Crank

I would love Ronnie Brewer with CP3. In fact Brewer would do well with CP3 like he did with Deron. As would Marvin if back to 09 health form when he lead the Hawks in MPG as well as Horford to an extreme level.

BUT! I don't like Brewer with Chicago personnel and I REALLY don't like him with ours. Too limited on offense to a degree he would be Mario West. His movement is extremely good as a guard on offense but Atlanta is an outside dominate team with no idea of ball movement as a whole which hurts guys like Brewer.

If we had CP3, Brewer value>>>Jamal's. Easy deal. As for now with our personnel, he would just be a clog in the salary cap, pass.

We need to look to adding cheap talent which might be misused with our current personnel like Jamal and Bibby was but cheap.

Brewer didnt do great with Deron he sucked which is why they got rid of him and tried to bring in someone who could at least make a shot even old Raja Bell.

Brewer then moved onto the Bulls and played with another great one ....the MVP Rose and was still useless besides a few minutes defensively

We would bring him here and it wouldnt take 30 games before people would be wondering why we got him if the craziness of JJ for Paul actually happened .

Brewer is a double team magnet ....whoever he is playing with gets doubled by whoever is guarding him .

With NOH being in a very vulnerable spot a lot like DEN was last season, whereas Paul is hinting for a trade to a very specific team or couple of teams, we could offer them a very intriguing offer. Paul was rumored to have said that his heart is in NO and if he's traded he wants to make sure the Hornets can have something to move forward with. Not like Melo who cared less and just wanted to get to NY.

Lets see New York has nothing, Orlando has better but nothing overwhelmingly good, and Clippers have nothing great either. So, enter the Hawks! Hawks have a lot of interesting pieces and contracts for trading. This is my idea to get CP3 here to ATL and also give NOH something to build with.

ATL sends Joe, Teague, and Kirk (expiring)

- ATL add mega PG CP3 and great DEF SG/SF to lead with Al and Josh with toughness and real experience. Hawks either add a bench SG like Shannon Brown or J-Rich this summer or a different FA SG next summer. Or with Paul here, we could offer Horford + Ariza + 1st for Dwight.

NOH sends CP3, Ariza, and $3Mil CASH

NOH gets an AllStar SG, a young blazing PG with high potential, and Kirk's $8Mil expiring deal to move forward with. This deal way better than the Knicks, Magic, or Clippers can/will offer the Hornets.

thats a homer deal if Ive ever seen one lol . Hey I would take it but why would the Hornets owners .... (the rest of the league because the nba owns the hornets ) take joe johnson off our hands when he is not known for filling the stands..... they already have Okafor .

The only way I see us working out a deal is if they could give us Okafor and Paul for Al + salaries but hes full BYC so I dont think

Wouldnt Al have BYC status after signing his extension ? as such I dont think there was anyway to get that deal done as a 1 for 1 trade .

If JC was worth that then Stuckey is worth that since he's comparable offensively and better defensively. $11 million is too much for either but I would have rather had Stuckey at that price than JC.

They arent comparable offensively Stuckey cant shoot .

Look here dude, for a guy who used to be assistant coach to Woody, you would have thought that he knew the flaws this Hawks team had from getting to the NBA Finals, but I guess he didn't. He talked about moving the ball more and getting more open looks, we got those open looks but we didn't hit them. We ranked 26th in the league at points per game with 95 a game. If it wasn't for Hinrich pulling his hamstring, we wouldn't have know the guy sitting on the bench every night, Jeff Teague was the best point guard on this team. Now you look into the offseason where jamal is demanding a long term contract, when JC2, who plays just as good as jamal maybe even better was there for cheap and could give this hawks team a scoring punch. And that was in Washington, there were no veteran shooting guards there such as JJ, trying to mentor him into being a great shooting guard in this league. Maybe helping him develop into a even better player. And for your last comment, I said someday when he acctually gets a veteran shooting guard to help him develop into an even more offensive player.

Did you think when he was scoring almost 28 a night for the wizards it didn't matter?

thats the problem right there you have to be high as a kite to believe that .

