Yeti

I would have passed as well. Horford is the last guy I would trade.

I agree with your conclusion - IT CAN HAPPEN. Everything you said about Seattle is true, but there were some strange goings on. David Stern made a promise to his buddy, Clay Bennet, that OKC would get a team after they hosted the Hornets post-Katrina. When the old owner of the Sonics, the Starbucks CEO, wanted to sell they promised they wouldn't move when they bought the team. Then they deliberately broke the team down until it was garbage - got rid of the popular players, the popular coach, etc and posted a franchise worst record. So the attendence dropped until the NBA could pretend that they were doing the right thing by moving. They also outsmarted the local politicians - who later were voted out. Later they found that the new owners emails showed they had never any interest in keeping the team in Seattle and had planned to move it from day 1. Basketball is still big up there, they now have 15 locals in the NBA (including Jamal Crawford, Marvin, and Jason Terry). The Sonics had a good history up there. So it could happen to Atlanta too.

I'd be thrilled if we got a taller version of Marvin at the 48th pick. But it doesn't look good.

They need to do something. Current lineup won't get to the next level, so we either make a move to improve or just blow it up and start over (again). The players are getting older and the competition is getting better. No change is not acceptable. Hawks ownership and management haven't been dedicated to winning since Ted sold the team.

I agree that Joe is a better athlete. But considering his age, Dirk was amazing. He is a very smart player and you are right on with your comment about leadership and competitiveness. Its interesting just how universally Miami is disliked. Seems like the whole country was rooting for the Mavs. Of course LeBron just made it worse with his comments yesterday, "All the people that was rooting on me to fail, at the end of the day they have to wake up tomorrow and have the same life that they had before they woke up today. They have the same personal problems they had today." - Boo hoo, "everyone hates me." Can't believe I used to like that self-centered @$$.

I cringe at the thought of putting Josh in a position where he is EXPECTED to shoot long jumpers. I love the guy - he's emotional, firey, and incredibly athletic. I love watching him go to the basket and play defense. But he has his little hissy-fits and is unprofessional at times. And he keeps shooting 3's although everyone is the building is yelling "NO !!!". He just doesn't seem too bright. He hasn't done the things he needed to do to become a better pro. So I'll easily take Al if forced to make a pick, but I'd rather keep both. I hate to say this but ... Diesel was right (choke, gag, ...) - the guy to leave really has to be Marvin. He never panned out. He's from a small HS in Washington, not from the Seattle area that generated a lot of good NBA players, went to college for one year where he played well but was never a starter, and then to the NBA. He never really learned the game and Woody couldn't teach a fish to swim, much less develop young talent. Marvin missed his window - he either needed to stay in school to get more experience or get drafted by someone who could work with him. He's too passive. He's just a nice role player now. Now it's time for a change, we really need a good small forward. ... But with no draft pick this year, our options are limited. Maybe putting Joe at 3 is the right idea. But the thought of using Josh to shoot outside is too scary for me.

I do agree that the NBA is no longer as respected as it used to be. But I would argue that the real culprit was Stern. He fostered this "STAR" attitude where individual performance was encouraged more than team play. Some stars were good guys like Jordan, and others were not, like Iverson. The league now puts up with any kind of behavior and has learned how to control their image. Like many other businesses, the only goal is profits at any cost. I fit your demographic and I watch a lot less NBA than I used to (except for the Hawks), I just can't stand watching some of the ego-monsters. It's amazing that Stern has survived all the scandals - cheating refs, fighting in the stands, guns in the locker room, drugs, rape charges, nude pictures, wife beating, punching coaches, shootings. Yeah, maybe they ARE thugs, but the real thug is Stern.

1. Can't win if all we do is rely on JJ. Jordan needed help and LeBron couldn't do it by himself either. It has to be a team effort to win. JJ has to be part of that, but the idea of relying on a star to carry the team is wrong. 2. I have been a Marvin supporter for years, but no more. He has never developed and he's too old to change now. Need a replacement or shift Joe to 3. 3. I'd do the trade in a heartbeat, and get the best center out there (Kanter?) or maybe another shooter. 4. LD has done better than I expected, but since we are dreaming I'd rather have Doc or someone more experienced. 5. Don't really care. He's actually kind of funny.

Why do you think he doesn't want to be moved? He is about as far from home as you can get and still be in the US. I've been a Marvin supporter since he was drafted, but I'm ready to trade him. I was hoping a new coach would turn him around. If we don't trade him soon, he'll have no value.

Sad thing is that we aren't asking who was our BEST draft pick ever. Not sure who would even be on the list - I think even Dominique came on a trade. Soooo many bad choices to choose from. I read the comment about Sheldon but I still can't believe we took him.

I've been a Marvin fan since day one, but I agree. It's time to show up.

Great. Because we sure have great chemistry now. And WHAT championship contender? Neither the owners or the players believe in that. Maybe a dominating presence who actually has won championships would be a good thing in our locker room, how could it be worse? You know, someone who actually wants to win. Do you really think we are getting the maximum out of the players we have? It's going to take a slap upside their heads to get them to change - not a pep talk. But it is all mute. We are standing pat. Everythings riding on Drew now - can he develop rookies (unlike HWSNBN), can he get Teague to be an effective PG, will the players buy into his motion offense? And if it doesn't work it is HIS fault, not the owners or Sund.

Yes. Definitely. But the only way it was bareable was that we could always dream about how good the team WOULD be. But now it is here and nowhere close to what we dreamed of. The owners had a different dream. And it looks like we are a year or so away from rebuilding again. If we lose Horford it is all downhill from there. I could easily see Horford not re-signing here, trading Marvin, and losing Crawford. After that we have the JJ and Josh show - which will not last long. We'd then have to trade one or both for draft picks and start the whole process again. - I know this is cynical but that has been the way it is since we traded 'Nique - we keep "rebuilding".

You are right. There HAVE been way too many guys who got a chance just because of their height. And then they get classified as a project and people keep hoping they'll develop. They never do. There is a long list of failures. They stick around way too long just because they can get their hands near the basket without actually jumping. And then remember Manute Bol 7'7", Muresan 7'7", Shawn Bradley 7'6", and Chuck Nevitt 7'5". At least they played. If height were enough they'd all have been great. If you are desperate today you can try Will Foster 7'5" who couldn't get playing time at Gonzaga. But like Horford, there have been a lot of successful NBA centers who were under 7' - Russell 6'9", Willis Reed 6'9", Moses Malone 6'10", Bob Lanier 6'10", Nate Thurmond 6"11" - of course they all played within their teams and didn't try to take over like Kareem, Wilt, or Shaq did. Can we do that? - I guess that was what Diesel was getting at ... just getting a 7-footer doesn't mean squat. Al may have to work a little harder, but he can be certainly be successful. And while I'd like Shaq for a backup, getting just any 7' pile of meat doesn't help. - (I wonder if Al would get any benefit from the old Russell/Chamberlain tapes.)

Not sure that matters if you have an owner with deep pockets who wants to win. I can't see our current owners luring in the talent since they can't promise that they will do what ever is necessary to win. They are more financially limited than most owners. Miami has an extremely wealthy owner (#2 in the NBA). Unless we can get these guys to sell the team to the next Ted Turner, we'll have good but not great teams. And no Howard - at least until he is past his peak.