Brokentree

Sure the ranking is much better this year but the actual number of extra defensive rebounds per game is 1.1. That is not such a huge number that we need to try and analyze every player and schemes and line up changes to figure out where it is coming from. It's a nice bonus and it contributes to the 2 or so less points per game the Hawks are giving up this year but I'll take last years rebounding effort over this years because...

Defensive rebounding is up, but overall rebounding is down. That means our offensive boards are down.. alot (2.4 per game). This is what warrants discussion here. 2.4 offensive rebounds is like 2.4 shot attempts per game. We're taking about 2 shots less per game this year compared to last year and we're scoring about 4 pts less per game.

If Crawford was signed to a longer contract and we were further away from the luxury tax I would probably agree with you. But the fact of the matter is Jamal most likely isn't going to be resigned unless we shed salary somewhere else.

I personally would love to see what this team looks like offensively with Steve Nash.

I have little to no interest in Calderon at his current salary.

I say keep going with the matchups and do the lineups that way. plus this way we are prepared for bigger and smaller teams. in my eyes though the twin lineup isnt bad i look at it like this we have enough BIGS like collins, zaza and etan to be running a big lineup and 18 fouls in all to use so i say use those BIGS they aint here for nothing!

Etan Thomas is the biggest disappointment I think I've felt since we drafted Shelden Williams. I fully expected him to come in and average 10-15 minutes a game and get somewhere close to 5pts 5rbs a game. Instead we've gotten a total of 17 minutes. I feel like a total *ss for thinking the Hawks were right to sign Etan over waiting for Dampier or spending more than the minimum to sign Shaq. Right now I'd rather have Randolph Morris. I think he is the next Yao Ming.

The whole notion that we have to get rid of Joe's contract is foolish. You might not like Joe's contract, but honestly, without Joe, we're not a playoff team... and won't be. Moreover, Joe is not close to being our problem. Our problem is 3-4-5. We don't want to be real about this, but I'm bringing it to you real. Our problem is that between the 3, 4, and 5 position we have nobody that can dominate the post. We have talent and Joe's just another form of our talent (along with Craw, Horf, Smoove, and the like) but we have nothing at the 3,4, and 5 that can help us inside.

So we are a jumpshooting team.

I guess that's Joe's fault.

You're talking like the team wouldn't benefit at all from trading Joe. The Hawks certainly would be a playoff team without Joe because we'd be getting something in return. Sure we might dip further into mediocrity for a season or two but the idea is that our GM won't completely suck at his job and we'd get some sort of value in return. Draft picks, young players with upside, expiring contracts to help in free agency? The situation the team is in now we can't even trade for someone like a Marc Gasol or a Roy Hibbert or a Brook Lopez because we can't afford to pay them their next contracts. Joe's contract is ok for a couple of years but after that it is just brutal. In 2015-2016 he'd be making twice what Al Horford is due to make. If Sund can find a reasonable deal that gets us out of his contract then by all means he should go for it. Its all speculation anyways. Nothing is going to happen this year with Joe's elbow not allowing him to play his best.

I don't know Utah's financial philosophies but I wonder what people would think of a Johnson for AK trade. It doesn't really gain the Hawks anything talentwise but it would get us out of Joe's contract. Maybe a multi team trade and try to get a draft pick out of it. I like Joe but his contract really scares me considering who owns the team. I wonder what its like to be a Lakers or Knicks fan and not care about how much someone makes. I'll just try and convince myself that it would be boring.

The stat that we tend to ignore the most are the +/- stats. It is a stat that reflects how well the team is playing while a player is on the court.

Hawks Individual +/- stats NBA.com

We can complain about player deficiencies as much as we want but how the team plays is most important. Bibby might not be the best defensive player but the Hawks do better as a team when he is on the court. Collins might not score or pull down as many rebounds as we'd expect but for some reason the Hawks do well in his limited playing time. It's almost like the Hawks do better offensively when they have 4 scoring options on the floor rather than 5.

There are different situations in every game. Different matchups to try and take advantage of. Just because someone has a good +/- doesn't mean they should be playing every minute of every game and just because someone has a bad +/- doesn't mean they need to sit on the bench.

Sidenote- Compare this years +/- stats with last years. I'm fully in support of Larry Drew's offense but the man has his work cut out for him. This team needs alot of coaching and they need to play with discipline.

Those numbers averaged out are 18.2 ppg and 9.4 rpg. His season averages are 16.7 ppg and 9.6 rpg. 1.5 pts per game increase isn't a big deal. He should continue to play whatever position the coach believes gives us the best match ups on a night to night basis.

A rookie head coach, a new system, one of our best players playing hurt and missing games, a sf that doesn't play to his ability, a pf that makes stupid decisions and has attitude problems, an old pg that can't defend, a young pg that doesn't develop, a horrible bench other than Jamal, an undersized center that should be playing pf, a front office that is clueless and unwilling to spend money. I've heard all of these complaints at one time this season on this board but here is a fact. There are 30 teams in the NBA and only 13 of them have winning records right now. The Hawks happen to be one of them.

