Bankingitbig

Yes, it's right. Paul Millsap has the third highest salary for the 2017-2018 season.

Taking the over. Also don't mind the odds for the Hawks to make the playoffs at +1400... The East is bad and outside of CLE, BOS, WSH, TOR, MIL and MIA, it's somewhat open. Think PHI is too young. DET always seems to have issues. CHA will likely make it. Just need some good fortune for us.

On ‎8‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 9:15 PM, skimaskway23 said:

I spoke with my connect in the organization. He showed me pics of the new training facility. He also told me they received the sample schedule.

Apparently coach bud is pissed because they gave us a 7 game road trip to start the season and the first game at home is against millsap and the nuggets. They requested some changes

Need your connection to start giving some trade rumors. Looks like Bud didn't get too many changes as we still have a 5-game road trip to start the season and our home opener is again Millsap and the Nuggets. I do think starting the season on a road trip has to do somewhat with the arena renovations and making sure they are fully complete.

14 hours ago, ATLien_ said:

That's probably the highest rated rookie we've ever had on 2k. Dennis was in the 60s and Taurean was a 70. I can't remember what Horford was.

This year's NBA 2k ratings are inflated compared to previous years in my opinion. Lonzo Ball and Markelle Fultz are both 80s, which is the highest a rookie has gotten since like 2011 or something.

Becomes the best shooter on our roster. What a tank move...

24 minutes ago, thecampster said:

Because if he is signed by another team for the same or more than he makes now (which given his low salary is a given), the salary is set off.

https://moorebasketball.com/2016/01/19/how-it-works-the-waiver-procedure-and-contract-buyouts/

"The set-off right gives teams the ability to offset the money they owe a waived player and the money on their cap sheet in the event that player signs with another professional team.[6] For every year that the team is responsible for the remaining salary on a terminated contract, the team can set-off the amount of money the player is earning on another professional contract, subject to a formula in the CBA. The formula takes the player’s new salary and subtracts the minimum salary for either a rookie (for rookies) or a second year player (for all players other than rookies). If the outcome is positive, the team can offset the player’s dead money cap hit by that amount divided by two. For example, if a team waives a player and has $8M of dead money on their cap sheet in 2015-16 as a result, and that player signs a contract with a Chinese Basketball Association team for $2M in 2015-16, the team can set-off the amount they owe the player by $577,471,[7] and thus owe him only $7,422,529 for the that season. Although this right to set-off does benefit a team in most cases it will be a very limited amount of money, as demonstrated above."

Don't think the salary for Stone is set-off. See the bolded part of what you pasted. Don't see Stone getting anything more than a minimum contract, so he likely won't have any set-off.

The only benefit from this move is the extra roster spot. It's definitely a negative from a cap perspective (though not by much, only $1.3m)

18 hours ago, TheFuzz said:

I think Portland is just trying to save as much cap as they can tbh. Surprised they unloaded Crabbe for so little.

As far as Nicholson, he's ok I suppose. Not super into him

Yea - they are just trying to lighten the luxury tax bill that they will have to pay. Dumping Crabbe saves them something like $40M on the luxury tax. Purely a move for the organization/owner to not lose as much money. Doesn't really have any cap implications since they are still over the salary cap.

Don't know much about him. This article paints a fairly positive picture of him and his ties to Porzingis. Seems to be focused on player development. 

25 minutes ago, Flight said:

Y'all Kyrie is a household name. Worst case scenario he's making our team relevant to the league and being the Hawks version of Julio for the city. 

Don't diss on Julio like that...

On ‎7‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 11:28 PM, sturt said:

Just to be clear, I dredged up this thread b/c, again, it's getting curious why everyone else has announced officially one or both of their two-ways, but nothing out of ATL HQ. Looking back, was there any report from someone we've come to respect on this? Alex Kennedy, as memory serves, isn't particularly reliable.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2017/07/201718-nba-two-way-contract-tracker.html

He was on our roster last year for training camp, so the two-way contract signing isn't that big of a surprise.

AJC reported on it too.http://www.ajc.com/sports/basketball/magette-gets-new-path-nba-with-two-way-contract/ziuhdFsk4mJUlHAHReC3KI/

Agree with you on Alex Kennedy though.