Jamal just didnt give us scoring punch jamal could give us games until JC2 can do that he is not the caliber of player that JC is .

If it wasnt for Hinrich Drew is lameduck Sund is gone and the new GM is trying to make his splash by packaging Teague ,JC2 and one of our big three trying to get under the cap .

The Hawks have not been in the lottery for years but the lottery mentality still is strong.

I'd love to pick up Vince for cheap on this team because he can still contribute more than our current bench guys like Pape Sy and Damien Wilkins. Two points from this thread do bear repeating in a caveat emptor kind of way:

(1) The Magic thought less of him than the thoroughly mediocre and overpaid Hedu Turkoglu.

(2) The Suns were better once they benched Vince Carter in favor of Jared Dudley. Here is a detailed take from the Arizona press on why Vince should be benched for Dudley (before they actually did the benching):

http://www.examiner.com/nba-in-national/should-the-suns-consider-starting-jared-dudley-over-vince-carter

After going through the increased passiveness of Vince's offensive game (3pt up, fts down, shooting efficiency down, etc.) and his non-existent defensive impact, the punchline for the article is about Vince not delivering an impact on the floor:

Given Vince's lack of heart historically, this is definitely a "buyer beware" position. Having Vince to supplement your team is a great idea. Having to count on him is not a position I would want to be in.

Orlando's GM talked about Carter as "fool's gold" before taking a dive and trading for him:

It is clear Otis Smith lived to regret acquiring Carter. We'll see if his next team joins Phoenix, Orlando and Toronto as teams who depart from Vince questioning his commitment.

AHF but there is nothing wrong with VC according to Northcyde he is simply transitioning :biggrin:

Why would anyone want someones VC's age to replace Marvin with a similar contract to marvin's ? If you told me we could get him for a contract similar to the 2-3 million per year that Grant Hill was getting from the Suns then I would be very open to that but I dont see that happening at all.

Name of external link

The Atlanta Hawks have started to gauge trade interest on forward Josh Smith(notes), and Smith isn’t averse to ending his seven-year stay with his hometown team, league sources told Yahoo! Sports on Monday.

Smith hasn’t requested a trade, but has privately told league friends that the Boston Celtics, New Jersey Nets, Houston Rockets and Orlando Magic are his preferred destinations should the Hawks decide to move him.

“The relationship has run its course,” said a league source with knowledge of the dynamic.

I don't get it either. Vince makes up for what he has lost in his superstar ability with a still solid game and some heart. I would welcome him to this team as a spark off the bench. Folks not seeing this is beyond me.

If he's affordable, how does Hinrich, Carter, Marvin, Powell and Pachulia coming off the bench sound? Not bad to me.

of course you wouldnt but I could simply post games 1-5 of the Magic series for Jamal maybe Northcyde should watch the hawks more instead of making such ridiculous claims.

VC at the minimum is value..... VC at the full Mle for 3-5 years is not what about that you dont see ?

Players like him dont join teams whose best players in there primes are not even considered better than him or at least as good as he was in his not for the minimum at least

Shaq didnt do it I see no reason why VC would do it .

You know yourself he wouldnt pick us over the Bulls unless we offered him a full blown MLE deal . Who in there right mind gives a 35 year old VC 3-5 years ?

About 3-4 years too late for a guy like Kapono on this squad .

Role players only work when the stars consistently play at a high level and the organization and the players are all pulling in the same direction .

Yep lets learn the lesson the hard way when other playoff teams pick up pieces needed to win a championship and we remain the same ol Hawks. I assure you VC can put the ball in the basket better than any Hawks including the 120 million dollar man we have. VC is a prime time scorer and the Magc knows they made a mistake trading him.

We DO NOT hve a player on this roster that can take over the game in the closing two minutes.............VC has and still can.

roflmao did you just step out of a portal to from 2003 ?

he will sign with a contender for the minimum or partial MLE contract but he would get the full MLE from us and be the on the worst contracts list by next summer .

