Dragitoff

20 minutes ago, thecampster said:

uhm...Bill Simmons?  https://deadspin.com/bill-simmons-is-a-shitty-writer-1703163076

Yeah I was lending his writing to simply state if that's what people think the value of Parsons/#4 pick is, we need to move along.  Tobias Harris is a decent NBA player.  #12/#13 are good picks.  

Just now, AHF said:

Once they opt out, I don't think there are any cap holds to renounce.  Could be wrong.

I'm definitely not a cap expert so I could be as well.  

10 minutes ago, nathan2331 said:

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

The best deal for Memphis will be the one they do or they keep #4 pick. 

If they get really competitive offers, best believe we gonna get rid of one of Prince or Collins, trade our other picks in this class and eat ALL of Parsons abomination of a contract. 

 

Who's competing with us? Aside from the Mavs I thought we were the only team capable of eating that contract without sending anything back. The Cavs could maybe give them Love if they know LeBron is gone but those are the only teams I can think of, aside from another team deciding to rebuild.

Bill Simmons just posted a fake trade that may shed some perspective on suitors.  

Sacramento got Patrick Beverly and the #4 pick

Memphis got Tobias Harris, #12, #13 and filler

LA Clippers got Parsons and #2

If that's true value as perceived around the league, then I was wrong that our #19 and even #30 for Parsons and #4 would be enough.  

Oh Lord.  The JJJ vs. Bagley debate has started again.  Wake me up in 43 pages.  

Just now, AHF said:

There is no option to renounce Dedmon.  Dedmon and Moose are both under contract with the team (not FAs today) and we are obligated to pay them unless they choose to opt out.   I think it is a toss up whether either will do so.  With out luck, I'd guess Dedmon opts out and Moose stays.

Understood that.  Maybe I should've phrased it they'd have to opt out and us renounce their cap holds.  

2 minutes ago, capstone21 said:

That would absolutely work for me ... can we actually absorb both Faried AND Parson's contracts?  Wouldn't it be one or the other?

Using the handy-dandy capulator, it would take some serious gymnastics and almost certainly dealing Schröder for a pick or a player making less than him.  That's renouncing Dedmon and all other FA's and Muscala not picking up his option (we could sign later for part of MLE if we wanted him back).  Another alternative would be waiving and stretching Plumlee or Parsons.  

11 minutes ago, capstone21 said:

Absolutely but my point is they are not taking back bad contracts to make this trade ... to get 4 you have to take Parsons ... it might also mean giving up something of value to get 4 (19 + something else).  Maybe not but they won't be taking on Dennis / Baz.  

Hey Cap, some scouts have stated they felt all non-lottery 1st rounders were essentially the same quality players.  With that said, I'd be hopeful we could get away with it only offering the #19 or (hopefully) soon to be acquired #14, but if it came down to it, seems like maybe that #30 would have some value too.  I think I'd also be down to include both #14/#19 for the #4/Parsons.  That would still give us 4 picks and 2 in the top 4.  

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I'd send them Bazemore and #19, they need wing help to replace Parsons non production. 

I'd do that too, but would that value Baze that much?  

Conley
Bazemore
Evans
Green
Gasol

That's a decent starting 5 in the West.  Bazemore is a much better shooter/step down in defense from the old days when they had Tony Allen at SG for them.  

17 minutes ago, Royjr9 said:

While I don’t care for young thought this was intresting. 

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/06/scottos-latest-parsons-hawks-t-young-nets.html

take on parsons for the 4 pick toss dennis  and 19 or 30 or the Cleveland pick next year to the griz. Maybe.

 

If there's any way Memphis deals that 4th pick, I'd be all over taking Parsons' ridiculous contract back in exchange.  Even if that meant we had to send #19 and #30 back to Memphis.  We could snag two potential cornerstone pieces and still make a solid pick at #34.  I think we'd still have some room financially to do another deal like Faried/#14 to get back into the late lottery mix and/or acquire future picks.  Parsons could provide some scoring punch for the second unit if/when he's able to play.  He's a shell of his former self, but can still shoot from deep. 

I think adding Dennis to the deal makes it less appealing since the whole purpose is to save $.  Memphis is going to want to re-sign Tyreke Evans and stay out of the luxury tax.  Depending on what Evans gets, they may have a little room to add another piece if they move Parsons without taking any significant $ back.  

I also don't necessarily think keeping Schröder prevents us from taking Young if that's the guy the Hawks want.  Having two solid PG's is a position of strength that we shouldn't have the luxury of having since we're in a deep rebuild; however, I view it as insurance and trade leverage.  You don't have to keep both, but having both pushes them since they've got someone that could technically replace them.  It worked well for Teague/Schröder and it ultimately got us Prince.  Of course, with an early lottery pick, you want more than that I suppose.  

