Bankingitbig

Has anyone seen any actual terms of Crawford's buyout? Curious to know how much we agreed on that will impact the cap.

2 hours ago, ATLSmith said:

Check the espn app again today.  Replays normally show up the day after.

Watching it now on the "Watch ESPN" website. It's also on the app too.

Just now, GameTime said:

Brooklyn has to wait a week before they can offer him any deal.

What does KCP have to do in a week? I'd gladly wait 6 days to sign my max contract if the team promises me it.

1 minute ago, GameTime said:

Who is gonna pay him? I think we can get him much cheaper.

BKN once WAS matches their offer for Porter. Even PHI could offer him quite a bit.

I'll pass on KCP for the type of money he wants.

46 minutes ago, REHawksFan said:

That's not at all what that tweet says. It clearly says the Hawks had planned to match any offer but now they're tested because of the extreme magnitude of this one.

I don't recall seeing much written or said about the Hawks saying they planned to match any offer for THJ. I don't think Sam Amick is in the know. That said, it is always in the best interest of a team to say that they will match any offer no matter what to scare teams away from tying up their salary cap for a RFA.

3 minutes ago, HawkItus said:

I think purposely let those players go.  

As for Philly they haven't completed this yet.   And as winners they have a lot of misses (MCW, Okafor) Boston actually hasn't done much with the assets from the rebuild.  It has been shrewdness/luck with FA and trades that garnered the recent success.  Again for every winner there are losers.  Even when those winners are pointed out it is a large amount of luck that benefited them.  Everything wrong is that you can be on the right track and end up right where the Hawks just got off.  Even the writers in Philly see it.

http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/Sixers_Jazz_Gordon_Hayward_What_happened_to_could_happen_here.html

I disagree somewhat about Boston not doing much with the assets from the rebuild. Crowder was from the rebuild. I also think them having all those BKN picks is a big reason why Horford chose to sign there. Same could be said for Hayward. If it was only Horford, IT, Crowder and Smart with late first round picks, then I think Hayward would likely stay in Utah. But now add in two top-3 picks (Brown and Tatum) and another likely top-3 pick next year.... That's a lot of potential to help a team out on cheap contracts or that could be spun for other assets.

Fully agree that there is a large amount of luck involved, but I think that is the same for any path to a championship.

49 minutes ago, HawkItus said:

Boston hit on IT, Crowder, and stole Horford.  All those were 50/50 propositions at best.  Utah did a measured rebuild like we are said to be doing.  They won 25 games 4 years ago.  Portland went for 28, 35 wins 5 and 4 years ago.  They were rebuilding, but as you say blew it.

I guess I have different definitions of a good rebuild. Just because you lost a bunch of games doesn't mean you went the correct rebuild route to me.

Portland went from 48 wins to 28 wins because of injuries... Not because they were rebuilding. They had Aldridge, Batum, Mathews already and then were able to get Lillard due to only winning 28 games. They continued to build around those guys.

The Jazz lost 25 games because they lost Millsap, Al Jefferson and Mo Williams in free agency (top 3 out of 4 in PPG for them that season), along with losing Carroll without getting assets. They made one rebuilding move in trading Foye, but that was probably more to open up space for Burks. It's somewhat similar to us in that we never rebuilt when we should have and just lost a bunch of starters in free agency without getting much back in return.

I guess I am just confused on how this article "breaks down everything wrong with a rebuild" when it shows Philly (the notorious rebuilding team) as a Winner and Boston as a Winner. The two teams that TRULY did a rebuild and did them the more "correct" way in terms of trying to acquire as many young assets and picks, hoping that some pan out, while maintaining cap flexibility.

10 minutes ago, HawkItus said:

Reading those do you not see how Boston is not supposed to be where they are, but nailed a few items.  Had they missed on those they are looking at 2020 to even be competitive.  Utah did most things right, but now are stuck in the middle.  The same with Portland.  I disagree with him on Philly because it is still all promise.  Nothing concrete.  All though with the East so bad if they don't make the playoffs this is a failure.

How is Boston not supposed to be where they are? They did the rebuild exactly right. Sold all their vets for picks and young assets all at once. They are an outlier in that they were lucky that there was an owner (BKN) looking to compete no matter what at the exact time that they were looking to rebuild. Obviously they have hit on some stuff and made a great signing with Stevens, but that's what happens when you have a somewhat competent front office doing a rebuild.

I don't recall Utah really rebuilding. They just kept competing and hit on some drafts with Gobert and Hood, along with making a great signing in Snyder.

Portland is the EXACT opposite of a rebuild, so not really sure what that has to do with this and there is A LOT that they did wrong.

Sorry I skimmed through the article on parts about the Hawks, Jazz and Blazers, but I didn't see anything where he "breaks down everything wrong with a rebuild plan"... In fact, he gave a "winner" rating to the 76ers.

The only misstep I see him mentioning is us taking on Crawford. I don't really agree with him that we shouldn't have taken on his $14m salary this year and only $3m guaranteed next year. We have the cap space available this year, so why not get a first round pick for cap space and a take a flyer on a young guy in Stone. Next year's $3m will mean nothing and can even be stretched if needed.

