Dragitoff

13 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

What are some other moves you anticipate being available to us that might be better?  When I go through the list of teams that need a starting point guard, it is not a long list.

If we could get Suggs and Isaac from Orlando, that's a trade that helps us with defense and Isaac also adds size.  He doesn't help with health as he can't stay on the floor.  I also know that trading within the division is tough and Orlando might be reluctant to give up two rotation pieces from a team that just made the playoffs for the first time with this core. 

8 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I'm not buying the idea that he failed when given the chance to start.  He averaged 16.1 PPG, 8.5 RPG, with a .723 TS% as a starter.  It's a small sample size, but it's not like he shit the bed when given the chance.  I think it is far more likely that there are some things Quin wants him to do that he (Quin) doesn't quite have confidence in him doing on the court yet.  

I wasn't referring to the few games he started.  I was making a blanket statement over the entirety of the season.  He started slowly and did get better as the season progressed, but he missed plenty of games due to injury and didn't make the jump most of us expected him to make.  Clint clearly regressed this year and it created an opening for OO that I don't think he fully took advantage of.  I'd still take him over Capela even next season.  I just think it's less of a given that he's the long-term answer for this squad than maybe it was this same time last year. 

3 minutes ago, bird_dirt said:

Of course we could keep OO and still get bigger by moving him to PF and JJ to SF, then Dre or BI to SG. 

I don't think Hunter's knees allow him to guard 2's anymore.  I also don't know that JJ shoots enough yet for him to be the primary 3.  Watching Mitchell dismantle Orlando's elite defense and length because they didn't have guards that could defend him and Garland both was part of Orlando's undoing.  It's a big part of why our defense is so bad.  Trae's defensive shortcomings are well known, but Murray's rep as a POA defender was either wildly wrong or he slipped.  I'm not a defensive metric guru so I don't know which it was.  All I know is he struggled to consistently be the defender he was supposed to be for us.

One more point I failed to make.  OO at center absolutely can work if we have the right personnel around him at the 2 and 3.  Jalen is fine for what you want size wise at the 4 and he can rebound well for the position.  He has the potential to switch as well.  If you get size at the 3 via draft (Rissacher, Buzelis, etc), trade, or FA, you could be good long-term. 

3 minutes ago, KB21 said:

I really wonder how much of OO not being made a starter has to do with just how much Quin wants him to do on the court.  OO has gone from Nate McMillan's very simplistic defensive scheme where he wasn't asked to do much to now he has Quin, who will want him to play drop against this team and switch more against that team.  Then the injury happened.

Definitely valid questions that I'm not smart enough to answer.  I just hear the team publicly talking about getting bigger and OO did little to improve his chances as our starting center last year when a prime opportunity to presented itself.  Those two things make me feel like he's less locked in as our future center than maybe he once was.  He's also starting to give me Hunter vibes with injuries.  We should really evaluate our training staff with all the injuries last season.  Geez. 

10 minutes ago, KB21 said:

You better have a plan at center that doesn't involve continuing with Capela or drafting a certain lumbering big in the draft.  

I agree; however, I don't know that OO as our starting center is as much of a sure thing as it seemed prior to last season.  OO didn't play poorly, but he also did nothing in my mind to raise his stock.  Clint's regression should've opened the door wide for him to gain a foothold as the current and future starter, but I don't think he did that.  He's always been undersized for the position, but his switchability potential made up for that.  If we're trying to get "bigger" as a team, starting a guy smaller than our already slightly undersized center at the same position goes against that. 

25 minutes ago, kg01 said:

Just snuck that in, huh?  I'm the only one that caught this multi-laywred line?

Yeah, Ingram isn't my first thought as far as making us better.  But if it's Murray for Ingram and Daniels, I can see it as Ingram replacing Murray and Daniels giving us something we've lacked.  So, although folks like @KB21 are arguably right in citing Ingram not being the defensive presence we need, the combination of the two can arguably be a net gain for us.

We'd still have work to do though, which I assume the front office knows.  We simply can't have the current C rotation next year.  We just can't.  Can't! 

We'd have to add salary to Murray to make the deal work so I'd see Capela or Hunter in the deal to match salary.  If OO is included, that nets us a better return.  I think Murray and OO might be the only chance we have of getting Herb back.  Even then, we'd be crucified for that deal even if it makes us a better team in reality because everyone knows you win games on paper.

On 4/2/2024 at 12:50 PM, KB21 said:

Per Synergy, Ryan Dunn allows his opponent 4.2 PPG on 28% shooting on the year.  That's unbelievable.  His 2.4 blocks per game lead the ACC.  This is a 6'8" wing player leading the conference in blocked shots.  

The bad?  Ryan Dunn hit 11 jump shots in 30 games.  That's 11 jump shots total.  He shot 26.8% on jumpers for the year, and he was only 22% on unguarded jumpers.  

The defense is elite.  The offense is undraftable.  Where he lands on your board will depend upon whether you think you can fix his shot.  

He reminds me of a big Andre Roberson.  That dude was a defensive savant but terrible shooter.  This is worse than even he was.  He worked because those Thunder teams he started for had some pretty elite offensive talent around him

I think point of attack defense and a true 7 footer should be our targets with our projected 2 FRP this year.  Unfortunately, this is a weak draft, but if we're only trying to draft rotational players, I think we can find those.  The problem is we don't know for sure who will be here next year.  Is Trae or DJM gone?  Is Capela or OO gone?  While it's probable on both questions, knowing the direction of that could drastically impact that decision.  If OO is your starting center, you desperately need a bigger backup center that is capable of playing now (most lilkely) because it's unlikely you keep Fernando as the primary backup behind OO.  You'd likely get killed against bigger centers.

