Sasquatch

As a moderator if you have a different point of view just express your point of view. Don't tell me "I'm the moderator" and then tell me what someone meant to say when... he said what he said... To make matters worse... you go on to pick up the rest of the argument for him If you are going to be some type of adjudicator it is patently insane for you to say or claim to know what someone meant to say... and then speak on their behalf As for your assertion that there was nothing of substance in my post... the fact that you knew exactly what the errors were that I was referring to and went on to correct them yourself proves that there was substance there... Not only substance, but basketball substance... My response was completely about basketball and the fact that what he said was not true... I find it particularly ridiculous that there are a number of posters here who almost never post anything related to basketball and their lethargic comments are their signature... Yet you let that slide... If you are going to moderate then moderate... If you want to take a point of view then take a point of view... But to promote a clique-like atmosphere which is already rampant on this board is contemptible... To flash your "moderator badge" in an effort to embellish your view of Billy Knight is equally farcical

This is full of outright lies. I won't even discuss the lies as it would only dignify this nonsense... none of it is true, from beginning to end When I see this type of dishonesty and deception in a post... I know the rest is not worth reading

OMG... You are gonna channel Jerry West now? Why don't you give us a brief chronology of the state of the Memphis Grizzlies when Jerry West left that franchise in ashes Why would you even touch that... That's bad strategy if you are anti-BK No sane person would even begin to question the assertion that the Grizzlies were in excellent shape and on the upswing when BK left them for the Hawks... Jerry West waltz's in... get's his pound of flesh off of BK's work and proceeds to burn the franchise to ashes... That team is so desperate in his wake... They signed Allen Iverson this off-season Bad move my friend

Yeah... I don't get that either... How did the TEAM benefit from those picks It is a beautiful example of what is so exasperating about the BK hate... It's like hey, this guy and that guy got picked, but there is no regard for the composition of the TEAM

When Billy leaves, you will be better than you were before he got there. I think Billy's formula works too... But there is often a political component to sports and BK does not play that game... He wont be nice to ignorant sports talk hosts (790 the zone - the authors of the BK hate mongering) He wont make picks to satisfy a thirst for moral victories... He wants the TEAM to get better... Ours is

Dude... I was goin back and forth with this dlpin cat... He's good... got guts... stays on topic.. Put his list of GM's out there while others were stalling and making excuses... I saw that list of teams you put up... We were looking at specific General Managers to try to establish some standard of measurement for individual GM's which I have never seen done in the BK hate parade... Listing franchises is a little different... For example, I do not think Danny Ainge drafted Chauncey Billups... If you are going by franchises why stop a six... Why not do all of them... How do you compare the performance of a franchise and use it to establish a standard for an individual B.T.W. I did not say BK was an "outstanding" drafter. I maintain that he did a good job and that the hateful rhetoric directed at him is unwarranted and baseless. It is understandable if you reflect and wonder what if we had this player or that player... I am sure the GM's themselves do that all the time... It is quite another thing when you deny the productivity that you have in an effort to aggrandize that thing which you do not have

Offer to cede accepted It's been a pleasure... You are an excellent rival. "To whom does Calahorra belong... "

Disappointing I had come to expect more from you Certainly if you are building through the draft from the bottom up it will take time for those players to develop Your "point" here seems to place more emphasis on how fast a player or plan develops (ie whether someone or something developed or evolved before BK actually left) As opposed to whether it develops over all For example, what's more gratifying The short-lived fandangle you get from a Jamal Tinsley (the path Walsh chose) Or the sustained excellence of a Kobe Bryant even if it means a little bit of a wait... I could see if we had become accustomed to overnight sports successes and oh... i don't know... WINNING here in the ATL... home of the demanding sports fan and sold out arenas Give me a break It's just another not so oblique attempt to distract from the fact that the roster constructed by Billy Knight has done very well the last two years, is expected to do well this year And is clearly expected to get even better in years to come... Meantime... Chris Paul's team stinks, they are losing, in fact the overall quality of the of the team's productivity is decaying in spite of the fact that they are several million over the cap Oh yeah... his coach just got fired I'm not the one calling CP3 a coach killer... but "his coach just got fired" Not to mention... he is getting harangued by Rajon Rhondo now How much longer before this guy is no longer even part of the national conversation any more... And we are only 4 yrs into his career I thought the trajectory was supposed to be in the opposite direction And you really want me to ignore the achievements of this franchise for that? You can worship Donnie Walsh and castigate Billy Knight to your own heart's delight... At the end of the day... Walsh's record shows that in 20+ years as a General Manager 1) The best player he ever drafted was Reggie Miller... 2) He passed on Kobe Suffice it to say that if: "passing on Kobe" became a sports idiom... Billy Knight certainly did not... ahem... "pass on Kobe" my friend

