Mikey

3 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Ausar is basically a more offensively talented Sarr but at a position we need more. Whereas Sarr is a position of need for Detroit at the 4. 

I actually can’t believe you think this. Did you watch him at all this season? 

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Ausar is more offensively promising than Sarr. 

No way you actually beleive this. He’s a complete zero on offense. 

3 minutes ago, Hawkish said:

Can Sarr reach prime Tyson Chandler level defense?  Tyson Chandler with more respectable offensive tools is what I envision for Sarr.  

From a physical profile that is exactly his comp. Every database suggests that but he will need to fill out his frame. Something he seems reluctant to do at the moment. Though he is also an athletic freak unlike some of his comps. Defense will be his impact and the hope is he reaches those levels. I think he can and should given how he can play in any scheme and is best with how Quin wants to play now

7 minutes ago, AHF said:

Gym videos don't move me but I also don't rule out Edey developing into a useful jump shooter.  His >70% ft% is a good start.  Our coaches saw that potential in JC despite having basically nothing but low post play in college.  Brook Lopez wasn't a 3pt threat until years into his career but it defines him offensively today.

So I don't rule it out and wouldn't have expected to see him showing off his jumper in college.  It would have made no sense for Purdue to have him play anywhere other than near the basket - the team revolved basically around him scoring near the basket and opening the floor for the rest of the team to shoot jumpers.  Having him trying to catch and shoot 3's or something would not have worked because the rest of the roster wasn't capable of pressuring the rim.  

If you are seriously considering drafting Edey, you should absolutely bring him in for a workout and pressure test his jump shooting.  There is no question that he is much more valuable as an NBA big if he has a jumper than if he does not.

He is no longer in the discussion (if he was at 10) for the Hawks so I don't expect we will work him out.

Im not saying he cant be good and won't shooting. Edey has some good indicators that he will be able to shoot some such as his touch and his ability at the line. But when you say open gym videos then I am out on that reasoning lol.

Edey was never in play. The creation of that thread on this polarizing player got it in some peoples head he was in play. Hes not that guy and they'd ever consider and fact that he's still discussed after we got 1 is hilarious. You want to talk clingan go for it but that archetype of player is never selected 1 either and can be found in literally every draft

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

I misunderstood you. Even so, Sarr 3pt shooting is a negative right now. Is that really a coup to claim?

Edey out shot Sarr at most shooting drills. Sarr FT and left college 3 is the only areas Sarr beat Edey and even then, Edey was 90% to Sarr 100%. I don't see your point. They played in the same gym and Edey came out ahead and he wasn't allowed to do it in college. I don't know what else to really say

He wasn't asked to do it in college. We had a player like this who was a stud early on for us. Remember this guy

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I misunderstood you. Even so, Sarr 3pt shooting is a negative right now. Is that really a coup to claim?

Edey out shot Sarr at most shooting drills. Sarr FT and left college 3 is the only areas Sarr beat Edey and even then, Edey was 90% to Sarr 100%. I don't see your point. They played in the same gym and Edey came out ahead and he wasn't allowed to do it in college. I don't know what else to really say

He wasn't asked to do it in college. We had a player like this who was a stud early on for us. Remember this guy

 

 

 

Edey didn't come out ahead thoguh lol. Sarr was 15/25 and Edey was 14/25. So if you want to use open gym numbers someone won...

As far as indicators go Sarr beats him at literally everything. Especially off the dribble jumpers which I don't even think Edey has a sample size off lmao

Just now, NBASupes said:

When you say this, I can't take it seriously. You are saying his skill set, his impact, his data, is zero. That's bulllshit. So in that case, no prospect data matters. That's horse shit. 

He literally won back to back NPOY

Tremendous metrics 

https://tankathon.com/players/zach-edey

His testing results for Centers is off the charts. As I have said, if we had RAS for Basketball, he would be in the 99% percentile. 

I really don't see any way he busts. Even if he just ends up being a 6th man at best. 

I've compared him to Jalen Brunson and IT0. Obviously not the same type of player but I can see his career path similar to those two and since he's a center, his impact rates will be much higher than either player. 

When you say this, I can't take it seriously. You are saying his skill set, his impact, his data, is zero. That's bulllshit. So in that case, no prospect data matters. That's horse shit. 

He literally won back to back NPOY

Tremendous metrics 

https://tankathon.com/players/zach-edey

His testing results for Centers is off the charts. As I have said, if we had RAS for Basketball, he would be in the 99% percentile. 

I really don't see any way he busts. Even if he just ends up being a 6th man at best. 

I've compared him to Jalen Brunson and IT0. Obviously not the same type of player but I can see his career path similar to those two and since he's a center, his impact rates will be much higher than either player. 

What does this have to do with his shooting??? Nobody is talking about Edey the player or the prospect which you are defending. He has not shown he can be a three point shooter at all outside of some ONE DAY of shooting at the the combine (mind you he didn't even finish in the top 20 of the drill). Saying sarr is shit when he has displayed the skill vs another player who has quite literally never displayed it at a high level is just a mere projection by you and a very out of range projection at that. If open drills are what you care about then certainly sarr should receive a bump for doing well in the drill right?

