Mikey

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

It means you don't apply any pressure at the rim when shooting outside of 10 feet, and he applied very little pressure at the rim last year which is what you were claiming he did this season (at least before the injury).  I'm saying the past 4 YEARS he hasn't pressured the rim in a meaningful way and that includes the 2020-21 season when Lonzo Ball played 55 games.

What I'm reading now is that while he doesn't apply pressure at the rim as a meaningful part of his game for the last 4 years, you believe that would change and he spend a lot more time attacking the rim in Atlanta due to how differently Atlanta's coaches would utilize him.  Is that a reasonable understanding of your take?

Is rim pressure to you only attempts and not efficiency and attempts? 

I think it is reasonable to say his shot profile will look significantly different under Quin then it does now because that has been true of pretty much all the players under Quin. Now should it shift drastically no but it will improve 

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

My concern is this.  Is there a legitimate pathway to becoming a top 4 seed in the East this offseason?  Because I think we will have to be a top 4 seed in 2024-2025, or we are going to lose Trae in a year anyway.  

Probably losing Trae this summer anyways so…

32 minutes ago, AHF said:

So why did BI take substantially fewer shots around the rim as compared to DJM?

Ingram:

DJM:

Does that mean he applies less rim pressure because in his situation he shoots less at the rim then in ATL where shot diet is an emphasis? 

13 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Neither one of them attack the rim.  They both have very low free throw rates because they don't attack and get into the paint.  They drive and then pull up at the free throw line.  

The perfect fit alongside Trea is Trey Murphy, who is a POA defender and takes over 6 catch and shoot three-point shots a game.  

Free throw rate doesn’t mean they don’t attack the rim lol. Watch BI this season before the knee injury he got to the rim and attacked gaps willfully. He’s shooting like 73% at the rim this season lol 

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

Even then, his 3PAr was .350 and .341 with the point guard.  So, he's still a guy who is predominately a mid-range jumper kind of player.  

He was attempting 6 a game when he had a pg. that’s more than enough. I believe 4 per game was catch and shoot. Off the top of my head I think that’s how many saddiq was getting this season (someone with a reputation for shooting 3s). Now imagine that in Quin offense lol 

you too hung up on his perception as a player 

17 minutes ago, aali34 said:

What the hell happened

He stopped playing with a point guard like lonzo. This tweet from Grant Shirley is a direct comment on what BI said in their exit interview that he wishes they target PG and his best season came playing off jrue and lonzo 

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I like BI a lot more than some of you guys. I don't like him as much as @Mikey but I see him as a reasonable offer for Murray even if I know Murray has better value. 

Hard to sell me on Issac for Murray and I want Issac. I just don't see the Comp as reasonable.

To be clear I don’t exactly love the idea of BI on the hawks or the player. Herb is who they are focused on and should be but I understand a world where BI is the best return they can get for DJM and he’s better fit and player to me than DJM

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I think your post below the initial tweet was confusing.

yeah probably. his tweet was about trae I was talking about dejounte though.

25 minutes ago, KB21 said:

There has to be more coming back to Atlanta.  CJ is not a prize.  Herb fits the Hawks most dire need for POA perimeter defense.  However, more has to come back for Trae.  

I dont know what more you guys want then possibly the best perimeter defender on one of the best contracts in the league. DJM is not valuable around the league...

This guy hears things on the pels side. Now what he is suggesting is for Trae and not Dejounte but sharing to say what many of us already know. Hawks covet Herb more than anybody on the pels roster. The BI + Dyson deal is cool but it is not what they are focused on. They didn't take Herb for DJ + Onyeka at deadline but I think it will be a big conversation in the summer

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Then if you going by career, they would choose him over Herb Jones and Murphy but they going by this year to the future where those guys are better and have much smaller salary demands. 

and the hawks covet both of those guys over BI. Problem is they aren't available 

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

The only difference I see is that Ingram is essentially a bigger Murray.  The fit issues with Trae will continue because BI doesn't like to be a volume three point shooter.  He instead loves to play off the dribble and get to his middy.  Problem there with both he and Murray is they rarely ever attack the rim.  They settle for that mid range jumper.  Defensively, Ingram isn't a POA defender either.  You would hope his size would give him some advantage over Murray, but bottom line is he isn't an above average defender.  

BI applies a ton of rim pressure which this team does not have currently 

12 minutes ago, warcore said:

The bolded is the only one I can agree with. Everything else is debatable. And I noticed you didn't mention anything about rebounding. 

And the bit about BI being a better defender really hurts your argument. 

Dejounte is a horrible defender. You guys got to stop talking about his reputation as a defender from his lone SA year where he did well. He is only a good off ball defender. On ball he is awful and it doesn't matter what position he plays. Coby White just gave him 40 in their last game. DJM cannot guard a parked car

18 minutes ago, AHF said:

2023-24

Brandon Ingram - 20.3 ppg

Dejounte Murray - 22.5 ppg

DJM as a PG > BI > DJM as a SG

2023-24

Brandon Ingram - 5.7 apg

DJM - 6.1 apg (DJM also enjoys a better A:TO ratio)

 

 

Combine the scoring and playmaking:

2023-24

Brandon Ingram - 2.7 OWS, 1.4 OBPM

Dejounter Murray - 3.3 OWS, 2.3 OBPM

Bigger?  That is the first one that is obviously correct.  But it does beg the question of why DJM outrebounded BI this year when BI so much bigger.