Damn Who the heck is this guy? Calm, cool, collected Part of the opposition of course But we may end up with some constructive discourse hear after all

Ok but Josh has an efficiency rating of 23 and is shooting almost 60% from the field. Nobody hates a "Smoove" jumper more than I do I count them as turnovers But if he is shooting in that paint he has a green light from me I will never complain about a shot he takes in the paint And how many and1's does this guy have this season I just don't think you can ignore leaving a pile of money on the table and waking up one morning and finding all these "new developments" That said I still felt good about what I actually heard (not read) from JJ regarding the matter after the Nuggets game I think hearing JJ gives you a better context than reading his quotes

Refreshing

Well when are you ever gonna have the guts to make a point. All of your comments are the same... A chirp hear... An interuption there You obviously don't want to make an assertion out of fear you might get run Your comments are consistently the most lethargic of them all

Why does he have to show rings? He said he appreciates BK. You guys chimed in any wanted to trash BK and had the audacity to say that the Bulls and Thunder have drafted better... Ok... Prove it... Where are their rings? I am not trashing them They may be doing quite well But they certainly are not doing better than the Hawks... So for you to just crassly assert that they drafted better means nothing

There's a big difference between missing on a multiple championship winner (KOBE) vs. a guy that could have won you a couple of more regular season games (CHRIS PAUL) You can split hairs and introduce as many contingencies and provisions that you chose The fact is... The players Billy Knight picked make up one of the most promising line ups in the NBA, both for the present and the future, with great character... This example shows that any misses Billy Knight may have had are equaled or dwarfed by misses that others had Even the most esteemed of them Don't go through contortions to make the claim that a single individual missing on: Kobe Bryant, Tim Hardaway, Steve Nash, Gilbert Arenas, Manu Ganobli, Sam Cassell, Shawn Kemp, Germaine O'neal and more... is some how less of a big deal (I got tired of researching especially since any reasonable person would accept that this is a pretty impressive list of swing and misses) That coupled by the fact that your best pick is Reggie Miller? You keep stating, well he did not have as many high picks... Well that's just another excuse and a contingency He missed a helluva lot of good players regardless of where he was picking If you want to introduce that exception, I could introduce exceptions of my own... 1) Billy inherited a worse team and franchise 2) Billy's ownership group was not willing to spend money on free agents that would have gotten us out of the lottery quicker... Fact is, just getting out of the lottery is not some huge feat... You can bring in a bunch of marginal veterans and get yourself out of the lottery Indiana, as a franchise, made many moves like this, One of which cost them a chance to draft Michael Jordan (i don't blame Walsh for this) Doesn't do much for your franchise or the future of your team... It's just a moral victory... Not to mention there were a slew of years that the Pacers traded out of the first round all together In addition... I am not sure if that position makes it better or worse for Walsh. In other words, for example If you are picking at the top of the draft with a lot of great talent, great resumes, great attributes over all with a lot of different players I can see how that might explain why you could miss on someone like Gilbert Arenas for example... But when you are down as far as the 27th pick of the NBA draft? Let's get real! All that talent and debris is off the board and you still miss a guy like that and you want to use that as a qualifier? It should not take much back and forth to understand that the higher up you pick in the draft the more likely someone picked after your guy might be better But when you are down to the bottom of the barrel I just don't see how you could miss out on a boat load of guys like that... And we talkin about chris paul and brandon roy... There is a very real possibility that neither paul or roy will ever make it to the conference final much less the NBA Finals... The Hawks current roster is close than they are... This is just an empty argument... The only reasonable thing to do is concede that to judge BK soley on who he did not draft, with no recognition of the current state of the roster and franchise is ridiculous... Especially when, you yourself, pointed out qualifications for Walsh's misses of which there are undoubtedly many I like debating you... you use facts that can be discussed rather than exchanging personal barbs

BK is criticized for "what could have been" Don't move the goal post Gotta give you props though... You stepped up to the plate and put your chips on the table... I like that... This feels like a real debate

I'm gonna start with Walsh... I personally think Walsh is a very good General Manager... HOWEVER... That is based on my own standard of judging general managers, where you look at what the team is doing Unfortunately... BK is being criticized for "what could have been", "who we could have had"... So according to y'alls standard, your impression of Walsh should not be as good as mine... You see, if you composed a team of who Walsh did not draft and compared it to who he did draft, the Pacers "would have" won championship after championship... With players he did not draft 1988 - Took Rick Smits one all star game over Mitch Richmond (Six Time All Star Rookie of the Year) 1989 - Took George Mcloud (who is this guy?) over Shawn Kemp (All Star) Tim Hardaway (All Star/All Pro) Vlade Divac (All Star) Mookie Blaylock (All Star) Clifford Robinson (All Star) 1992 - Took Malik Sealy over Latrell Sprewell (All Star) 1993 - Took Scott Haskin over Sam Cassell (All Star) Nick Van Exel (All Star) 1996 - Took Eric Dampier over Steve Nash (All Star, All Pro, MVP) Jermaine O'Neal (All Star) Zydrunas Ilgauskas (All Star) Peja Stojakovic (All Star) Kobe Bryant 2001 - Took Jamaal Tinsley over Gilbert Arenas (All Star) Wait a minute... Dis cat took Eric Dampier over Kobe Bryant. I refuse to continue... This guy could have built one of the Greatest Dynasties in NBA history just off of his draft day misses/blunders alone.