Will Edey shoot some threes at the next level? Probably. Could he even be serviceable at it at one day on extremely low volume? Possibly too. but OPEN GYM VIDEOS??? are we fr? There was so much you could have used as an indicator edey could shoot but open gym? and mind you all these indicators suggest sarr should be pretty good. Yall don't argue in good faith at all when you like a player lmao. Open gym videos as justification man. Is this how draft discourse on this forum will be for the next month?

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

We haven't seen them do it with any level of consistency and based on Sarr numbers, he's shit at them. Sarr projection is 33% to Edey's 32%. That's really nothing and Edey wasn't allowed to shoot 3s at Purdue. Let's stop acting as it's something he can't do

Edey projection is zero because he has not shown in yet. Same has Clingan. The fact that you are using OPEN GYM shooting to justify it is hilarious. You can say sarr shit but hes a willing shooter who has actually displayed the skill at that level. These other two guys are not shooting at all yet.

Just now, NBASupes said:

All #1 picks have tremendous expectations 

Number 1 picks don't go to teams with 10th best odds usually

48 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Trae is our best player and our franchise player

He's a solid B- to B level drop coverage 5 who when he gets a lot more experience, should be an A level drop coverage 5 like Marc Gasol by the beginning to middle of his 2nd contract in the NBA. For Trae, drop coverage matters a ton because he's world class awful at off ball defense. 

He doesn't defend anywhere near what you think he does. Nowhere close. He covers space but our issue is protecting the paint and he's not good at that. Clingan is great at it and Edey is good at it. He lacks too much size and bulk. He will help wonders for switching but switching sucks for us because of Trae off ball defensive failures. 

All of these guys have the same threat rate from 3 and Sarr isn't a center at all. Edey and Clingan are capable 3 point shooters. We seen it two years in a row from Edey in the NBA Combine workouts. I don't know what else you need to see. It's not like he's shooting 28% from 3

Using open gym shooting drills to justify someone capability. I have seen steven adams hit threes in open gym. I watched dwight howard drill oepn threes in shoot around before a playoff game. That is not capability.

3 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Then he will bust

If you say so lol. Defensively he is ready to contribute. Offensively he ways to go. Thats a player that will get on the court

5 hours ago, Sothron said:

I have not been giving the okay to say anything about Mitchell or Cleveland other than to say this. Read into or not into what you want.

Yes the interest is real. He loves Quin and Quin loves him. 

Not a clean fit. Defensively they can't be any worse than Trae and DJM but offensively would be so much better since Donovan is actually a stud off ball and an elite scorer. The hope is you are building Quin's Jazz teams but with better wing play since their best wing player in that time was Royce o Neal. Ideally though even if it doesn't work you can move Trae in some time and still have an elite star to move. I would be interested to see how Trae plays when someone better than him is on the team

35 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

It should play a factor with anyone. The question is, what does all three of these guys bring. 

Edey is an elite movement big with two specialities, big man movement and low post movement. 

Clingan is a two way big who has big man movement and he's a terrific drop coverage big.

Sarr is a 4 who's a terrific defender with terrible offense but shows a shit ton of flashes and he's pretty good right now in the open court. 

Obviously, with all three, you hope they get significantly better than they were this past season but thinking that because someone is 19 it will happen isn't the correct line of thinking. Older prospects develop as do young prospects but depends on the situation, the coaches, the fit, the role, the personnel grouping, etc. It's a lot the players can't control. I would not take Sarr and think he would be a success the way Atlanta currently constructed. Sure! If Trae is gone and we just tanking, sure, his chances go up 100x. In that case, I am interested. But anyone trying to sell his bad metrics and claiming him and Trae could fit is idiotic babble and it's really a personal like without intelligence being used. We went through this with Murray. Murray was an all star. Stud. Hell, he's better last year than he was in SA so he got better in Atlanta and his fit with Trae is shit! 

Sarr don't play nothing like a big that would fit with Trae. He doesn't even play like a big. 

Why do some of you guys only talk about his offensive fit with Trae? When his impact long term and especially in year 1 is the fit defensively. This dude will clean up so much for these awful defenders we have while giving us scheme versatility. Plus the hawks have not had a center that was a threat to shoot on offense since what Dedmon?

1 hour ago, Afro said:

 

Like I said they have no clue what is happening with him yet. But just cause discussions haven’t happened to this point doesn’t mean they can’t happen 

34 minutes ago, KB21 said:

No.  I understand it perfectly.

You cannot develop winning habits when your goal is to lose games.  Period.  End of discussion.  There is clearly a difference in doing things to lose games with intent and doing things to win games and coming up short.  One way, you develop bad habits that are hard to be broken.  The other way, you develop good habits that can be built upon.  