 

They are as similar players as you could possibly hope for in a trade scenario.

I mean comparing stats for one season doesn't do much to me when they are in different sitautions and DJM stats get a bump for when his first option was out for a month plus. Not to mention more assists doesn't mean you are a better playmaker by any stretch. DJM can't even make a lob pass. His assists are the most simple assists in the game. 

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Murray is better than BI. 

Superior contract

Much better trade value

Murray does literally nothing better on the basketball court than BI. Better scorer Bi, Better defender BI, better playmaker BI. Bigger Bi.

Now he does have a far superior contract so i see the value side but BI potential contract also means nothing cause I doubt his injury history injury suggests he's getting that max

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Definitely a trade from Pelican fan. How we gonna trade the player with higher value and give up a higher pick in the process

Other than NO highly targeting OO and us for one of their POA defenders. This ain't bad once you remove #10

Casue BI is a better player and this draft class the tier of player from 10-21 won't be drastically different like other drafts. That account isnt a normal pels fan btw. He knows someone in the org

Its like 6 people lol. Just a dumb poll they run everyyear for these headlines

17 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

They made a run at him during the trade deadline but NO wanted more value than Atlanta was willing to offer. 

From what I've gathered, NO wants to keep Marshall. 

They should. Nice cost effective option for them to have in their wing rotation that we figure will take a hit in the summer with Dyson and BI

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

I've been watching the Pels often lately and I can see BI being better in Atlanta than NO. 

There is more C&S opportunities in Atlanta. 

He wouldn't be who the defense sent all of their coverages too as long as Trae is there. 

While he's not a POA defender, when motivated, his man defense isn't bad at all. His length and size helps. 

It's clear why they wanted Murray. They don't have a PG who can run sets outside of Jose A and he doesn't really have the offense to play many minutes. Too small and not dynamic enough. 

Murray's defense would be superb in NO. His style doesn't work here, we don't have enough defenders to protect his high risk style but in NO, they do. I wouldn't be shocked if he was all NBA defense in NO. 

It seems like BI and Murray would equally benefit from a move. 

OO and Dyson Daniels would too. Daniels got like 4 POA defenders in front of him in Jones, Murphy, Jose, and Marshall. Defensively, he's close to those guys but all of those guys are capable shooters, he isn't. 

OO would fit perfectly spliting mins with Jonas. That system fits him and OO iso defense would do wonders for them in the playoffs against exceptional bigs. 

This is one of those obvious trades that benefit both teams. 

Feels like its only a matter of time the sides discuss. Hawks likely to go after marshall in FA too 

This is a move that has me actually believing they’ll pay the tax next year. With ressler however it’s always wait and see 

4 hours ago, ShooterSays said:

I'd argue our most successful backcourt was Trae / Bogi / Huerter

Max Spacing

Any lineup with bogi has been massively successful last couple years but them two starting together doesn’t solve the biggest issues that have plagued us for years… poa defense 

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

If we get the Kings 1st. Use it to draft Collier or Devin Carter. I prefer Devin Carter. Forrest stays at 3rd string

Move Dre back to the bench as a backup 3. 

I liked Bogi as a starter. If you trade Murray and OO for let's say Ingram and Daniels, you bring Daniels, Dre, and Kobe off the bench. 

Resign Bey for less since he has to redshirt next year. Resign Vit as well for long term. 

JJ splits time with Dre and Gueye at the 4

Edey and Capela split time. Bruno stays at 3rd string fighting with Edey and Capela. 

Resign Lundy to a 2 way deal. 

That's what I would do. I would want Daniels over picks as he gives us another POA defensive wing off the bench. 

Bogi can't start in a backcourt with trae. The would need daniels to start for POA defense and to preserve bogi health

You guys still trying to make murray and trae working is one of the funniest things ever. all the information is right in front of you on how that pairing doesn't work yet people still saying keep them because they don't understand what they gave up for murray doesn't matter anymore. It is the worst two man lineup on the team. They have a better win percentage and better net rating when one sits. Murray is gone

32 minutes ago, AHF said:

I think Trae and DJM need to be split.  Both guys had positive net ratings when the other was off the court and they were highly negative when both were in the court.  I’ve never seen them synergize.  One needs to go, imo.  As always, you need a real return on the trade but I think we are in trouble if those two are starting next to each other to start next season.

!!!

13 hours ago, KB21 said:

So we are going to trade one guy who favors mid range jumpers over three pointers for another guy who favors mid range jumpers over three pointers.  

Just like with Hunter and Murray Quin will get this changed for Ingram lol. Ingram been significantly underrated this year and took a step back in scoring to playmake and defend. He is an ideal 2 next to Trae. Ingram wasn't talked about a ton at the deadline but he will be a big discussion this summer. Dyson is likely to come to the hawks in deal too.