Mikey

3 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Pretty much, Utah got 5 1sts for Gobert. For us, we need about 10 and all unprotected otherwise we just doing SA a massive favor 

Lol the gobert trade is an anomaly. Anybody expecting that kind of package for a small guard is delusional. Filler + our picks back + one or two additional assets 

1 hour ago, theheroatl said:

I think Wolves think they found the winning formula. Banking on KAT being available is like expecting Lebron to sign with the Hawks.

 

There are plenty of other fish in the sea.

I would agree just curious to see how it plays out in post season. If he has another bad series and they are a quick exit I think the tune will change quickly. Luckily for them their ownership appears to be committed to pay whatever to field the best team. Does that team include KAT after April may I think still has some question marks 

12 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Trae ain't getting traded to San Antonio so are you saying, no chance KAT comes to Atlanta. 

Never say never. I think both options are certainly on the table. Minny resigning Conley does dampen the KAT chance however 

I know a lot you guys saw Wemby and Trae spend a good amount of time with each other yesteday...

They won't ever trade Trae unless he requests a trade himself but remember who told you guys he's been planting this seed

47 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

He doesn't have defensive versatility for starters so that point isn't a bad one but he can rim protect and paint protect and while NBA teams are valuing paint protection a lot less than rim protection, teams with Trae Young need a lot of paint protection to keep the randoms from spamming the paint. I do agree, teams are going away from drop coverage bigs. That's a fact. They want rim protector who can switch and provide good size and can be versatile. The 5 has become a defensive position. 

Okay, I agree on this part for anywhere he lands especially if he can adjust to the pace of the game. 

He's also an elite PnR finisher with an elite feel for movement and drawing contact.

I agree but the last part on the minutes, i believe if he can adjust to the pace, 30+ mpg is possible. It's if the team will allow it or want it is a different question. 

I agree. 

Now where we differ. 

We aren't most teams. We spam the 5 primarily due to Trae who uses the center as an extention of himself. We suck at modern defense, primarily due to Trae and his lack of measurements and physical abilities defensively. So the drop isn't a bad option for us. 

So we have one player who's worth 50 wins on offense and we can give him a player that can add 10 wins on offense and maybe even add 5 on defense for Trae and turn him into a legit MVP candidate, why should we pass on this guy?

I get why he's not worth it for others in the lottery because they would have to change everything they are doing but we don't. We can continue doing what we generally have always done. He fits what we do. 

I guess it really comes to where they draft him. I think hawks would be 10th ish pick if season ended today and personally I don't think he should go that high. If they took him with Kings pick i could talk myself into it. I also still have some hesitancy that this will be a trae team in a couple months. Likely will be but lets see how it plays out. 

13 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Bro, I love you bro, do me a favor. Can you give details why at best he's going to be a career backup. I am interested to see your take as to why? 

We really haven't had anyone his archetype since Yao Ming. I am all ears

I don't think he has the defensive versatility to be a starter/play starter minutes in this league. He can only play in one scheme (deep drop) and that scheme has shown time and time again to be problematic with the level of talent in ball handlers in todays nba. Now when you play that periodically as a backup he can thrive imo. Offensively he is a great screen setter and hes good in post ups but teams aren't living in the post anymore and spamming post ups. Having a guy clog the paint just isn't a thing anymore. This season no team has more than 8.5 post ups per game. The league has just moved away from this kind of player. He will be good in spotty minutes but 30+ mpg I don't see it.

And like I said. Being a career backup is not a bad thing at all. Getting a solid backup big between picks 16-30+ would be a good outcome for every team

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I was partially convinced when I created the thread because the pace is a serious item. Gobert adjusted as did Andrew Bynum and Roy Hibbert but you got guys like Thomas Welsh, Bol Bol, Udoka Azubuike, and Vernon Carey Jr who did. It's gonna be interesting. I just haven't seen anyone this good fail in the NBA. Ever. And for it to be this damn good knowing how we spam 5s, this might be our get our of team building jail card we been praying for. 