We lost in the first round of the playoffs last year. Something needed to change.

2 minutes ago, Randy said:

I thought only about $3m of Crawford's salary was guaranteed.  Does the entire amount still go against the cap whether they pay him or not?  Is this a sneaky way of dropping below the cap minimum? Or was all of Crawford's money guaranteed?

Here is what I said in the Crawford buyout thread - the $3m you are referencing is only for the 2018-2019 season.

Hawks and Crawford agreed to a "buyout" of his contract to allow him to become a free agent. In the buyout arrangement, we agree to pay him only $13.2m of his $17.2m guaranteed contract over 2-years. This is ~76% of his guaranteed contract, so his cap hit this year will only be ~76% of what his 2017-2018 salary was supposed to be, which is where the $10,942,762 cap hit in 2017-2018 comes from. Next year, it will only be $2,304,2226 as a cap hit since he only had $3,000,000 guaranteed for the 2018-2019 season.

2 hours ago, AHF said:

We could have gotten a first this year and then traded Crawford's almost nonguaranteed deal next year for another first at the cost of paying a disgruntled Crawford this season.  We did him a favor.

I was thinking about this as well. But I was surprised there weren't many non-guaranteed contracts traded this offseason for teams above the tax or close to it to use as way of shedding salary. For example, Utah couldn't find anyone for Diaw's completely non-guaranteed contract of $7m. Currently right now for 2018-2019 we have ~$33m in cap space counting only guaranteed contracts, close to a 9+ year veteran max. Generally when trading a non-guaranteed contract like Crawford's you have to take back equal salary. I think Shclenk is just choosing to have the cap space for next offseason instead of the potential to get another first by letting a team dump salary to you. It's probably the safer move right now, especially when looking at the free agents for next year.

37 minutes ago, JTB said:

I'm trying to understand what's going on...so did the Hawks buyout Crawford at 11m this off season and does that count towards the cap?

sorry I'm completely confused on what was done to buyout Crawford. We didn't stretch him apparently so where did the money come from to buy him out?

 

by the way please break it down in the most simple way possible lol

Simple answer is Yes. Players and teams are allowed to negotiate buyouts to get out of contracts, which is what happened.

More complex answer below:

Hawks and Crawford agreed to a "buyout" of his contract to allow him to become a free agent. In the buyout arrangement, we agree to pay him only $13.2m of his $17.2m guaranteed contract over 2-years. This is ~76% of his guaranteed contract, so his cap hit this year will only be ~76% of what his 2017-2018 salary was supposed to be, which is where the $10,942,762 cap hit in 2017-2018 comes from. Next year, it will only be $2,304,2226 as a cap hit since he only had $3,000,000 guaranteed for the 2018-2019 season.

I believe where the stretch rumors came from is that the Hawks and Crawford in the buyout agreed to have his money paid over a stretched time frame instead of just the two years. But from a salary cap perspective, the Hawks did not choose to have his cap hits stretched and will incur most of his charge this year.

24 minutes ago, Diesel said:

 

They dealt Holiday because:

• 2 lottery picks. 
• Holiday's contract would be up through the rebuild
• They had the chance to draft Micheal Carter Williams. 

We held on to Dennis because:

• Nobody is offering 2 lottery picks. 
• Dennis is signed for the next 4 years. 
• We didn't have a lottery pick to replace Dennis with. 

 

Inaccurate conclusions and more reaches from you... They had the option to extend Holiday and had him as RFA. They could have literally held on to him for another 4 or even 5 years if they wanted. Same amount of years that we have Schröder. Instead, Hinkie knew they weren't ready to compete yet and that Holiday would be a detriment to ensuring a top pick in future drafts. Thus why he is traded. Not sure how many times we have to rehash that with you ignoring the main premise....

Here you are stuck on the two lottery picks again in regards to Dennis while missing the complete strategy of what Hinkie did. Not sure how to spell it out even clearer for you. Hinkie literally traded all assets for future assets in order to ensure that he would have the best odds of a high draft pick the following years. This is also why he didn't want productive vets on his team (and yes AK47 doesn't count... lol). Thus, if Hinkie was in Schlenk's position, he would quickly realize that having Dennis on the team would be a detriment to ensuring the best possible odds of a high draft pick. Thus, he would trade Dennis for the best possible return - whatever that may be, whether it is 1 first round pick or 2 first round picks - doesn't matter he just didn't want his team winning in the near-term. Dennis being signed for next 4 years has nothing to do with this. See MCW who the 76ers had for another 3 years and just came off winning ROY, but instead what did Hinkie do? He traded him for a future pick because he didn't want to win in the near-term. I like how you avoid mentioning that though.