Perhaps the true difficulty comes from not understanding why a deal hasn't been reached.

What a lazy one pointed article. We could have extended Jamal this year and he'd be writing this article about Al Horford.

Crawford is in a contract year. Not just any contract year, but a contract year heading into a summer with a possible lockout and major changes to the NBA's pay structure. Most of the time these circumstances have led to players doing everything they can to showcase their individual talent and secure big money, many times at the expense of their teammates.

Crawford, however, isn't planning on using that strategy.

He understands that an unselfish, team-first attitude gives him the best chance to compete for a championship and get paid without being viewed as just another guy that only plays hard at contract time.

Is the author really telling us this as fact when the only evidence he submits is a quote from Jamal? Does he have any visual or statistical evidence? Did he maybe talk to other Hawks players and they told him Jamal was being a good team player?

Nice quotes from Jamal but lets role play and pretend for a second we're Jamal and we want a new contract. What would we say?

I really find these types of articles annoying. It is void of relevent information merely to make it interesting for ignorant basketball fans. He could have written an article with all the facts and guess what? It would have completly sucked because people would ask "Whats the point of this article?" Looks to me like he's just trying to make the Hawks management look incompetent, and do they really need help with that?

That being said. I like Jamal on this team and I do hope we find away to resign him, but at the same time I'll understand if we can't.

Marvin was in a video too, cant think of it right now tho

Here you go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXe1qKOIfmU

We're one or two passes short of an offense right now as well.

I was thinking this was going to be about Jordan Crawford. I hope he makes it into the game tonight.

Present

10. Jordan Crawford

9. Jeff Teague

8. Zaza Pachulia

7. Mo Evans

6. Mike Bibby

5. Marvin Williams

4. Jamal Crawford

3. Josh Smith

2. Joe Johnson

1. Al Horford

All Time

10. Mookie Blaylock

9. Pete Maravich

8. Tree Rollins

7. Eddie Johnson

6. John Drew

5. Kevin Willis

4. Cliff Hagan

3. Lou Hudson

2. Bob Pettit

1. Dominique Wilkins

These are my 10 most disappointing players that have ever worn a Hawks uniform. Not all of these players are at fault. Take Bibby for example. I like him.. but man I liked him alot more 6 years ago. It's just disappointing to get him now by comparison. So alot of these are on management.

10. Mike Bibby- Very good player but the timing was poor. Trade for him just in time for him to help out for a year or two. Resign him thinking we're set for another 2-3 years to find that he's just about done as a starter. He's on this list because the Hawks have needed a point guard for years and we missed his window by maybe 2 years.

9. Speedy Claxton- Played a total of 1069 minutes in 3 years due to injury after signing as a free agent. Only saving grace is that he was involved in the trade to bring Jamal Crawford to the Hawks.

8. Acie Law- Drafted 11th overall and the 2nd point guard drafted overall. High expectations and alot of hype after shooting that winning shot against the Longhorns. Also involved in the Jamal Crawford deal.

7. Josh Childress- He picked Greece over playing for the Hawks. 6th overall pick in a very deep draft that under performed compared to players picked below him. 7th pick Luol Deng, 9th pick Andre Iguodala, 15th pick Al Jefferson, 17th pick Josh Smith, 20th pick Jameer Nelson.

6. LaPhonso Ellis- After playing a few good seasons for Denver he signed with Atlanta as a free agent at the age of 28. Only played in 78 games over two years in which his statistics dropped drastically.

5. Jeff Teague- Two years of hype and one good game that was all garbage minutes.

4. DerMarr Johnson- Car accident canceled his 3rd year but his first two were not very impressive after being picked 6th overall. Showed flashes of potential though.

3. Marvin Williams- Everyone knows this story.

2. Sheldon Williams- 5th overall pick that never produced. His per 36 stats with Denver this year are eerily similar to his per 36 stats from his rookie year. People are saying he's finally found a home and is being productive? I think not.

1. All the rentals players, end of career players, and headaches. The Glenn Robinsons. The Rasheed Wallaces. The Tom Gugliottas. The Kenny Andersons. The Gary Paytons. The Stephen Jacksons. The Isiah Riders. The Danny Mannings. The Kenny Smiths. Players that were good way before there were Hawks. Players that were good that played a very short time as a Hawk. Players that were good but a-holes.

Horford is not exactly in foul trouble with 2 fouls at the half, but he got those in less than 4 minutes playing time. He hasn't played since the Zach Randolph tumble as far as I could tell. With as well as Zaza is playing you'd think it would be a good time to get Horford some minutes at PF. Hope he is not hurt.

One of the valuable things in a 6th man is the ability to change the pace. When the Hawks offense isn't going its good to have that guy that can come in and try to get some momentum going even if it is outside the offensive gameplan.

