noble

Just now, Diesel said:

Did Jordan Not need Pippen?

Did Stockton not need Malone?

Did Shaq not need Kobe?

Did Shaq not need Wade?

Did Lebron not need a whole bunch of Jokers and the league's officials?

 

When you look up the guy in the dictionary...  The first definition is this..

The second definition is this...

But somewhere down the line you see this guy...

He's a guy that can take a franchise that has only been to the ECF once to the ECFs and win 2 games while he's playing...

You realize that this man who you say is not the guy had us within 2 games of going to the finals...

And we would have beaten Phoenix. 

Noble, when we have the parade, you're going to have to write an apology to Trae. 

 

Think of it this way. You need a “Jordan” to Trae’s Pippen. Or a “Kobe” to Trae’s Shaq….however. 

Again, maybe he gets there. But until he’s more consistent it’s what it is. 

On 11/29/2022 at 11:33 AM, Diesel said:

You should have been killed.  There's nothing Second about Trae.   He's obviously a primetime player.   Moreover, he's more than an 18/10 guy also.   He's more like a 27/13 guy..   The likes of which this league has not seen.    Yeah, you should have been killed.   You just eqauted Trae to Freakin Andre Miller. 

 

I’m saying he’s a good second guy. But sorry, he’s just not THE guy for a team. Maybe he gets there, but he needs help. 

16 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I have to acknowledge...

That Luka and Ja are better than Trae right now. 

I know that Trae is second in assists... and he's starting to turn things around point wise...   But damnit trae, for the first time, you're not winning the eye test. 

I know Luka is fat and he's slow but he's superstaring. 

I know that Ja is a frontrunner and a showoff but right now his game has some substance. 

It's bad because I believe that Trae is better than both of these guys.... However, his shooting and decision making hasn't been it lately. 

 

I was killed for saying this when we drafted him. He’s a top notch second guy. That’s always been who he is. 

I know it isn’t a popular opinion, but his consistency and issues to create for himself when the team needs someone to take over isn’t what you’d hope for your top guy. He can score 18/10 but if he is your TOP guy he has to be better than that. If not, you need another guy or two who can score and allow his passing to be the catalyst.

2 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

As for the move, don't get it twisted.  This is strictly an offense for defense move.

Justin Holiday has looked damn good at times out on the court, especially on the defensive end.   We essentially trade Kevin's shooting for Justin's defense.  In a conference that has Tatum, Brown, Butler, Lavine, and Durant in it, we'll need defense at the 2nd and 3rd team levels to throw different looks at them.

Justin is nowhere near this good offensively, but his defense is consistent.

 

 

I’d also love some first level defense. 

I think they still have enough to get a trade for him done if they wanted to. Now, do they want to? I dunno. I’d still look at Gobert if it were me. 

7 hours ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Career playoff record:

Trae: 10-11 (.476)

Luka: 12-15 (.444)

Deepest playoff run

Trae: ECF game 6

Luka: WCF game 5

Most wins in a single playoff:

Trae: 9

Luka: 7

Career Playoff High Points

Trae: 48

Luka: 46

Career Playoff High Assists

Trae: 18

Luka: 14

Career Playoff Series Wins against Higher Seed:

Trae: 2

Luka: 1

Career Playoff Series Record

Trae: 2-2 (.500)

Luka: 2-3 (.400)

 

We hear all the time how much better Luka is. Well, here are a few categories in which is simply is not yet better than Trae

 

 

Wins aren’t a single player stat, kind of like wins aren’t a QB stat. Carry on. 

39 minutes ago, Diesel said:

You don't have to be a superstar on defense but just play the ball.   Trae can do that.   Superstars that just played the ball:

Magic, Bird, Isiah, Steph, etc.  

I believe that the FO didn't make any rash moves that would destroy our chemistry and our ability to be good in the future.  You got to get over the Cam stuff because Cam didn't want to be here.   He's the girl that told you that she wanted to see other people.   You can't keep faulting yourself for that. 

Travis has shown that when the right opportunity arises, he won't hesitate to pull the trigger but there's a blueprint. 