If all this talk about CP3, LBJ and PG teaming up in LA comes to fruition, I'd love for the Hawks to keep our lotto pick for a big and make a move for Lonzo.  If not, I'm on starting to get on board with Trae Young.  I like Lonzo's game, but would hate for the Lavar headache to be around the ATL.  It might be good for selling tickets if nothing else.  lol

8 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

No disagreement there.   Hawks U never converted fringe nba players but I always thought of Hawks U as taking the Demarre's and Millsaps and hell even Horfords and making them great players.   I don't think anyone really has the magic bullet to make marginal talents into NBA players though.   

Bud's staff (I think it was Atkinson and Snyder mostly) did an amazing job of helping guys like Demarre, Dedmon, Millsap, Horford, Bazemore, Korver, etc. take their games to higher levels.  It's the development of rookies I was pointing out.  Pierce, by all accounts, was instrumental at doing that in Philly.  I do; however, know it's apples and oranges as Hawks were outside lottery picks and Philly was top 10 picks so the talent pool should've been a little deeper to start.  I just got so frustrated with people acting like the Hawks will never develop talent now that Bud is gone.  

Just now, macdaddy said:

Collins averaged over 20 minutes a game in October and November so not getting that he barely got PT.  Especially since he was racking up tons of fouls.Prince?  You're supposed to fight to get PT.  That's the point. 

Practice, watching, learning all play a part.  Prince finished his rookie year averaging 25 minutes a game and had become the starter.   I hardly think giving a rookie 3 months of spot duty before giving them heavy rotation = being glued to the bench.  

Bembry played lockdown defense in one game but has been a below average nba player by all measures.  It's hard to stay on the floor when you can't shoot.

Maybe I just disagree with your terminology.   Reluctance to play rookies?  These guys all got minutes as rookies and Prince and Collins were heavy rotation guys.   

 

Prince wasn't a heavy rotational piece until later in the year.  I definitely agree that players should earn their PT; however my point is that people keep saying Bud U developed all this great talent.  Where are they?  They did a phenomenal job resurrecting careers and helping players who were fringe players turn into quality rotational players, but I disagree they developed all this great NBA talent from the ground up.  

Schröder is still essentially who he was when Bud took over.  He's a low efficiency PG who doesn't make his teammates better. 

Bembry still has a broken shot and turns the ball over too much. 

Tavares is playing overseas. 

Prince is showing flashes of being a really solid player, but is still inconsistent.  Could be more a factor of his inexperience than blamed on coaching staff

Same for Collins as Prince.  

Payne is a fringe NBA player

Mike Scott did more than most thought he would as an NBA player but if his jumper wasn't falling, he was a liability.  He's still a fringe NBA rotational piece and his off-court issues further diminish his long-term ability to be anything more than a distraction

John Jenkins is fighting for a G League spot

The list goes on and on.  Most of our picks right before Bud or during his time in ATL are guys that either fringe players.  I'll give you that we were a playoff team during that timeframe so most of our picks were outside the lottery.  I'm just saying where are all these rookies that Bud U developed?  

6 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

Who were these promising kids that he kept glued to the bench?   I'm racking my brain for an example.  Moose, Jenkins, Dennis, Scott, Mack all got healthy minutes.   I'm racking my brain but just can't think of any promising youngsters that were held back.  

Collins last year barely got any PT early on, even when we were in full blown tank mode

Bembry played lockdown defense on Harden and then sits the next few games

Prince was playing well his rookie year and fought like hell to get PT early on

Those are just a few examples over the past 2 years.  There are certainly more.  I can also pull mountains of threads where Hawks fans were complaining over Bud's rotations and his reluctance to play rooks.  

We had some discussion about this in the Draft thread.  Cleveland may opt to take quantity over quality when they inevitably blow it up this offseason and might be willing to part with the Brooklyn pick in favor of a team taking back unwanted salary (Hill, Smith, Thompson, etc.) and a few 1st rounders.  Young may not be available at that point, but that's a possibility.  Orlando has been hot for a quality PG for years.  Payton wasn't cutting the mustard and they've got bad contracts and no upside in the short term.  Would they be willing to take Dennis/#19/#30 for Biyombo/their 1st?  Unlikely, especially a division rival and they could realistically draft Young or Sexton with their pick and get their franchise PG.  They'd still be saddled with Biyombo though.  