Dunn is about as plug and play as you get defensively, but is also the poorest offensive wing defender we could have interest in. 

13 minutes ago, terrell said:

Mavs got Gafford too??

Theyre good at Center now..

Shouldve sent them CC before the draft when we had the chance.. Geez

THis F.O. isnt showing me ANYTHING so far..

To be fair, Gafford is younger and makes less than Capela.  With Lively playing well as a rook, I think the ship had already sailed for Capela and the Mavs.  I think there were other teams that would've made sense for Capela though. 

3 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Wait so what is the deal?  Herb Jones and picks for DJ?   How is that attractive to us?

Jones is a long, athletic defender that's hitting 40% of his 3's.  If we are going to build around Trae, you need defenders with length that can hit open shots.  With his creation skills, you'll get shots. 

3 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Is OO really the center of the future anyways?  He's a weird tweener imo, does some center stuff well, does a little PF things but not really, just awkward size/skillset combo.  Love him though.  Ingram would be really interesting if they had any appetite to move him.

But I cannot see NO making more than fringe moves -- most of these conversations would likely have to continue into the offseason.  They're playing good ball right now and their team is healthy.

Makes you wonder if they'd push all their chips in because Zion is actually healthy.  It might be one of their only opportunities to cash in on that.  I was invited to a Pels game in a suite.  It was Ja's return game and their crowd was rowdy.  They showed up and showed out.  They are a mid-market team that isn't a FA destination so just like ATL after that ECF run, you sometimes do questionable long-term things to cash in on the short-term.  Sometimes they pan out.  Sometimes they don't.  Shoot your shot NO.  Overpay for DJ and OO. 

I also question how the org views OO as the long-term plan at Center. 

17 minutes ago, hylndr11 said:

Id like valc for his offense but does he play much def? Remember , we are getting Kat this summer so we can't give away all the cookies yet bois!

He's a big-bodied Center so he's not going to be good in space but has the frame to handle the few big centers that are today's NBA.  He is averaging 1bpg so he's not a total non-factor there. 

He's putting up solid offensive numbers (14+ppg, 9+rpg, and shooting 34% from 3) in only 25mpg. 

5 minutes ago, Dean Walker said:

I’m doing anything and everything to get cooper flag in a hawks jersey!

Going to be hard unless we get our pick back from San Antonio. 

2 minutes ago, Hawkish said:

Does he play defense?

Negative

3 minutes ago, Hawkish said:

A bad year gets Bey $15M per?  I just don’t get it.  Build the core first.  

I think Bey might take the QO and try to recoup his value.  Before his 3 point shot disappeared this year, someone might've given him $20+ million per season. 

3 minutes ago, Hawkish said:

I’m not terribly familiar with them, but Jones/Murphy would would destroy any other rumored offer.  I doubt we would get both (or either).  Maybe we can sneak Alvarado in the deal. 

I love Alvarado's grit, but his size makes him strictly a Trae backup.  I think NO likes him to play him next to CJ or DJ

4 minutes ago, terrell said:

 

Just heard him talking about it on B/R live.  They've got some interesting pieces like Herb Jones, Troy Murphy and others that could be valuable.  Jones is on a reasonable extension and Murphy still has another year left on rookie deal. 

He wouldn't fit within our TPE, but what if we pivoted to Jerami Grant?  He is a poor man's Siakam isn't he?  Can create for himself off the dribble, hit open 3's, play multiple position defense.  Seems like Lillard is destined to be traded which would signal more of a rebuild or retool in Portland.  

Just throwing another idea out there since this Siakam drama is dragging out so long.  

3 minutes ago, Mikey said:

The hawks offer is on the table with other teams lined up lol. It’s up to Masai to accept. This late push to get other teams involved to up our price isnt working. 

If that is indeed the case, I appreciate Landry's backbone.  As a rookie GM, most veteran GM's would expect to have the upper hand in negotiations.  

2 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

Couple days ago but does this mean we are ready to trade? Bruno signed. 
 

 

I think it was more of a serviceable big that is well liked by teammates for basically the vet minimum.  When they traded Garuba, they still needed a 3rd center.  Fernando is a great person for that role, especially at that salary and with the option years. 

7 minutes ago, Hawkish said:

I agree — Having an identity is something we may become more familiar with now Snyder is here.  Understanding the identity may help us (backseat GM drivers) see value more clearly.  Having an identity requires others to match up with us (rather than just vice versa).  
 

How does Boston decide to defend Trae and DJ with Smart gone?  Siakam is quicker than Porzingis; quicker, longer, and more athletic than Horford; quicker than RWilliams (and Grant is gone).  We have numerous plus matchups against Boston.  Who does Middleton guard for Milwaukee?  Lopez is considered a strong defender but can he stay with OO/Siakam in space?  Just some thoughts…

Outstanding points!  I like the idea of having a team that can take advantage of matchups and utilize athleticism.  As good of a passer as Trae is, we rarely played fast for extended periods of time.    Having multiple guys who can defend multiple positions AND handle the ball????  I'm having a Fred Sanford clutching my chest moment!  lol.  

Not that he's starter material any longer, but does Danny Green have anything left in the tank?  Seems like that gritty 3andD vet that could be valuable.