we get?

http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-hawks-blog/2009/09/27/practice-beyond-closed-doors/?cxntfid=blogs_atlanta_hawks_blog

Wow!

Have they no shame?

No Big Ray! No!

we sittin here, i'm supposed to be franchise player.....

What y'all talkin' 'bout?

we talking about practice

Man y'all trippin.

I'm tryin to make a point here and y'all cats talkin bout... practice.

...Practice...

We trying to get to the next level and some of our stiffest competition is gonna be in... practice.

That's what we talkin' bout... practice!

Not the game... Not the game...

We talking bout... practice

You think I wanna see the hawks play some fools called the Knicks?

You think I wanna pay to see the hawks play some clowns called the Timberwolves?

...Sacremento?

...I wanna see these cats practice.

I wanna see Teague, JC, Mo (Stack), Joe Smith, ZaZa/Jason Collins make a run at the starting line up. I think they can raise the ante on them.

That's what I'm talkin' about... practice.

25% of our stiffess competition is gone be in... practice.

Not the game... practice.

How in the hell they gone stop us, when we can't beat ourselves... in practice!

Let me get this straight.

Bibby, JJ, Marvin, Smoove, and Horford are gonna be practicing against Teague, Crawford, Mo (?Stack), Joe Smith, and ZaZa/Jason Collins...

...We talkin bout practice!

Practice!

...We talkin bout practice!

We ain't even talkin bout the game...

...We talkin bout practice!

How in the hell can the rest of the league stop these teamates when they practin against each other?

We got a team that finished 4th in the conference last year and I would not feel comfortable betting my mortgage that the starting unit could take better than a 60-40 split in games against the backups.

Suffice it to say that I believe the practices will be a lot more intense and productive this year. I think the intensity during games will increase as a result as well as the "basketball I. Q."

READ.

P.S. It's unedited.

I haven't heard any word on Joe practicing at all, there aren't any articles on him trying to improve his game. Its Josh, Marvin, and Horf that usually have articles printed about them improving their games.

Hmm. Interesting.

I don't think he has quit the team, so I kinda assumed he is still a member of the team.

Are the hawks not going to practice this year?

A Knicks fan just commented on Crawford (in the same ajc blog):

As someone who watched every game Jamal Crawford played for the Knicks, and someone who has absolutely no malice towards the Hawks (all the while recognizing that players do change sometimes), allow me to fill you in on what you’re probably getting.

Crawford will come to training camp and say all the right things about playing hard, playing smart, doing what the coach asks, accepting whatever role is given to him, just coming to fit in, etc.

Then when the lights come on, you’ll get a tremendously gifted scorer who is streaky, forces way too many shots, shoots a low percentage, can pass a little and plays no defense whatsoever.

Part of the problem in NY is that he played for Isiah Thomas, who basically just rolled the ball out and let his scorers do as they pleased. The end-of-game strategy consisted of nothing more than handing the ball to Crawford for some shake-and-bake followed by an off-balance 25-footer with a hand in his face. He’ll even make them occasionally.

The Bulls got rid of him because he was too wild, the Knicks got rid of him because he makes too much money for too long, and can’t catch and shoot (he absolutely must dribble thru his legs 2-3 times and take a few baby steps while palming the ball before launcing the J, and pouted when D’Antoni’s system didn’t call for that) and even a freestyler like Don Nelson had no use for him.

On the other hand, I always thought his best year – though not statistically – was the year Larry Brown coached the Knicks. He actually played with some intelligence that year, didn’t force as many shots, and even got into a defensive stance a time or two. So maybe he is coachable in the right situation.

I say beware a guy this skilled who is on his 4th team before his 30th birthday – all via trade – and has never been on a playoff team. If he plays a role any bigger than the one Flip Murray had, that might not be a good thing.

I hope I’m wrong.

ok well Larry Brown says good things about him. I like that.

Chauncey Billups played for a lot of teams too. He aint exactly garbage. A lot of people think highly of him.

Let me get this straight.

Bibby, JJ, Marvin, Smoove, and Horford are gonna be practicing against Teague, Crawford, Mo (?Stack), Joe Smith, and ZaZa/Jason Collins...

...We talkin bout practice!

Practice!

...We talkin bout practice!

We ain't even talkin bout the game...

...We talkin bout practice!

How in the hell can the rest of the league stop these teamates when they practin against each other?

We got a team that finished 4th in the conference last year and I would not feel comfortable betting my mortgage that the starting unit could take better than a 60-40 split in games against the backups.

Suffice it to say that I believe the practices will be a lot more intense and productive this year. I think the intensity during games will increase as a result as well as the "basketball I. Q."

I had the passing thought yesterday as I left work and saw the Joe Smith news to post something of this nature.

When in doubt always ask yourself WWBKD?

What Would Billy Knight Do?

Sheeeesh. Nice job Rick Sund.

"WWBKD"

Wow.

You know... This is why I have the utmost respect for Sund as a GM and a person. It would have been very easy for him to try to propel this narrative. However, he has been above it from the start. This is a GM that is focused on winning not demonization.

1) It would have been all too easy for him to come in and say, "you know what? The talkin heads and fringe lunatics are right. BK stinks and was worthless. I'm gonna blow this team up. "

2) Nope! This GENERAL did the opposite. He refused to let people throw sand in his eye. He made his own analysis and concluded that the most important thing was to keep this thing going. DESPITE THE LUNATIC FRINGE ASSERTIONS.

3) Made no attempt to "put his own stamp on the team". Here is a guy that is so confident and has such vision he has resigned every starter that BK brought here (and left them as the starter). Furthermore, he has made his number one priority to be resigning or retaining the rights to as many of BK's players as possible.

4) In his own way has given the utmost props to BK without stirring controversy and hate (despite opportunistic hateration beyond his control). Here is a guy that undoubtedly gets one of the highest GM grades this summer and DESERVES it! Yet every new acquisition that he has brought in is a bench player. This guy treats BK picks like gold. He is selfless. I respect him for that.

As for the original question. That's an easy one. Nobody has done a better job than Sund.

I have another question though.

Name one GM in the NBA whose draft picks and aquisitions have been retained on the roster as much as BK's: AND the team continues to get better, AND have no character issues. Name one GM that has retained the rights to as many of his own players as BK's (not to mention having another GM come in and retain them).

Great job Sund!

Great job Billy Knight!

Truly. The thing speaks for itself!

I have always been suspicious of that team. However, I was suspicious of D. Howard and J. Nelson. They both turned into tanks after coming into the league. I will say that I seem to recall Nelson being somewhat stout in college. Lewis surprises me though, but hey, he is in the same locker room.

There I said it.

Okay, let's say that is true. Who do we get to even make it to the playoffs let alone get a chip if we don't sign Joe? And honestly who is this player in the NBA who's won a title without a lot of help? Not Lebron, Kobe, Wade, Garnett, Duncan, or Shaq. So who else you got?

Thank you.

I wish people would realize that Joe is actually being gracious by being open to discussion. He knows he is going to get his money. Whatever he agrees to early will likely be less than he would get if he waited until the end of next year. I do not think Lebron is even entertaining any talks of extension.

I appreciate Joe.