Correct... I appreciate that. We are getting a lot of comments about the Ainge trade and others like that. Which is outside the scope of what BK is being criticized for. BK is criticized for draft picks. Who did not know that Pierce, Garnett, Ray Allen would be a championship caliber squad. Making that trade has more to do with circumstances than skill as a talent evaluator. It helped sway Garnett and Allen that Pierce was already on the team, which Ainge had nothing to do with. It helped that Ownership was willing to make the financial commitment which some owners are not and the GM is not on a level playing field with others. Nevertheless... I am loving the opinions based on actual facts I'm still soaking it all in right now... I see a few that I'm gonna cut off at the knees We have a lot of information here right now... I am trying to look at who was listed as better and why... After I soak some of this information up I'm gonna come out blastin

Well done

You can direct it at whoever you choose It's still equally irrelevant If you are going to make the argument that he did not draft well There has to be some standard of measurement otherwise you are just driveling If you have any basis for your assertions you should be able to name them This is actually a credit to BK. I wish he could see this The haters can't name General Managers that drafted better You can make your point more effectively by answering the challenge... If Billy Knight is a less than average GM... Give me the names of General Managers in the NBA that have drafted better than Billy Knight... You're a smart guy so I know this wont be a problem for you. P.S. You guys are getting killed Case closed

Shows how baseless your argument is. If he is as bad as you say he is you should already know who they are. Otherwise what are you basing your criticisms on. If you say he did not draft well You should know who did draft well You can make your point more effectively by answering the challenge... If Billy Knight is a less than average GM... Give me the names of General Managers in the NBA that have drafted better than Billy Knight... You're a smart guy so I know this wont be a problem for you. P.S. You guys are getting killed

No you are the one who is lazy. This thread was started to show appreciation to two GMs. If you did not like it you could have moved on. You guys chose to make the assertion that he was no good and "less than average" or however it was phrased. Prove it. You can make your point more effectively by answering the challenge... If Billy Knight is a less than average GM... Give me the names of General Managers in the NBA that have drafted better than Billy Knight... You're a smart guy so I know this wont be a problem for you. P.S. You guys are getting killed

My sentiments exactly. Give me a clean list without that other debris I already see that his retort is laughable. If he does not get a clean list. I will still tear that one up. It is laughable Absolutely laughable I see why they don't want to go on the record Will cut him tomorrow

Well well well... Here comes the Calvary... With all the impact of a colossal THUD Suffice it to say you have a bloated since of self importance if you think I am obligated to convince you of anything The argument supported by you and yours has been invalidated, undermined, annihilated, expunged, extirpated, mocked, trashed, parodied and whatever imaginable form of degradation is analytically possible You only embarrass yourself by continuing Right now you are just hoping you can keep the conversation going so you can find some small kernel, some morsel, of moral victory you can hang your hat on... Ahhh... That sacred moral victory you and yours cherish so deerly.. Well hang it on this... You can make your point more effectively by answering the challenge... If Billy Knight is a less than average GM... Give me the names of General Managers in the NBA that have drafted better than Billy Knight... You're a smart guy so I know this wont be a problem for you. P.S. You guys are getting killed

LOL! Nice try Sherlock. Put up or shut up. Suffice it to say that if you can not meet the challenge you have no basis for your hateful remarks about Billy Knight The fact of the matter is you guys have been so over board with this non sense it should not be a difficult task at all to perform And then to try that elementary reversal is laughable I guess I know how to bring this issue to a close from now on... Not to mention it is starting to look like you guys are working in shifts trying to stay afloat When one gets busted you page the other You can make your point more effectively by answering the challenge... If Billy Knight is a less than average GM... Give me the names of General Managers in the NBA that have drafted better than Billy Knight... You're a smart guy so I know this wont be a problem for you. P.S. You guys are getting killed

You can make your point more effectively by answering the challenge... If Billy Knight is a less than average GM... Give me the names of General Managers in the NBA that have drafted better than Billy Knight... You're a smart guy so I know this wont be a problem for you. P.S. You guys are getting killed