I don’t honestly care about Cam, that is what it is. All of those guys are better or at least put forth fairly solid effort in the defensive end. Also all four of these were on stacked teams and each are arguably top players of their generation, playing with other top stars of their generation. I don’t see Trae in that stratosphere (maybe he gets there, but he isn’t there). My bigger issue is this team has functioned the same since Nique. Get a guy, think he is the guy, hope he can carry you. Historically this team is what it is. To change the idea of being a fluke, you have to repeat the success or at least maintain, something they have not been able to do. They need another star, plain and simple if they want to win a ring at least once they have to actually team build with an eye on the sum of its parts, not just a part here, a part there. 
 

Look I get it, this is a young, developing team. But sadly they are also a team with a history of not being able to get over the hump of the “we made the playoffs but aren’t good enough to win it” treadmill.

I am just tired of year in and year out knowing our chance at a ring is a long shot. At some point I just want them to go all in and win the whole thing, or the very least prove you aren’t a fluke. 

Fluke. Here’s the thing Trae can score (streaky) but he can’t help the defense. If you want to be a true superstar to carry your team you have to do both. Then the FO believes he alone can carry a team and did nothing to help him. No defensive help, no real second star (although I’ve argued Trae IS the second star they just don’t have a first), just a bunch of dudes. Afraid to spend money and make moves to even add a guy that COULD help. They desperately want to draft and develop, but fact is they don’t really do that. Then instead of keeping a guy they trade for picks/money or let them walk. They approach the off-season and trade deadline like the Cowboys front office does, and tbh it sucks. You can’t stay stagnant and hope for the best if everyone else is trying to get better. Not unless you have a top 5-10 player, which iwbh, we don’t have yet. 

To be actual contenders? You have to find a way to get Giannis on the roster. While you are doing that, get at the very minimum Bertans.

If you mean actual contenders you need at least a Superstar and and some stars around him. 

If you mean a playoff team then hope some guys develop and scrape the middle barrel for guys like Derrick Jones Jr and pray. 

1 hour ago, AHF said:

I had avoided looking at that trade but went ahead and gave them a click since we are discussing it here.

It was even worse than I expected.  Not only do I not like the trade if it was just Collins but we throw in Huerter too?!?  

For a bag of popcorn and some socks

13 minutes ago, capstone21 said:

That trade would be an epic fail ... I don’t want more draft picks and hoping guys with potential will actually be good players.  JC has proven he can contribute in a big way ... either resign or look for deals that will improve the team

It is like they think the Hawks will be rebuilding for the next 10 years the way they write.

Was rolling through some news and came across this gem. 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2898018-realistic-offseason-trades-nba-fanbases-wouldnt-see-coming

Apparently it comes from an article from the Athletic that the Hawks don't want to give Collins a big contract.

What say you?

13 hours ago, PSSSHHHRRR87 said:

Yes and no.  It depends what your definition of number one option is... If you mean the best player on the team then yes.  If you mean first scoring option then no. I believe Trae is dynamic enough as a PG to be the leader and performer that we need for a championship caliber team, but he cannot be our primary ball handler AND the number one scoring option and expect to win. There has be someone else that dominates and racks up the points... otherwise it's a one-man band and the rest of the team is just along for the ride. Shoot-first PG's do not win championships.

This is it. Well put and dead on. Trae is more of a 1a/2 guy as a scoring option, or should be. 

2 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Very puzzling!  Wonder why he is so satisfied with the Center position?  Is he really counting on Jones to contribute?

Because this isnt the season they wanted to chase free agents. Next year looks god awful at this moment, so maybe 2021if the FA class holds. Why not play some younger guys and let them get experience? Best I can come up with.

7 hours ago, KB21 said:

I just wanted to remind everyone this.  Everything that is bad about the Hawks right now is because of tanking.  

Taurean Prince is bad right now because of tanking.

The Hawks defense is bad right now because of tanking.

The Hawks are turnover prone on offense because of tanking.

The Hawks have significantly downgraded their coaching situation because of tanking. 

The Hawks have been completely noncompetitive this year because of tanking.

The future is dim because of tanking.

I want to remind everyone this. The Hawks are tanking because they could never be considered a threat for a ring before this. They couldn't get a superstar to put them over being just a middle of the road team  who got swept against a real player.

Taurean Prince is bad because we are trying to rebuild.

The Hawks defense is bad because they are young and the NBA is scoring at a record rate.

They are turnover prone due to being young and rebuilding.

They gave a shot to a young coach during the rebuild.