Now that I seen some of the low IQ BBIQ posters come and just valid my concerns aren't even as big a deal as I may think it is. I am now sold on Edey. He's my top player on the board. I haven't seen a center this offensively good ever in college ball. Jokic is better, sure but he didn't play college ball.

He is going to be career backup. Not a bad thing at all but that is not someone you take in the lottery. The bigger than everybody archetype is not one to bet on

Pls god do not draft Zach Edey.

A name I am keeping my eye on is Tyler Smith. Love his fit on both sides of the ball in Quin system. 

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

Yes, that's what I'm referencing.  But it gets us cooked like on the first play of the game Wednesday when Dusunmo just drove past Trae for a layup.  You need really good chemistry and communication on defense to do what Snyder is trying to do with our defense, and we don't seem to be vocal enough right now.

Yeah I was doubling down on your comment. I think it just shows the hawks coaching staff know on both sides how the game is being played and they are gonna build the roster accordingly to do that.

The first pick of the Quin regime was gonna be Cason or Kobe. Both who are good individual defenders and most importantly good team defenders. As they rotate the talent and people get more accustomed to playing in scheme the defense will get. Think you’re seeing better defense lately but still at times it’s poor and it’s cause the current personnel is mostly bad team defenders. This roster will look drastically different in the summer I think 

1 hour ago, JeffS17 said:

In my opinion, Quin is in a year of evaluation more than anything, and he's not hiding anyone or giving anyone breaks.  I'm guessing he learned from his Jazz stint that holding even your worse defenders accountable is pivotally important, and he has absolutely done that here.  It will be interesting to see how he shifts things going into next year.

He’s changed his scheme completely from what they were doing with gobert in Utah. He knows just living in deep drop isn’t gonna work and he’s challenging hawks players to improve even if drop is best for a bit like Clint. 

9 hours ago, Sothron said:

I have been told if you put a gun to Quin's head he'd rather keep DJ and trade Trae to have Dj back at point but that's the cash cow we're talking about.

I feel like I will start to sound like a broken record about this but I don't care. This team every year under Messy Ressy is literally one of the cheapest teams in the NBA. Every.damn.year. We could have easily signed someone with the MLE to address the POA defender role. We could have used the TPE from JC to do the same thing. Newp. We just sit back and do nothing so Messy Ressy continues to have a bottom four or five payroll in the entire league.

While true none of these things would make them a contender. The team is not close and hasn’t ever been 

I don’t expect them to own two picks on draft night but as is I would expect one pick to be used on a big and the other on a wing. If they move a pick it’ll be BPA among the two position groups. If I had to put a name right now I’d say Flip is being looked at hard 

3 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I did hear Atlanta has serious interest in Daniels but not for Murray or OO. It's going to be interesting during the draft. Atlanta seemed to really covet Daniels. 

They’ve had this interest dating back to him being in the draft. For the star they are trying to get in the summer they are gonna need dyson type player starting at the 2 

Welp many of you got your wish. That 10th seed or 8th seed at best is about to be real enjoyable I guess. Onto the summer

2 minutes ago, AHF said:

No Herb, no Murphy yet they want DJM & OO?  

No ****ing way.

Yup thats why they are far a part. Hawks are more than willing to do Dejounte for Dyson and Picks. Griffin is asking for a center upgrade in process 

Just now, Hawkish said:

I’m so curious what they are offering that would, in their eyes, require OO to be added.  He isn’t a trade topper.  He changes the entire concept of the trade.  

Nothing which is exactly why negotiations are far apart right now. They want Onyeak without including herb who hawks want if they are even gonna consider dealing onyeka

15 minutes ago, Sothron said:

last I heard was Pels are trying hard to get DJ/OO without giving up Zion and BI and we want one of those back for that kind of return. 

David Griffin wants Onyeka in the deal and hawks to this point have refused to put him in unless Pels up their side of the deal. This deal would easily happen if they take away their ask of Onyeak. One hour left and lets see what happens. 

