khaos7

Well, well. What does the guy from Toronto from the link has to say now! Kick rocks! ATL Baby!

Go to the Raptors website www.raptors.com. That is where you will find the link.

I disagree. We're a fanbase that has been tremendously underserved. I hate to sound like Beau Bock, but back in the 80's, the Hawks fans had the Omni rocking. This city has been treated to extraordinarily bad products. I won't rehash everything we've been through. However, winning (aside from the Braves) just hasn't been a part of our culture. I laugh when I hear Eagles, Phillies, Cubs, Red Sox, and Knicks fans complain about their lot. I changed my mind I will rehash some of what we've been through: Braves: 14 pennants. Must be commended. However, we've had our hearts broken in the postseason by teams that were supposed to compete. The 70's and 80's featured horrible baseball, with the exception of the Torre years. Falcons: Vick convicted. Petrino abandon us. No back to back winning seasons. Deion leaving to go to greener pastures. Bad draft picks. The Smith family. Thrashers: Swept in sole playoff appearance. Hawks: We've gone over this zillions of times. One championship in the entire city. In totality, we've been through a lot. If any city has an excuse to tell its teams "what have you done for me lately", it's the fans of this city. I will say that maybe us Braves fans were spoiled by Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Chipper, Justice, and others.

I said it in another post, if we win, people will have to pay attention and respect our city. That's why it is crucial we support our team. I hope we're loud and crazy tonight and we go home with a 4th W.

Toronto's view Check out what Toronto has to say about our grand city. I really want us to bash there heads in! We've got to play solid defense the entire game, don't fall in love with the 3, and push the tempo.

If we continue to win, we'll have to be respected. After years of hearing Chad Ford trash our team, Kenny Smith dismiss us, and even the local media ignoring us, I've learned to tune out what the media has to say, good or bad. If we win, play hard every night and respect the game (things our players haven't always done), we'll get respect. 3 games in? It's still early. However, we can see first hand how this team is meshing. We don't need ESPN, 680, 790, Sports Illustrated, or anyone else to legitimize us. The 15 guys on that roster need to do that. And if they continue to replicate their first 3 efforts, they will.

Aside from resigning Smoove, this could be the best move made in the offseason, IMHO. I've wondered why we never went after this cat, with the brick layers we've had on this team. Mark Price may help us in ways we've never seen.

Saying nothing would leave too much to interpretation (ie: the Bill Parcells/Jason Taylor issue). It better to give a rousing endorsement (for the company that pays you) than to say nothing. It's all bizness...I don't think we should read too much into it.

As the team's, company's, and organization's ambassador, I wouldn't expect him to say anything else. If he said something to the contrary, it would cause a bad media situation for the ASG. I could see the headline, "Hawks Great Questions Rehire of Coach." I'm not saying he's lying. However, it wouldn't be good business to come out and reject a hire of the company that cuts you a pay check.

The one thing that Woody does a decent job of is coaching defense. There are two occasions where I questioned his decisions on the defensive end, from last year. 1) The first game of our double header with Philly at the end of the season. Everybody and their mother knew we should have played zone defense on them; they couldn't shoot. They won the game. The next game, we made the adjustment and played zone. We won. 2) In the playoff series, we ran guys beneath screens. We got burned everytime and never made an adjustment. All that said, I've seen him set up some solid defensive gameplans, particularly on big men. Say what you want about Josh and Horford playing out of position. However, rarely have they been exploited by other guys bigs, save for guys who you'd expect them to (Yao for instance). No harm in that. We play Dwight Howard pretty well. Usually, if we look bad on defense, it's because guys missed assignments. The biggest problem we had with bigs was not enough depth on the bench to spell Horf or Josh and Zaza's lackadasical play. Alot of glowing remarks about Woody's coaching, huh? With all the good I can heap on his defensive mind, offensively, he sucks. Rarely have I seen him implement wrinkles in the offense to exploit our mismatches. His offensive game plans are so bad, they negate the good I see on defense, in my eyes. That's why I wanted a coaching change so badly. I believe the right coach (Avery Johnson?) would have stuck to some of Woody's philsophies on defense, yet created more ball movement.