Probably my last post about all this because its obviously a waste of time discussing with you the way you pick and choose which "facts" you want to use. You clearly don't understand the way Hinkie tried building his team, so it's pretty fruitless to have a discussion about it. You still haven't even acknowledged the signings of Dedmon and Ilyasova and how that completely goes against anything Hinkie would have done when he first became GM. Also the fact that the 76ers nearly missed the salary floor in two years because Hinkie did not care about putting together a roster that could win in the near-term. Completely different from what Schlenk has done this offseason.

20 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Cut the big contracts, make deals for picks.. .find value... Lose competitively. 

Except if Schlenk did this, then Schröder would have been one of the first players traded for the best deal available regardless of how many first rounders it would be.... As Schröder is 1. a big contract and 2, doesn't fit the "lose competitively" part... I'll concede to you that Schröder won't be able to net the same return that a 22-year old all-star PG in Jrue Holiday did back when Hinkie traded him, but that has nothing to do with what we are talking about in terms of Hinkie's strategy.

43 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Oh.. .Bank.. one last thing on the trade.. before you go all willy neally. I forgot to also mention:

 

Jrue Holiday, Pierre Jackson  for  Noel, 1st round pick in 2014 draft (lottery)...

and

They drafted Michael Carter Williams (to replace Holiday) who won the rookie of the year award that year... in a landslide.

If we did that... I don't think that there would be a Hawks fan that hated the GM. 

 

Oh and another thing... Why do you think MCW won ROY that year? Probably because the 76ers had no one else on the roster to play and he averaged way more minutes than any of the other candidates. Fun fact for you: The oldest player on their roster that year was Eric Maynor at age 26 who played a whopping 8 games for them. They wanted them vets though. Not to mention they had a total of 23 players play at least one game for them that season. How close do you think Schlenk will ever get to that 23 figure?

44 minutes ago, Diesel said:

He did so much that New Orleans went out and PAID Rondo to be their PG.    He did so much that he led a team with Anthony Davis to a 34 win record.   He did so much that with Davis and Boogie Cousins... they were 15-18 in the last 3 months of last season. 

Now... they may be a whole lot better this year but Philly needed a PG not a combo guard.  Maybe NO is finding out now what Philly knew then.

Keep reaching. We don't even know if Rondo will start. Either way, I usually think it is a positive to have a player versatile enough to play two positions. Also I like how you failed to mention Holiday getting the Pelicans into the playoffs the second year after he was traded. 34 wins is almost double what Noel achieved this year.... So like I said before, Holiday has achieved a lot more than those assets generated in the trade thus far. You do realize that NO just signed Holiday to a $126m/5year deal right? Noel is still hoping someone will give him a contract so he doesn't have to just sign that lousy qualifying offer. But yea damn win right there. So much so that the 76ers had to quickly cut bait with him for a bunch of nothing.

Philly actually does need a combo guard now since they have Simmons, but whatever.

37 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Oh.. .Bank.. one last thing on the trade.. before you go all willy neally. I forgot to also mention:

 

Jrue Holiday, Pierre Jackson  for  Noel, 1st round pick in 2014 draft (lottery)...

and

They drafted Michael Carter Williams (to replace Holiday) who won the rookie of the year award that year... in a landslide.

If we did that... I don't think that there would be a Hawks fan that hated the GM. 

 

Keep reaching. Not sure what MCW has to do with the trade, but I'll play along with you. What did they end up doing with MCW and why? If you think the Hawks are following the same path, then you should expect Collins to be traded next year right? Why hasn't Bembry or Prince been traded similar to how MCW was?

Lol some Hawks fans were mad that we traded Korver for a future 1st round pick. You were mad that we took on Crawford's measly contract for a first round pick. Could you imagine how upset Hawks fans would be if we traded a ROY (despite it being a weak rookie class) for a first round pick? I can only imagine how pissed you would be since you think taking on Crawford wasn't worth the 1st round pick. Nice contradictions.