They would sign him with little expectations for pennies on the dollar and anything he adds would be a bonus in additions to what there consistent superstars already brings .

We would sign for multiple years and as evident by your post still think hes the VC of 8-9 years ago not the 35 yr old guards who has lost much of athleticism and still expect 2003 results .

You cant assure me of anything because Ive seen it with my own eyes and VC is nowhere near the player Joe Johnson is right now .

This is typical hawkfan desperation move

Lets go and find the oldest player we can watch his you tube clips and convince ourselves hes still the same player he was at 10 years ago.

The fact that you would want to entertain the nonsense of bring him in because hes a better closer than the

18 mil Joe

12 mil josh

12 mil AL

is exactly what is wrong with this franchise to begin with .

If you think VC is your answer then obviously dont understand the problem .;

This thread proves that some of you simply don't watch the league.

Vince had a better year as an "old man" at 34, than both Jamal Crawford and Marvin Williams. He's still good enough to be a starting 3 in this league, and definitely good enough to be a quality 6th man. Like people say, he'll probably go to Chicago, and become Derrick Rose's "Ron Harper", making that team even more potent ( especially if Thibs can get him to play better defense ). The only thing in decline about Vince, is his athleticism. Lucky for Vince, athleticism wasn't the only part of his game. He's a borderline Hall of Fame player that still has the ability to play at a high level at times.

Forget what he always did to us . . . look at what he did a mere 3 months ago vs a team that made it to the Western Conference Finals

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mnl3SqeQZWA

Then he did this the next game

Tell Marvin to do that on consecutive games. Hell . . tell Jamal or JJ to do this on consecutive games.

Please start watching the league folks.

Oh I watch the league thats how I can smell what you are putting of so strongly

You are the only person on this planet who thought VC played well posting a youtube clip of his 2 best games in a Sun uniform doesnt mean he played well. Its a reason they are looking to buy him out .

Its reason that after having him one season the magic decided move him again and thought Gilbert Arenas and Hedo were better longterm options and now after a half of a season the Suns have decided they would rather buy him out ?

Are you his agent or something because you are straight selling sucker bets .

Claiming how he played better than 2 bench guys in a starting role next two one of the best shot creators in the entire league in one of the best offensive systems in the entire league only helps you fool the espn watchers . Anyone who has actually seen VC play the last year knows your entire argument is ridiculous .

VC is done but lets sign him to the full MLE to learn that lesson the hard way . Thanks but no thanks Id rather he let him go be a bargain for the Lakers or spurs at the veteran exception than give him the full MLE for him to joint he most worst contracts list with us .

LOL . . you think?

Yeah, we'd still have a dead man walking on the team in Bibby. But by the start of next season, hopefully Drew would've sent Bibby to the bench and play the role of backup PG/designated 3 point shooter, and finally give Teague a shot at starting.

Most important though, this would be our lineup going into the summer

PG - Teague

G - Johnson

F - Marvin

PF - Smith

C - Horford

C - Zaza

G - Jordan

G - Bibby

PF - Kenneth Faried ( 1st round pick ) . . rebounding machine who can block shots . . an upgrade over Josh Powell

So we'd have a potential scorer off the bench in Jordan, who could help replace what Jamal gave us, and a chance to draft a PF like Faried who can hit the boards from the 4 spot, despite being undersized.

Now you're looking at filling 4 spots at veteran minimum salary or 50% below MLE prices, to complete the roster.

- add a Nazr Mohammed? . . I'd go for that . . might have to give him more than the vet minimum though.

- bring Damien Wilkins back? . . . against it, but we could do worse

- add a 3rd PG in Earl Watson? . . . he can at least play a little defense

- bring back Jason Collins? . . . if just to play against Dwight, I'm not against that either.