20 minutes ago, AHF said:

When you show me picks that will actually move the needle to get the next player I'll be excited.  Things like the 2029 Lakers pick won't be enough.  (Obviously if it was the Lakers would have already flipped it for that kind of player.)  This is the whole point of the discussion.  Will the picks we get be enough to motivate a team to deal us a star.

This is what I'm seeing that New Orleans has:

2024 Lakers Pick* - Projected at #14 - Mid value due to weak draft and good odds of ending up outside the lottery

2024 Pelicans Pick w/ Mil Pick Swap - Projected at #21 - Low value due to weak draft and position  (ability to swap with Bucks in 2024 is worthless)

2025 Bucks Pick - Projected mid to late 20's - Mid value due to strong draft combined with bad projected position

2025 Pelicans Pick - Projected mid 20's (with DJM) - Mid value due to strong draft combined with bad projected position

2026 Pelicans Pick w/ Mil Pick Swap - Projected to be late pick but real upside - Mid to solid value due to possibility that either NO or Mil has a terrible season

2027 Bucks Pick - Hard to project - Solid value due to uncertainty about the future of the Bucks discounted for being 3 years away

2027 Pelicans Pick - Hard to project - Solid value due to uncertainty about the future of the Pelicans discounted for being 3 years away

 

This is how I view them as a baseline for value.  Any protection of these picks reduces their value beyond that.  What is good about New Orleans is they have a real volume of assets and as you get a few years out that opens the door to one of these picks being a lottery pick.  

This is why I'm asking which picks.  Because it makes a HUGE difference which picks we are talking about for how likely those picks are to land a star.  It is not like "two first round picks" are just inherently equal in value.  For example, if you are talking about the Pelicans 2024 pick (with added protection for top 15; converts to two seconds if doesn't convey) combined with the Bucks 2025 pick these don't add up to a lot of trade value because (a) you can fairly reliably project where the Pelicans will finish this year and how strong the Bucks will be next year and (b) the 2024 draft does not have a lot of value.  If you are talking about unprotected 2026 and 2027 picks then those have much more value since the spectrum of reasonable performance expectations is much much wider.

I don't know which of the 2 picks it is but I do know it is not the 2024 picks. Would assume its a pels pick in 2025/2026/2027 and one of the bucks picks

Also stop putting Trey murphy in your trade packages. That is a not even a conversation starter

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

 

 

 

 

Going to find out today how much Oneyka is a sticking point in these conversations. I don't think he is one and they could get a deal one without him but I can't say that with certainty. Fun day ahead

16 minutes ago, Sothron said:

can confirm obvious: DJ held out for possible trade reasons.

Pels talk is getting more serious. This might have to wait until the offseason to make a trade happen.

They asked for onyeka and hawks told them F off lol. See if they get common ground tomorrow 

15 minutes ago, AHF said:

What picks are you talking about with this deal?  Hopefully not more "mid to late 20's garbage picks" like the other deals you've said were great.  Murray needs to bring real value not a limited role player and picks that most likely would turn into role players 2-3 years down the line for us.

Until we give up on Trae we need to make contending with him the top priority.  

I’m not doing this again lol. Picks are good. You can speculate where they end up but New Orleans has a bunch of picks; their own, Milwaukee, and a lakers pick. Any choice of them is good and I view Murray as a stepping stone to make another deal. Murray straight up for a star or impact player is very unlikely to happen (could but unlikely). 

This season is a wash. They could get 7 seed and maybe make a fluke run but getting assets in a Murray deal to use to facilitate the next deal is not a bad thing. Grade the trade however you want for the short term but when those assets are flipped for player x I think you’ll change your mind 

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

Hahahaha. We just have different valuations for Murray. Getting a good young player who is also defensive minded + multiple picks is good package. Murray to me is not worth more than that and I’m not sure why he is to so many on here too when we got him for 3 picks. Recouping 2 to use in a deal in summer is good