Points made in the interview: -Sund never met him face to face. -He felt the 33 million offer was a good offer, but two championship teams offered him more AFTER Sund told him to find another deal. -After he found a deal, he was told to wait until Josh Smith was resolved and another FA was signed -Spirit thought he was bluffing -He felt that we as given a rigid role and wasn't given the chance to compete. He didn't want to knock Marvin, but he felt he should have been allowed to compete. Even when Marvin was out of the line up, other guys were allowed to start. -Josh Smith is frustrated. -Feels Josh will stay, but could go elsewhere. -Feels he should be considered to be more than a rebounder. -Dislikes how people could side with management for making a business decision, but when players do what's best for them, they are thrashed -really appreciated fans -implied, he doesn't know the direction of the team

Given the Spirit's illustrious ownership tenure, I believe the burden of proof lies with them. They've done nothing to this point that would suggest they operated their business in good faith, IMHO.

I'm glad someone other than myself heard the cut. It doesn't sound good on any level and I'm inclined to believe Childress over the ASG. Sund can only write checks the ASG allow him to cut. From what I heard, the ASG lowballed him and treated him miserably. Gearon is a spin doctor and this entire group of "owners" are incapable of running a sports team. I'm not questioning their business acumen outside of bball; they've made millions. However, I do call into question their ability to run a sports franchise. Everybody should tune in tomorrow so we all can develop our own perspectives on this situation. However, given what I heard, I've already made up my mind...

You've got to hear it yourself...It was only about 1-2 minutes of the interview. But, what they played was very telling.

Wow is all I can say. Woolverton and Brandon just played a cut from a interview Mayhem in the AM will play tomorrow from Josh Chilldress. On the cut they played, Childress said, and I paraphrase, the Hawks didn't offer what they claimed they offer and that he was offered more money AND a starting position from two championship teams. He said the Hawks offered him below the mid level exception . After he turned down this deal, they told him to go look for a deal. Brandon and Woolverton went on to say that the interview revealed that Chilldress felt attacked personally, from a charecter standpoint and that the interview is salicious and candid. My viewpoint? I don't know Sund, Childress, or the ASG personally. However, given the track record of the cheap Spirit group and the perception of Childress's charecter around the league and the media, I'm inclined to side with Childress's take. Keep in mind, this is the same guy the Hawks have given the Jason Collier award to for, I think, two years. He's a good kid and I believe the Spirit got cheap and nasty in negotiations.

I don't know if anyone posted this already. However, per Ken Berger in NY (from Newsday):

Quote: Quote: that's what we've been saying for weeks. 11-12 is the number. time to get it done. I agree give him 11 or 12 and get this deal done already. I could justify giving Smoove 12 million. Hear me out on this one. I know he doesn't play the 5. However, he performed a role that, traditionally, a five performs (shot blocking albeit from the weak-side). Given Bogut's new contract and Ellis's, one could argue that although he doesn't play the 5 (their contracts are always more inflated given the need for big men) and he doesn't play Ellis's position, he does things they both do. Tweener is the word we've all used to describe Josh. Therefore, give him a contract between what Bogut and Ellis received: 12 million a year. I don't know if all of that makes sense. However, I just figure that could be a way his agent could frame an argument in requesting 12 million and perhaps the Hawks could justify honoring the request.

Quote: Quote: 9.5 million is just disrespectful IMO. 9.5 is a lowball offer although i wouldn't call it disrespecful. I think it is just part of negotiations. You aren't going to make your final offer up front. Given the ASG perceived stance has been "let the market bear out", there is no reason for them not to make a new offer, like yesterday. 11 million is the number.

Quote: Quote: Yep. Actually, that's the amount many of us on here have been suggesting for weeks. It's time for this to get resolved so that the rest of the bench can be set. This simple fact that a high profile RFA has signed could put more pressure on teams to sign their own guys. Training camp is just a couple of months away. It should. The only problem I can see is Smoove sticking to the "Sixers would have offered be 12 mil and the Clips would have offered me 13 mil had it not been for Camby and Brand." The fact the other teams went elsewhere should negate that argument. I think the Spirit has to offer 11 million now, due to Ellis. That said, from a perception standpoint, they could possibly offer Smith to resolve this issue, in light of the Childress situation. Bottom line they should get it done. 11 million seems fair to me.