14 hours ago, thecampster said:

So the part wasn't in the warehouse and had to be cross-shipped. Will arrive tomorrow.

 

Side note: I'm in a loaner from the dealership and I'm really missing the EV. The EV has instant torque when you hit the accelerator. There is no transfer lag. This gas powered soul feels very laggy/slow compared to the EV model and I had completely forgotten the "shift" feeling when going through gears.  Here's to hoping I get my electric back soon.

Sorry to hear of your headaches.  I miss the MPG and acceleration despite being such a small 'engine' of our EV; however, I didn't miss plugging in it each day and the constant problems.  The limitations most dealerships had with both qualified technicians and in-stock parts made it such a hassle.  The nearest dealership certified to work on our Volt was 45 minutes away.  First time the Volt went down it was the motor.  Had to get it towed on a flatbed since it completely locks up when it goes down. That was an extra $300 bill on top of the thousands to repair the engine.  I'm getting nauseous thinking about that car again.  

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

I'd be more willing to buy into Bamba if we still had Hawks University.  Unfortunately, because of our owner and GM, Hawks University is now in Milwaukee.  

I said this in another thread when someone (might've been you) brought that point up, but I think Bud gets far too much credit for development of young players despite being one of the most stubborn coached about playing young players.  I definitely get that we were trying to win every season except last season he was here, but there were some vets who were struggling mightily and kids who had shown promise in limited action, yet Bud kept them glued to the bench.  If you are trying to say Hawks nation didn't bemoan some of Bud's rotations during his tenure, you're fooling yourself.  

I think Pierce in Philly developed more talent from the ground up than Bud did in ATL so I'm good with the developmental side of our coaching staff now.  

Just now, Gray Mule said:

I'm still hopeful that Hawks maneuver around and, with 2 draft picks, choose Bamba and Trae.  Lloyd Pierce is said to be a defensive coach.  We hear that Bamba is built to be a fine defensive center and is already there.  Golden State has Curry.  Wouldn't Trae fit somewhat that description?  Our coach, being from G.S. will be trying to build like his former team, we believe.  If so, won't these two fit?

 

GM, I hear ya old friend!  Those two seem like a solid "high ceiling" pair to go with if we can get another early pick.  MPJ might be the only other candidate for projected higher ceiling with as much risk.  

Thanks for this!  That's a great site and truly helpful.  Despite you providing this link, there will inevitably be people posting ridiculous scenarios.  Fight the good fight my friend!  

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

During my hiatus, eehem elsewhere.......there were 4 trades that I wanted us to make since we were rebuilding to get additional 2018 1st round picks:

1. With the Bucks before they traded for Bledsoe.

2. Denver for Faried

3. Pistons before they traded for Blake Griffin

4. Minny for their OKC 2018 pick.

All these teams that would have salary cap issues this offseason but still wanting to upgrade their team and try to stay in the playoffs or make the playoffs.

 

Gotcha.  I wasn't aware you were pushing that prior, but either way, I was stating there was someone most NBA fans respect for their reporting that confirmed Denver was looking to do just that with a willing team.  

2 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Whoever we draft I hope all actual Hawks fans will support the picks...

Dilly Dilly!

1 hour ago, Spud2nique said:

@JayBirdHawkinvented trading for 14th and Faried so..

Woj is the one who actually said Denver was possibly trying to do that during the Draft Special a few weeks ago on ESPN.  He didn't name any teams, but who will have the cap space to do that (and what teams would burn their cap space for that type of deal)?

3 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I know Dennis is still young but I really think we are at or close to his ceiling.   If he improves his 3 point shot then that will help tons but what has he really improved on in the last 3 years?  

Totally agree that you don't take Young if you think he'll just be as good as Dennis, but there is a lot there to suggest that he will be much better.  Defense is a huge concern with Young but isn't that the biggest issue with Dennis too?  5 years into the NBA.

Dennis actually played decent defense when he was backing up Teague.  I don't know if it was because it was for shorter spurts, usually playing against 2nd teamers, he wasn't being asked to do as much on the offensive end, or he just tried harder.  That's where a lot of the Rondo comparisons came in early on.  If you recall, Dennis pressured the ballhandler up the court and harassed them.  He made poor decisions from time to time doing it, but he made the effort defensively.  

I don't think he'll progress much more as a player.  He's probably best served as a 6th man and he'd be an amazing one at that.  He'd easily be the best backup PG in the league if he'd accept that role and apply himself accordingly.  

I've been all over the place on who I want the Hawks to draft.  I've started over this offseason on NBA 2K so many times, I don't even want to admit.  lol.