On ‎7‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 5:42 AM, thecampster said:

This leaves them a theoretical $40,892,855 to spend.  Assuming the 2 2nd rounders and their stashed Euro make the roster, that's 3x560k each or 1.68 million more.

 

Sorry this is nitpicky, but curious where you got the 560k salary? I believe the minimum salary in the new CBA was $815,615.

On another note, I don't want Bojan Bogdanovic at all. I still want Muscala back at a reasonable deal. Would take Willie Reed and wouldn't mind trying to take JaMychal Green from MEM. Think we could use CJ Miles' shooting and vet presence as well.

Thought THJ would get this deal before free agency began, but then thought it would be closer to $14m/year after seeing other offers and the Waiters deal.

We have plenty of cap space to match it, but I don't think we should. THJ needs to improve quite a bit to make this deal moveable with its 15% trade kicker. Don't want to be sitting on three contracts (Bazemore, Plumlee and potentially THJ) that aren't moveable for guys that aren't true starter worthy. I'll take the cap space instead for now.

32 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

We got a lot of shooting so I doubt that but man, we need more vets 

We do? Where? Belinelli is probably our best shooter right now and that's it. Everyone else is average or below at 3P%.

12 hours ago, Lurker said:

Since I don't feel like doing another thread, here is my thoughts on this offseason...

Plan B:

Sign Willie Reed and Jamychal Green.
Bring back THJ.

In either case, see if a more spaced out floor helps to rebuild Bazemore's value.
In both cases, you're trusting that Bud's development system is for real.

Plan B was my prediction for this offseason prior to free agency beginning. My $ offers were way too high for Green and a bit high on THJ. Also have us bringing back Muscala. Still think this is a likely scenario, but need to see what exactly happens with Crawford.

That is a crazy good deal for Millsap. I was shocked when I saw that the third year had a team option on it. Always thought Schlenk's talk of "remaining competitive" was skeptical, but now we know that's a ton of BS since we didn't beat that deal. That said, maybe Millsap wanted to go to DEN instead of remaining in ATL. They have a better roster.

2 hours ago, Peoriabird said:

Their were several offer discussed over social media about what other players were being offered...Like JJ Redick, Andre Iguodala  etc.  There is not even a tweet support that an offer was even made to Millsap.  Its not like they have a ton of competitor to conceal there secret plan from.  So why no reports of an offer?

Paul Millsap's agent is his uncle who probably has no desire to be leaking offers, whereas other players are represented by traditional agencies that likely leak more to try and get the market up for their players. I also didnt see anyone leaking Redick's offer until right about the time that he accepted, but could have missed it. Heard about Andre but not much actual substance in terms of monetary value.

42 minutes ago, capstone21 said:

Excellent pickup by Minny .... he fits their need well ... Saps options has really dwindled to basically Denver.

 Gotta think Sap has an offer from DEN that MIN couldnt match which prompted them to go for Gibson. Or they couldn't find teams to take Dieng's contract. Thought DEN was the most likely scenario for Sap prior to free agency and would now be somewhat surprised if he doesn't end up on their team.

29 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Can't believe they would give up an elite defender and passer in Rubio for the most average PG that ever existed in Jeff Teague. Stunned at the Twolves being that insane.

They need shooting and Teague would be a better fit for that reason. Also Teague can play off the ball and let Butler be the ballhandler some whereas Rubio can't. 

18 minutes ago, Hotlanta1981 said:

That roster wins 20-25 games. 

If the goal is to win games next year, then we should just sign Millsap to the 5-year max right? Have to be realistic about where our current roster is at while not hurting our future.

On ‎5‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 7:28 PM, NBASupes said:

You are Travis Schlenk. Predict the off-season. The winner gets nothing but being the winner. +1 for each roster spot you get right. Ready start. 

 

You are Travis Schlenk.

On the eve of free agency and now that the draft is over, I decided to quickly put in my predictions. I am assuming a salary cap of $99,000,000.

Guaranteed contracts heading into free agency. If we renounce all cap holds, then we would have $37m in cap room.

• Bazemore $16,910,113
• Schröder $15,500,000
• Plumlee $12,500,000
• Belinelli $6,606,060
• Delaney $2,500,000
• Prince $2,422,560
• Collins $1,936,920
• Bembry $1,567,200
• Dunleavy's partial contract $1,662,500 (could stretch this, but I don't see the point)