18 minutes ago, Diesel said:

You act like Philly didn't want Vets.  They went out and traded for AK47 and he refused to report.... ala Crawford.  They made good deals with the players who had value. 

You want to talk about what I want from Schlenk.. it's very simple... Make good deals.  I don't mind that we're tanking.  But if we're going to tank... make good deals.   The signings of Schlenk right now are not evaluatable.   However, the Crawford Buyout... The D8 trade were both not great. 

My point is still though... it's the very same general plan as Philly.  

1. Convert High Salary into Picks.
2.  Lose Competitively.  
3. Build through the draft.  
4. At some point get good enough to go after big name free agents. 

You and others are trying to say that the general plan is different because Hinkie traded young players for Picks.  What I'm saying... while in tanking mode, those were GOOD deals.  You trade a 22 year old PG who is coming up on a contract year in 2 years because

1. You get 2 lottery draft picks for him
2. You have no proof that he will stay during the rebuild.

You say we kept Dennis... as a sign that we're not like Philly.  That's laughable.  Why.

1. Nobody is giving us 2 lottery picks for him.
2. He's signed to a long term deal already.

But ask your peers... 

If Sacramento would have given us DeArron Fox and their 2018 first round draft pick (top three protected) for Dennis and Moose....  Ask them.. how many of them would take that deal? BTW...at draft time.. most of the people thought that Sacramento would be crazy to trade just  #5 for Dennis... so there you go. 

 

 

Are you actually going to try and claim that the 76ers wanted veterans on their team because they traded for an expiring contract in AK47? You're just going to ignore all the other facts of them being way below the salary cap and never going after vets in free agency. Yet, you are going to try and say they wanted vets because they used their salary cap space to be able to help Nets dump AK47's contract...... Whew boy that is quite the reach for a conclusion.. Don't forget they received a 2nd round pick in that trade for taking on AK47's salary and we all know how much Hinkie loved his draft picks..

I mean did you actually read the stuff that you quoted to me previously?

"The Philadelphia 76ers recently acquired Andrei Kirilenko for another chance at compiling future second round picks."

Then there is this: https://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--sixers-want-andrei-kirilenko-to-report-to-team-063304792.html

"The Sixers want Kirilenko to start working his way back into playing condition and eventually be activated to play in games. Ultimately, this could set up the opportunity for Philadelphia to deal Kirilenko for an asset at the NBA’s February trade deadline, or let him reclaim his market value for free agency this summer. Nevertheless, it is unlikely the Sixers would keep Kirilenko past the trade deadline – either hunting down a way to deal him for an asset, or simply waiving him."

Keep stretching with that conclusion of the 76ers wanting vets though, despite everyone else stating that the 76ers wanted to get the 2nd round pick from the Nets initially and then hoped to get more draft picks later for AK47...

You were using inaccurate information previously to make your conclusion about the Crawford buyout, thinking his salary cap hit would be the full $28m. You thought $28m over two years wasn't worth a 1st round pick. Then even after proving to you that it would be somewhere near a $11m cap hit this year (potentially lower once we learn the buyout) with a negligible hit next year, you still say it wasn't worth it. Idk what to say if you think that isn't worth it for a 1st round pick. What player/contract did you want Schlenk to use that salary cap space this year on instead of getting a first round pick?

We already discussed the D8 trade, so no need to bring that back up. You continue to think you know the value of a player better than all the other GMs and think Schlenk took an inferior deal on purpose for whatever reason. You also fail to mention Millsap saying the most important thing he wanted in free agency from a prospective team was "functionality"... Wonder why he would say that?

Why would you need proof that he would stay during a rebuild when he is your rookie and you are able to extend his contract or match any offer?

Sorry that wasn't Philly's game plan. They didn't convert high salary into picks.. They didn't even have high salary players lol... They traded young, low salary assets for future picks because they wanted to lose and ensure a top draft pick until they finally hit on a super star. They didn't lose competitively. Their GM purposefully wanted to lose to ensure top draft picks. Build through the draft - that's a generic statement/strategy. We haven't even seen enough of Schlenk to know how exactly he wants to build. He has said that you want flexibility to go after a potential star (ie. Harden and the Rockets).