They are not competitive just like they have been for 20 years because they have no stars and are rebuilding.

The future is no more or less dim than before when we couldn't make it past LBJ and be a real team who had a shot at a ring.

On 10/20/2018 at 5:19 AM, deester11 said:

Not one person dictated this team would be good this year, the next whatever.  You sound like a politician with this "I told yall" shtick you play.  Do you post anything positive that you see?  Better yet, did you win the Mega Millions or a cool billion? If so, buy the team and put us all out of our misery.  

Like it or not, we're here.  Fans are wanting to find something to look forward to.  Does it stink? Yeah, but your constant bytching and complaining does what?

Anyway, the tank is fully equipped, gassed up and running accordingly.  The majority of us don't like it but realize we're in it.  

You missed the point on this and that's okay. The point was prior to go this route, there are people that have voiced their opinions that all we had to do was keep the pieces we had and grab one or 2 more pieces, oh and not have an injury, and this team would have been in the Championships.

So, to those people, I say that because you are so quick to slam an attempt at getting a truly competitive team, remember we weren't truly competitive before either. Whether anyone likes it or not, we are in a rebuild, we haven't been a realistic team to win a ring since, well, maybe Nique vs Bird. 

6 hours ago, KB21 said:

The folks who are supporting this tank job believe that the team will be able to flip a switch and start contending for a championship just as soon as the "superstar" is drafted.  

Folks who dont support this tank job believe we could have flipped a switch and been competitive in the playoffs and had a chance at a ring before this. 

So both are wrong apparently?

5 hours ago, Plainview1981 said:

Prince is a cent player. Bembry.

As for Carter, I hate these signings because they wouldn't even consider playing here in their prime. And they still wouldn't sign here if they were relevant.

Welcome to being a Hawks fan. This team cant sign big free agents in their prime. The hope is the young guys learn from Vince, develop, and become a destination for star FAs. That is what this is all about, the tank that is. Collecting draft picks. Something to try to one day have a team that could have a real shot. 

4 hours ago, KB21 said:

I've never ignored that point.  See my sig.  Here's what all of you want to ignore though.  Mathematically, you have a 0% chance of winning a championship by tanking.

And how many times have we been to a Finals prior to this "tanking"? Making the playoffs with zero to show for it has worked so well to this point. 

And if we are going to talk culture, even with a 60 win team, what was so bad about our culture that no high value FA wanted to join that team? We could easily say we haven't had that type of culture you want since Nique was traded. Know what Nique was? A superstar, a generational talent. Talent can and does help change a culture. Outside of Run DMC, the Warriors were never a destination, until they got talent.

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

Yeah.  This attitude makes sense.  Since we apparently can't bring a star level player in as a free agent, we should just suck so we can draft one, ignoring the fact that we have a lesser chance of drafting one than signing one.

What does it say about this team then if they haven't had a superstar in 30 years? Neither FA or the draft.

22 minutes ago, Vol4ever said:

We have to get a superstar period.  Nique is the only superstar in the last 30 years......................30 freakin years!

Big time players want to win and they are not going to a team if it has management issues.  

 

This is why Im against the tank.  You have to draft a superstar and the last one we got was Stan Kasten getting Nique.  I dont know about you but Im not seeing good stuff out of this jr GM we have.  Dallas just picked up DeAndre Jordan and still looking, so that pick will not be a lottery pick.   

I guess Travis thinks Trae Will be a superstar.....................I sure hope so.  

Two different things here. We were winning and still couldn't get one. 30 years like you said. And we had a 60 win team.

And yes, we are a team that had to draft well to get a major star.

58 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Along with the myth of tanking, there is this myth that Atlanta is never in the mix for big time players in free agency.

Not true.

That's one. Who else was "big time"? And dont give me Milsap. Johnson is 2.

9 hours ago, sturt said:

To be fair, more often than not... make that far more often than not... we haven't had cap space to even be in a position to pursue any top tier players. Am I wrong?

True, but even when we had a chance, it never materialized. Like I said this way it is a pleasant surprise lol.

Based on our history to pull star free agents. I am never excited for FA. I plan to watch until one day I am surprised and we actually get real talent that could potentially one day get us a ring. Since this has never actually happened. I plan to be surprised when it does so I dont get disappointed anymore.