Free agency

1. Let Millsap walk. The most likely Sign-and-Trade scenarios are Houston and Minnesota, but the problem is we would likely be stuck with contracts that we don't want, such as Ryan Anderson ($61.3m/3years) or Gorgui Dieng ($62.8m/4years), without assets to compensate for this. Houston just traded away their 2018 first round pick for Chris Paul, which prevents them from trading their 2019 pick. Minnesota just got a 2018 first round from Utah in the Rubio trade, but I don't think taking on Dieng is worth having that pick. Maybe they also throw in Tyus Jones, but I think I would still prefer the cap space flexibility. Hopefully Denver wants to do a sign-and-trade and Millsap wants to go there. Our return would likely depend on what their plans for free agency are and if they need to shed some salary. The likely player they would want us to take is Faried ($26.7m/2years), which I would be fine with if we got other assets. Maybe they give us a first round pick and also Malik Beasley, who we can put in Hawks University. I would also glady take Arthur, who I think would be good in our system. Overall, I think it would take some real creativity for a SnT to Timberwolves or Rockets and I don't see Denver giving up too many assets since they could have the cap space to sign him.
2. What to do with Bazemore and Plumlee's contracts? I think it is going to take attaching the CLE or MIN first round picks to move each of these contracts (one first rounder for each). I don't think we move them this offseason. We don't need the cap space. Let them get closer to expiring when they will be easier to move.
3. Match offers for Hardaway Jr. up until $60m/4years. This comes out to be an average of $15,000,000 per year. Rumors are that Jonathan Simmons is going to get a deal that is equivalent to $9m/year and Reddick is pushing for a $16-18m/year deal. I think Hardaway has some more growth in him and his age fits our timeline. I almost think I would be willing to go higher than this deal, but would want to see how the market is going.
4. Resign Muscala to $21m/3year deal that is front loaded. If I am Schlenk, I would be trying to make all the deals front loaded this offseason because we don't need the cap space. I think Muscala is a very serviceable big off the bench that can really stretch the court. One of the best Centers shooting the three ball. Still young.
5. Sign JaMychal Green to $74m/4year deal that is front loaded. Problem with Green is he is a RFA and could be matched by MEM. He doesn't have the offensive/playmaking abilities that Millsap has, but he is cheaper and younger. That said, some will definitely say this is an overpay for him. He can stretch the floor as well as Millsap, if not better. He also has the ability to play some Center if needed. On his last year, he would only be making $17m/year, which should be manageable given cap increases.
6. Sign Willie Reed to $15m/3year deal that is front loaded. Not that many good Centers out there. Want Dedmon, but I think he takes the MLE and stays with SAS. Baynes is another option, but I think Reed provides more value. Reed gives us good rebounding, defense and toughness.
7. Sign CJ Miles to $14m/2year deal. Not sure if he would sign a two year deal given his age, which is why its a bit larger per year than he would likely get for a four year deal. Good shooter and gives us a veteran presence. Was thinking maybe go after Ben McLemore instead to bring into Hawks U, but think the veteran presence of Miles will be better. Maybe I just give him a large one year deal also.

Final roster and 2017-2018 salaries

• Green $20,000,000
• Hardaway $14,000,000 (cap hold at $5,704,013)
• Bazemore $16,910,113
• Schröder $15,500,000
• Plumlee $12,500,000
• Muscala $7,368,421 (cap hold at $1,471,382)
• Miles $7,000,000
• Belinelli $6,606,060
• Delaney $2,500,000
• Prince $2,422,560
• Collins $1,936,920
• Bembry $1,567,200
• Dunleavy's partial contract $1,662,500 (could stretch this, but I don't see the point)

Total salary would be $109,973,774, but due to Birds rights on Hardaway and Muscala we would still have $3,219,252 left in cap room if we wanted. I also didn't use the Non-Taxpayer MLE or Bi-Annual Exception, which I believe are worth $8,406,000 and $3,290,000 respectively.

Active roster would be:

• Schröder / Delaney
• Hardaway / Belinelli / Bembry
• Prince / Bazemore / Miles
• Green / Collins
• Muscala / Reed

I actually think this roster if coached well enough could make the 8th seed in the East, but it would be close. Weak spots would be PG with Delaney still at backup and Center. Would probably start Muscala at Center, but could envision many nights that Reed gets more minutes.

Anyways, I honestly have NO IDEA what Schlenk's plan is this offseason. I honestly don't see too many free agents that are obtainable, young and have upside. I think the Green signing would be heavily criticized, but I just feel that we would have so much cap space and need to use it on something. Why not use it on a guy that has shown great improvement and could still be improving.

Too hard to say honestly. We just don't know enough. I have given my fair share of criticism towards Wilcox, but I don't think anyone outside of the organization really has enough information to properly evaluate him.

For example, what role did he have in Al Horford's negotiations and losing Al for nothing? Did he want Dwight and Bazemore or was that more Bud? Do we give him full credit for Prince or was that someone else? Also have to wait and see what we could potentially get for Millsap this offseason in a SnT - maybe its somewhat equal to the value we were being offered at the deadline.

Anyone know much about him? Looks like he was pretty good last year in D-League. Quick YouTube clips shows that he has pretty good vision and can run an offense as point, not sure about how his defense is or anything. Is he good enough to be 2nd backup PG?

4 minutes ago, marco102 said:

Why is no one  discussing signing Paul to a 3 to 4 year contract at a reasonable  letting him staying around a year or two and flipping him for some first round picks?  That's a very real possibility. 

 

First - Millsap isn't signing for a three year contract anywhere. He's getting a 4-year max at least or very close to it. He's too old to be signing three year deals.

Second - another very real possibility is the Hawks having to include first round picks in order to get a 34 year old player making ~$40M off their books.

Don't think this is the best move because our entire salary cap would be tied to KCP then and we wouldn't be able to try and sign other free agents.

It takes away our flexibility as well.