Here you go contradicting yourself again. Let's look at Philly's Step 1 that you YOURSELF claim "Convert high salary into picks". If we were following the Philly playbook, as you suggest, then why hasn't Schröder been traded for picks???? Hinkie would have traded Schröder in a heartbeat like I said.

I honestly don't what Schröder has to do with the 2 lottery pick scenario you are claiming. My guess is you are trying to make a connection to what the 76ers got for a better Jrue Holiday. Not sure how that is relevant. My previous point about Jrue Holiday was you suggesting that trade as a "damn win" with using your hindsight analysis. Bleacher Report at the time gave it a B for the 76ers and an A+ for the Pelicans (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1687222-sixers-pelicans-trade-grading-the-nerlens-noel-for-jrue-holiday-swap). The point isn't what Schröder could net us in a trade. The point is if it was a 76er way of building that Schröder would have been traded already for future assets, like you said yourself in your Philly general plan of trading high salary for picks. Not sure how that is laughable, using your own judgment and analyze of what Philly did.

But yea if Dennis was putting up 18pts and 8assits while shooting 37% from 3 and being known as a great defender with great size and, oh btw, an all-star at age 22... Then I don't know if I would trade him for Fox and another first round pick... I certainly wouldn't be going around throwing a parade and calling it a damn win like you would though.

9 minutes ago, Diesel said:

What has Holiday done since?

They got 2 first round Lottery picks out of the deal.  You are damn right I would throw a parade.  You act as though the tank was the only mission there.  They got two Lottery picks for him.   What 22 year old allstar PG is worth more than 2 lottery picks?

Noel was the #6 pick of his draft.  This was the scouting report for him:

Many people expected Noel to be the #1 pick overall in his draft class.  He dropped to New Orleans and they traded him and another 1st rounder to Philly.   That's good tanking. 

 

Holiday has done more than Noel, Payton, Saric, and anything else the 76ers got in that trade... Your logic is hilarious if you're actually asking that question in this scenario.

Still using that hindsight aren't you? Why not actually use logic and grade the trade at the time of it happening. No guarantee that the other 1st round pick is in the lottery at #10 as the Pelicans did the trade in hopes of making the playoffs, which they eventually did the following year.

Can you believe the 76ers dumped a pick that people expected to be #1 for basically a bunch of garbage in Justin Anderson and 2 2nd round picks? Why in the world would they do that if Noel is as good as you think? Maybe this is another case of you thinking you are better at determining a player's value than the other 30 NBA GMs. I'm thinking it is. Great tanking though you're right........

Either way, I am still so confused by your points.... You're making zero sense. You're trying to say that Schlenk is following the path of the 76ers, yet all your points have been proven to be completely false and you haven't made any real connections between the two. Here I will again disprove your point. Hinkie traded his only true asset at the time in Holiday to purposefully tank and gain future assets. If Schlenk followed this path as you are claiming, then why hasn't Prince, Bembry or Schröder been traded?

15 hours ago, Diesel said:

Are you kidding me...

If we traded Jrue Holiday and got back Nerlens Noel and a 1st rounder... that turned out to be the 10th pick in the draft...  We would throw a damn parade for Schlenk.  A PARADE... and you say that it's Debatable?  Just being disagreeable aye?  By the way..   you could have had a better argument with trading payton.. .because he is a 6.5 apg PG right now... However, that got them Saric and Could have had Fox... so that's not a great argument either. 

 

 

 

Hindsight is strong with you isn't it? Philly traded a young, legit PG coming off his first all-star appearance because they didn't want to extend his contract basically. Full on tank move. They received 2 first round picks for an all-star PG at the time who was 22..... You would throw a parade for your team trading a 22 year old all-star PG for two first round picks?

15 hours ago, Diesel said:

Which free agents were jumping to go to Philadelphia again?

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/20150112_NBA_veterans_don_t_want_to_play_for_Sixers.html

 

Please... consider that second quote as it pertains to us in the future. 

 

I'm confused....  Are you agreeing with me here? Because Schlenk went out to get veterans and wants them to actually play, whereas Hinkie only wanted them to trade. Seems to be completely different to me. Also the roster Philly was putting together vs. what we have currently is materially different. Philly went from 19 wins to 18 to 10. People still think we could come close to 35wins. Your comparison is just flat out wrong.

