theheroatl

Compare the two defensive ratings by team year from the start of the Curry years.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/GSW/

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ATL/

Hawks need to get a good Defensive rating before they gonna come close. That is why we need to trade.. I don't see John getting a longer wingspan, Huerter becoming a defensive stopper, Bogi improving or Gallo improving on defense.

Capela is just a big trade chip.

TLDR;

Hawks have a "Steph"

They need a "Klay" 20+ PPG consistently.

They need a "Draymond" 

They need a "wing/glue guy" (Iguoudala/Wiggins mold)

They need defensive bench players

IMO they only have 1 out of the 6 factors squared away.

Certainly I think the dialog went cold between Jazz/Hawks. That being said I really want to see if Travis can pull off the Ayton SNT and either Mitchell or LaVine out of left field.

@sturt I’d like to see your reasoning for the following players getting to an elite level:

John

Bogi

Kevin

Capela

The only elite player on our team is Trae. OO and Dre still TBD.

You fervently defend keeping this core intact based on the ECF run. 

I think a good formula is concentrating your players into 3-4 really reliable scoring guys plus some defensive role players. No more bogi+huerter+gallo.. I'd like to see this:

Trae
*20+ ppg SG*
Dre
Defensive PF.. maybe Onyeka???? (Trade JC for a SG package)
Ayton *20 PPG+* and high usage
 

Yes Travis wants to defuse, any good GM would want that. As for actual trade discussion and potential trades actually happening? Almost certain.

7 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Can you clarify this portion?

What did the Hawks offer initially for Vucevic and Williams? 

He meant Utah wanted those two. 

As for a deal happening between Utah and Atlanta. I think it gets done. Utah will be desperate to move Gobert as things keep souring like Ayton. 

Ayton is a much harder deal and I'm sure Atlanta knows that. You have the Suns with James Jones & Ayton personally as well to convince.

8 minutes ago, Final_quest said:

Is there a reason that deal would go down today or just wishing?

Why today vs. next week? A whole weekend more of smoke and speculation as opposed to moving on to the real issue which is identifying a shooting guard.

Also I don’t believe the Hawks are looking to move up in the draft so I’d like to know if they are or just trading 16.

Here it is! We will see if we stick with it. As much as I love debating the worthiness of John Collins or Bogi’s Knees or what you had for breakfast, I’d like a pure rumor thread for all NBA and Hawks specific trades and signings. Team direction and other ongoing arguments can be discussed further in the other thread.

I’m hoping the Gobert trade is done today instead of the waiting until the 23rd but I’m sure that is just wishful thinking with Danny “War Chest” Ainge involved.

7 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Problem is we have no other SF to replace him...  but Jalen Williams is day one ready..

That may be true if we keep 16.  I wonder if Travis can convince Utah to take CHA's protected pick next year so we can keep 16. Send Utah Capela/Hunter/CHA 2023 and get Gobert and Williams. You then avoid paying the Hunter extension as well.

Hunter is absolutely a weak link especially in a contract year. The gamble is that he has a big leap up in year 4 like Jaylen Brown did and figure it out. 50/50 chance at that. I'm sure the FO is really debating whether to ship him away to Utah or keep him on his rookie extension.

3 minutes ago, JTB said:

Clint could always be flipped to the Raptors for OG if salaries work.

Hows this lineup?

Trae

OG

Hunter

OO

Gobert

 

 

Masai is not letting go of OG. That ship gonna sail. One of the most team friendly contracts if not the most.

9 minutes ago, terrell said:

Banchero to Houston confirmed.. lol

I never thought they were seriously considering anyone else. It’s going to be one of the 3 but they are preparing for Banchero.

I can imagine the Jazz FO has the Capela/Huerter/16 offer on their table and they have tried every angle to get either added or swapped Collins/Hunter/additional picks. It’s a waiting game of chicken until free agency before the Ayton smoke clears if Jazz stay stubborn. I’d bet the Hawks will be fine with them taking the Jazz trade as structured by the Hawks and the Ayton structure would be leverage or 2nd deal smoke by the Atlanta front office/agents to spook Jazz. 
 