Monta Ellis's newly signed contract will pay him $11 million a year. He averaged 20.2 pts and 3.9 assist a game last year. In addition, he averaged 5.0 rebounds 1.53 steals, and 2.14 turnovers. By comparison. Josh Smith averaged 17.2 points per game, 8.2 rebounds, 2.8 blocks, 3.02 turnovers, 3.4 assist and 1.52 steals. I acknowledge that they play two different positions. However, given their production (I think it's a wash...they are comparable) hasn't the market been set with Ellis's contract? It's not exact math, but lets consider a few things. Monta averages 3 points more than Smoove. However, Smoove averages 3 more rebounds than Ellis. Smith has 3.02 turnovers compared to Ellis's 2.14. However, Smith makes up for some of that with his block numbers. They are both virutually equal in the steals department. Again, because they play two different positions, I acknowledge it isn't possible to do a direct comparison. However, judging from Ellis's contract, the Spirit have to offer more than the 9.5 they offered Smoove (per reports) otherwise they are just being cheap. Smoove shouldn't have the leverage to demand more than the 11million Ellis just received. Otherwise, he's being greedy. What do you think?

Quote: Quote: Disagree with me? Cool. But don't put words in my mouth. Sorry. My impression was that you were freaking out b/c the head of the marketing dept did not get his contract renewed. Guess I misunderstood your point. We definately want the same thing in the Hawks to improve as a basketball team. My man! If we ever cross paths, we should have a drink together and laugh (or cry) about our Atlanta Hawks. Everybody on this site should for that matter...we're all in this thing together.

Quote: Khaos, how old are you ? Your freaking out b/c they terminated a marketing Slow down bro! First of all, I posted the article to show that 1) that this ownership group's mess has spread beyond the sports arena, 2) to provide more information in terms of how they are perceived (read the comments from the guy the Thrashers pursued and 3) in the wake of the Childress deal, the article was relevant. In terms of me saying there are apologists, that's one man's opinion (just as it's other's opinion that would disagree with mine and say the board doesn't have ASG apologists). I never pointed fingers or called out names. However, we're all entitled to our opinions. That's until you call out my name... coachx you put works in my mouth and claimed that I was going on about a media guy got fired. No where in any of my post (look for yourself) did I make any beef about this guy losing his job. Yes, I know have lost jobs in the ATL area. Hell, I have family members that lost their jobs. Before you take the pulpit and sermonize to me about the "real world" read what I wrote, in the context of the article, recent developments, and actual things you can QUOTE that I said. In addition, I know that in the "real world" people get laid off. However, in the "sports world" very few organizations are ran as poorly as the ASG. That's my argument. And as a paying fan, I'm entitled to it. To sarcastically ask "how old are you" and welcome me to the "real world"...isn't cool and I don't get down like that. Criticize me by what I say, but don't question me on what you think I said. Nuff said. My purpose for posting this was to support a claim that I made...that the Spirit group is a cheap imbecilic group that doesn't deserve support. That's not to say they don't share blame with others. Woody deserves blame. The players deserve blame. BK deserves blame. To a lesser degree Sund does. However, the problem clearly starts at the top. If the Spirit provided a culture that didn't breed litigation, snide comments from players and league insiders, unhappy players, and an unfulfilled fanbase, I wouldn't have to make my assertion (that they have apologists). Again, I stand by what I say, without directly attacking anybody. In the long run...we both want the same thing, the Hawks to win. However, I'm of the opinion that in order to get this ownership group to straighten up or sell, we need to call them to task, stop paying our hard earned dollars, and call them out when they are slipping. Disagree with me? Cool. But don't put words in my mouth.

Quote: I didn't know there were ASG apologists... You'd be surprised...

Quote: What a sad situation to be in for all the employees of the ASG. You never know when you will be let go or not retained. This is far more than just Josh Childress who is out front. Maybe this will prove that ASG are not handling there employees behind the scenes as well as those out front. That my friend is an excellent point. They are a cheap, 2bit organization. I want no part of Levenson, Belkin, Gearon, Seydel, or any of these clowns.

The culture of the ASG has led to what we've been seeing up to the Chilldress situation. They are cheap and everyone knows it. It's time for the denial to end...