Weren't you also the one saying we should have just let Dwight and Crawford sit on the bench being disgruntled? A perfect way to try and attract veteran free agents... I can't follow your logic here at all. Sorry.

What signing did you want Schlenk to make that he didn't? You gotta give some actual substance here instead of just crying "tanking!"... Did you want him to bring back THJ at $71m/4years? Did you want Paul back at $90m? I don't see any signing that Schlenk missed that would have put us closer to a championship rather than having the future flexibility from a cap perspective.

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

Look a little closer.

 

Jrue Holiday.  

July 12, 2013: Traded by the Philadelphia 76ers with Pierre Jackson to the New Orleans Pelicans for Nerlens Noel and a 2014 1st round draft pick (Elfrid Payton was later selected).

 

If you look at that trade... it was a damn win for Philadelphia.  

Evan Turner.

ebruary 20, 2014: Traded by the Philadelphia 76ers with Lavoy Allen to the Indiana Pacers for Danny Granger and a 2015 2nd round draft pick (Luka Mitrovic was later selected).

 

This was a cap clearing Move.  They made the mistaking of paying Turner 14 Million per year.  TO get out of the bad contract, they traded him for an expiring contract.   Didn't we do something worse with D8??

Thaddues Young. 

August 23, 2014: As part of a 3-team trade, traded by the Philadelphia 76ers to the Minnesota Timberwolves; the Cleveland Cavaliers traded Anthony Bennett, Andrew Wiggins and a trade exception to the Minnesota Timberwolves; the Cleveland Cavaliers traded a 2016 1st round draft pick (Timothe Luwawu-Cabarrot was later selected) to the Philadelphia 76ers; the Minnesota Timberwolves traded Kevin Love to the Cleveland Cavaliers; and the Minnesota Timberwolves traded Luc Mbah a Moute and Alexey Shved to the Philadelphia 76ers.

For somebody who is not that productive.. to trade Young for a future first... is not a bad deal. 

 

Elfrid Payton. 

June 26, 2014: Traded by the Philadelphia 76ers to the Orlando Magic for Dario Saric, a 2015 2nd round draft pick (Willy Hernangomez was later selected) and a 2017 1st round draft pick (De'Aaron Fox was later selected).

If done correctly...

Trading Payton for Saric, a 1st (Fox) and a second is a DAMN WIN.

 

So... their rebuild and our rebuild have the very same hallmarks.. Saving Cap and drafting high.  Then trading for better talent when possible...   Isn't that the same thing we're doing?

 

 

Jrue Holiday one is debatable. They are still feeling the consequences of not having a legit point guard. Basically traded a legit PG for two first round picks. Idk about that being a "damn win"...

Turner was a cap dump I guess... But he was only getting paid $5m/year, not $14m per year. This looks like an obvious tank trade to me though... Turner was expiring and was their highest PPG player at the time. Basically traded him away for nothing.

Thad Young for a 1st. I think it all depends on the where you are at competitively. Obviously 76ers weren't ready to compete so getting a first for him wasn't a bad deal.

Elfrid Payton trade. This one is a win for the 76ers, but has nothing to really do with them tanking or not. Just that they likely had Saric higher on their draft boards and knew he would be around two spots later. So why not trade away your pick to gain an extra first and 2nd for only 2 spots. But I think also taking a draft-and-stash in Saric is indicative of what they were trying to do.

If Hinkie was running the Hawks right now, then you probably would have already seen Schröder and Bembry traded. Maybe he would have kept Prince. You DEFINITELY wouldn't have seen vets like Dedmon or Ilyasova signed.

11 minutes ago, Diesel said:

 

2.  IS Diamond Stone and a first worth the Capspace that Crawford's contract ate up?

In essence, we paid 14.2 Million this year and 14.5 Million next year for Stone and a late first. ... Is it worth it?

Crawford only has $3m guaranteed for next year, not $14.5m. Also we don't know the terms of the buyout yet, but it is highly likely that his cap hit will not be $14.2m this year.

I think that is an easy deal from our perspective to get a 1st round pick.