Nonetheless, it will be interesting to see if Detroit throws a max offer and Phoenix doesn’t match. They gonna need to take a bare bottom offer if Atlanta takes Gobert. James Jones might get torched. He can easily get outleveraged quick with Gobert gone.

Christian Wood is not an upgrade. For scraps yeah but he can be a headcase with no defense. Dallas out of the center market. Also more importantly a domino has fallen so closer to having our smoke clear

Question to throw out there… Assuming there is an agreed upon framework, do you think any trades will be submitted before draft day or just at draft day… I’m wondering if it just comes down to leveraging down to the minute like Brooklyn and Philly did with the Ben trade or if the deal is pretty much going to be it.

Mainly referencing any John Collins, Gobert, or Grant trades because that seems to be where a lot of smoke is. 
 

Judging from history it seems likely that a wojbomb on any of those players won’t come until the 23rd so 7 more days of smoke.

Also, as a side note I’ve seen the Jazz fans pick up a Capela/Collins trade for Gobert and they are lapping it up. That is on the same level that idiot Knicks fans dream of.

Seems like some of their people got the wires crossed and ran with it. 
 

Atlanta will never offer that deal. It will be Capela/Huerter/16 final offer or no deal.

If you want to side debate John Collins please start another thread. Please post about trade rumors or signings here.

3 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Only thing I'm worried about in that regard is the fact that Brown came up as a PG, for the most part.  HIs handle has been fine.  Hunter's needs work.

That's the difference that could (emphasis on 'could') cap Hunter's potential ascension to where Brown is right now.

I think moreso than handling it is his consistency. He disappears sometimes due to yielding to the guards. He certainly fits a different mold (wing slasher) than ball handler like Brown. He has to turn on the switch and keep it on all game. Maybe that is a maturity thing but if it is an actual personality thing than he could suffer and decline.

I'm drooling at the prospect of DeAndre making a year 4 jump like Jaylen Brown did...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/brownja02.html

Now, if only that happens then that can be something big for us. Jaylen's seemed log-jammed behind Kyrie and Marcus and once Kyrie was gone that made a difference. I wonder if DeAndre could recognize his need if our shooting guards didn't try and do all the slashing instead of Dre.

There is absolutely no doubt we would get better defensively with Gobert. BUT, if you add him while just using Capela and Huerter you can still get massively better on perimeter defense. Nobody said you can't do both. What people fail to realize is Utah never tried to get better defensively on the perimeter. Plus we have a potential defensive star wing if he can get past a hump. 

Get a defensive/offensive star shooting guard like Paul George and you start rolling.

It all comes down to Utah settling for Huerter instead of Hunter. Does anyone know of a compelling competition potential trade? NOT Jerami Grant plus trash for Gobert.

3 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Nimbers don't fit.

Maybe

1.  Cap/JC/Huerter/#16 for Gobert/Bogdanovich

or

2.  Cap/JC/Huerter/#16 for Gobert/Clarkson/Gay...

The first is trading away your young core for 2 old men.

The second is trading away your young core for 2 old men + Clarkson. 

 

Which salary year are you using for Huerter? Try using the 2022-2023 salary year when the trade actually finalizes. Also the https://fanspo.com/nba/trade-machine is better than ESPN.

My gut feeling is on draft day (23rd) the Jazz pull the trigger on Gobert for Capela, Huerter and 16. They waive Gallo (29th) and pursue some 15-20 ppg shooting guard somewhere (June 30). Also, the 44th will be sold for cash to make paying luxury seem worthwhile.

Also, I feel like somebody knows about the framework with the Jazz and spilled the beans somewhere maybe to get a beat and final offer.

I also think JC will NOT be traded before the season begins.