Bad teams lose games. There is no way to put it. You can do everything right and still lose. The pistons did not try to tank this season and still lost 29 straight. It’s about talent. You are more likely to get that picking higher than hoping it falls into your lap. End of story. 

https://nesn.com/2021/06/recalling-how-celtics-brad-stevens-felt-about-becky-hammon-lloyd-pierce/amp/

Not respected yet here is executive of the year Brad stevens raving about him. But KB knows all

KB wants to be the bulls right now. Ask those fans how they are enjoying these season. Those winning habits you seem to be preaching really coming into play as they stay a 38 win team forever right? No chance at top players but I’m sure one will fall right into their lap at 11 right? 

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

Lloyd wasn't an up-and-coming assistant.  No other team would have hired him to be a head coach.  Notice that he hasn't gotten even an interview for a head coaching job since he ran the Hawks into the ground.  

Bud wasn't against rebuilding.  He was against tanking and coaching to lose games.  

[] He hasn’t gotten a job because he was awful to the star player he had A job for… 

no team wants a head coach that is awful with relationships. It doesn’t take a genius to know that. He was swooped up immediately for an assistant position tho but I guess that means nothing to you. 

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

Lloyd wasn't an up-and-coming assistant.  No other team would have hired him to be a head coach.  Notice that he hasn't gotten even an interview for a head coaching job since he ran the Hawks into the ground.  

Bud wasn't against rebuilding.  He was against tanking and coaching to lose games.  

You pick and choose which comments to respond to because those are only the ones you can spin. Bud has never been about rebuilding and he certainly hated the fact they hired a president of basketball ops… 

There is not a single benefit of being the 10th worst team vs being the 5th. Not one. Both teams can develop winning habits. But one gets the best chance at having luck at your side. You don’t seem to understand this because your team building philosophy is just built on luck. And luck plays a big part in franchise building so why not try to maximize it. Being in the middle is the worst place in sports 

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

You can't develop talent without focusing on winning habits, and you can't focus on winning habits when you are trying to lose games.  Lloyd Pierce was hired for one reason and one reason only.  He was hired to lose games, and they knew he wasn't good enough to win games.  Bud was forced out because they knew he could milk more wins out of the group they gave him than a bad coach would.  So, we hired Pierce.  We lost games.  We didn't develop players properly.  That's the result of tanking.  That's the only result you will ever get with tanking.  

Bud was not forced out because of this []. He was out because he did not want to give up roster control or rebuild. Lloyd was hired as a young and upcoming assistant to build with the team. Our best season ever came running his schemes btw. He was horrible at relationships not scheme.

They lost games because the roster was bad. That’s what happens when you use your cap space to get more picks and take overpaid shitty players. Again showing you lack the process behind all this. But I’m sure in your head if we stuck as the 10th worst team entire time a star would just fall into our laps since that’s your favorite building strategy  

29 minutes ago, KB21 said:

The 76ers absolutely threw games.  The Hawks intentionally hired a bad coach to lose games when they hired Pierce.  

Not to mention the sixers lack of championships isn’t because of tanking. It’s because of health and poor draft choices and other mismanagement like giving Tobias Harris a max contract. The hawks are not in the position today because of tanking they are in the position because of bad lottery luck, weak classes, and poor choices again. Luka doesn’t want to come here and then our star makes us trade for djm. None of that is because of tanking 

27 minutes ago, KB21 said:

The 76ers absolutely threw games.  The Hawks intentionally hired a bad coach to lose games when they hired Pierce.  

We aren’t talking about the sixers. We are talking about the potential 24-25 hawks. And your comment about Lloyd shows your lack of knowledge about how he was an how he was viewed as an assistant. He was wifey regarded and hired as a DEVELOPMENTAL coach which is exactly what happened under him. When it was time to win games it was time to move on 

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

What makes the environment different?  "We are trying to win games" vs "We are trying to lose games".  That makes all the difference in the world.  You don't develop winning habits when you are actively trying to throw/lose games.  

Nobody is throwing games lmao. Young teams are bad for a reason. They aren’t throwing games they just don’t have the talent or experience. Keeping a player like Dejounte isn’t helping winning habits when he’s a locker room cancer and would just take all the shots 

23 minutes ago, Sothron said:

None. The Bucks are not trading Giannis for just Jalen, two future firsts and salary. They would demand and get the #1 pick

Sarr is never gonna be Giannis good surprised people don’t want this option. 

trae Giannis makes you a championship contender day 1. Something this franchise has not been for 25+ years 

3 hours ago, KB21 said:

The pro tanking guys have always had the belief that all you have to do is be bad, draft a top player, and you will suddenly be a championship team.  It's so foolish!  

Wait till you guys realize you can develop the 5th player as good as the 11th. But inherently the 5th ranked player is going to be who you believe is better. 

Y’all logic is so flawed it makes no sense. The rookie isn’t going to be in a better environment suddenly because you are in the middle vs bottom 5. Your environment is the same. You’d rather the 5th pick over 12th every time