One of the things I love about Josh Smith is his ability to change momentum with one dunk. I'm more concerned with how he fits in this offense. Taking alot of jumpers. He took and made a 3 but I still cringed. Need the adrenaline plays from him.

It's closer to an optomistic pessimism for me but I'm excited to see a new season start and see how this team performs. I fully expect the Hawks to come out of the gate slow against good opponents and then pick it up midseason and go into the playoffs with some momentum. I'd even be happy with an 8 seed as long as that momentum is there going into the playoffs.

Champ: Utah Jazz

MVP: Durant

Rookie of the year: Wall

Coach of the year: Jerry Sloan

Defensive player: Dwight Howard

6th man: Antawn Jamison

MIP: Roy Hibbert

Celtics/Magic/Bulls

Jazz/Mavericks/Lakers

NBA League Pass Broadband is supposedly free until November 2. Might be worth a look if you get desperate.

I went with broadband last year and thought it was ok. The black outs kind of got to me as I work a later shift so when I did get a chance to catch a game live on the weekends it seemed to not be available alot of the time. NBAtv I think was the main culprit. The idea that the game was on NBAtv.. but not on NBA league pass.. well that kind of pissed me off. On a plus note you could go back and rewatch alot of the games as they were archived.

"What do I want? I want to be here," Crawford said at the start of the Hawks' training camp.

"I love being here. I LOVE being here. I had a ball every time. I felt like I was at a concert performing every time I played here. It was just a lot of fun.

"Name of external link

Like one of these guys concerts? I'm just jokin.

Dampier was part of another team making an extraordinary amount of money for the last season of his contract. The Hawks could not trade for him and at the time did not know if he would be traded or waived. If he was waived they had no guarantee that he'd want to sign here. Etan Thomas was available cheap and he was signed. Dampier was waived a week or two later and we already had 4 players that could spend time at center signed.

All the talk at the time Dampier was waived was him signing with Miami. Were we supposed to not sign any centers and wait until now to see if Dampier would sign with us for the minimum? Keep in mind that people were signing minimum contracts left and right with Miami to try and get a championship. Were we supposed to watch some other team sign Etan Thomas and just expect that Dampier would choose the Hawks? How would we feel if we didn't sign Etan and Dampier went and decided to play for Toronto or Houston anyways?

The longer he takes to decide on a team to play for the more happy I am that we're not involved with him. The preseason has already started. He hasn't decided who he wants to play for yet. Does he just hate training camp? Is he holding out until the last minute to try and get more than a minimum contract from someone? Is he waiting for injuries to hit some team to drive up his value? The fact that he didn't sign with Miami and the fact that he hasn't signed with any other team implies to me that he is seeking something more than a minimum contract. The more I talk about it the more I think he is waiting for a team like the Hawks to use part of their mid-level to sign him. The Hawks have what? 3m roughly they can still offer before the luxury tax kicks in? Just say no Sund.

If Zaza and Etan can play a combined 30m+ and average a double double then I see no reason why Horford wouldn't play more minutes at PF than at C this year. To keep Smith on the floor for 30-35 minutes a night he would have to play some SF minutes.

C- Horford 15m, Etan and Zaza 30m... oh.. FINE.. Jason Collins 3m

PF- Josh Smith 25m , Horford 18m, Josh Powell 5m <--- is the Josh that loses out on minutes if Horford plays PF

SF- Marvin 30m, JJ 10m, Josh Smith 8m,

SG- JJ 25m, Jamal 15m, Jordan, 8m

PG- Bibby 20m, Teague 15m, Jamal 13m

Sprinkle in Mo Evans as needed.. and Pape Sy if he stays with the team all year.

Ultimately the players that perform the best will get the minutes at whatever position they're doing well at. Horford can say he wants to play PF all he wants but if he doesn't do well he can't complain much if they don't play him there.

Of course with the Hawks working on extending Horford they'd probably tell him he could play PG if he wanted to in hopes that he'd come a little cheaper. Maybe in the long run its all positioning. You know Al you're a 13m a year center.. but man.. you're only a 10m a year PF.

Waiting on an extension for Jamal isn't just about seeing if we can trade him for something at the trade deadline. It's also about seeing if we can trade other players on the team. If we can trade for an expiring then we'd have room to extend both Crawford and Horford.

If I am reading this right. Horford is playing on his rookie contract so if he gets an extension it has to be by Oct. 31 of this year (it falls on a Sunday so Nov. 1st is probably the actual date for this year). We can not extend him after that date. We can extend Jamal's contract up to the day it expires (June 30th). You can see why Horford takes priority.

It would probably be more beneficial to start thinking about some expiring contracts we can trade for at the trade deadline that would clear us another 5-10m per year than to argue over whether we should extend Crawford now (gee Marvin's contract might work! hours and hours of fun for Diesel). The arguement that he "deserves it" does no good because we all basically agree that he deserves something. The fact is we can't do it now. Something else has to happen first.

We have a few months of play to see who really wants to be on the Hawks.