Bench

6th - Jordan

7th - Zaza

8th - Nazr

9th - Bibby/Watson ( whomever is better )

10th - Faried

Collins, Wilkins, Bibby/Watson

Minutes breakdown

PG - Teague ( 34 ) - Bibby/Watson ( 14 )

G - Johnson ( 26 ) - Jordan ( 22 )

F - Marvin ( 26 ) - Johnson ( 10 ) - Smith ( 12 )

PF - Smith ( 24 ) - Horford ( 18 ) - Faried ( 6 )

C - Horford ( 18 ) - Zaza ( 15 ) - Nazr ( 15 )

It's not a championship squad, but hey, it's not like we're looking any better than this going into the summer. And it's the reality of our situation going into the offseason, barring a major trade. We just don't have the free agent money to do anything significant.

If a young guy like Jordan isn't quite ready, just put Wilkins in the lineup and halve Jordan's minutes. Or increase Joe's minutes at the 2, which would cause an increase of Marvin's minutes at the 3.

Either way, at least you'd have 3 young guys in the lineup that could possibly help you in the long run, along with the "core" of the team.

how about this for a reality check

If we dont make the Hinrich trade we dont get out of the first rd so Drew is fired and so is Sund the team is blown up because the new management comes in looking to make changes.

Is this some type of Joke ? VC is done why dont we bring Marbury ,Ai,and Steve Francis in as well .

How about we should have kept Jordan and or the 18th pick and that would have more than covered for Jamal leaving and would have been cheaper

Id say you continue to ignore that fact that unlike you and your wishful thinking there are guys with there jobs on the line and they choose not to entertain such foolishness

If by nothing you mean almost $11 million in cap space, then yes, the Hawks will get nothing in return.

we arent getting capspace cmon keep up here

But Jamal is paid a salary and if he leaves, that's money is not being spent on him anymore. If Al's contract kicks in and fills up the cap space, then what's the debate over losing Jamal for nothing for anyway? It doesn't make sense. It's being filled by the raise in Al's salary. If we had to still pay Jamal for another year, we probably wouldn't have been able to sign Al so there is the value in Jamal leaving if he does. It still doesn't make sense for people saying we will lose him for NOTHING is my point. That portion of the team payroll that was Jamal's is going to be filled by someone and according to you, which I assume you're right, Al's contract eats up.

he would be considered leaving for nothing because he has talent and production behind that talent that would be losing him for nothing ?

We can have them both what part of this dont you seem to understand ?

Al is not replacing jamal we are losing a rotation player for nothing

Als contract has nothing to do with Jamal we could still resign jamal but if jamals leaves we get nothing because we have no capspace so jamals departure doesnt open up anything as far as signing players we just lose an asset for nothing .

I cant imagine anyone would think Dwight would seriously want out of Orlando to come here at this point . We are capped out and are seriously in a what do we do now mode ?

I would think that at his age he would say Chicago and they could send back Noah,Gibson, and some picks.

I think you have to consider the money that they could save and spend elsewhere if Jamal isn't resigned and the possibility they could use that money to get someone equal or better who is willing to sign here. The big question is who is willing to sign here. I'm always a little confused when people say are we going to lose someone for nothing unless it's a given that you know the money saved can't be used for someone else with any talent.

Eddie what money are you talking about ? Losing Crawford doesnt free up money because Als new deal at 12 million a season kicks in .

All we would have is the 6 million from the mid level exception to use and we have that whether we keep Crawford or not .

I repeat jamal and his 10 mil contract leaving doesnt open up an extra 10 million in which we could sign other players with because we are already capped out either way.

Although Diesel is right about how the new CBA may open or close doors in regards to how it plays out

Jamal is a great scorer but i'm guessing we weren't offered a ton for him at the deadline. We wouldn't have gotten out of the first round without him so I don't think we got nothing. Look at it this way, we get rid of his salary and take none back.

I think the money it will take to re sign him would be better spent on a small forward who can score rather than another guard.

We are over the cap regardless of whether Crawford comes back or not . Losing him does not open up money all we have if we bring him back or dont is the MLE .

With that said hes already gone as I stated before barring a lockout he will be getting calls from most of the top teams and there stars in the league .

We dont have a player on this roster that could net us a 1st or 2nd team all nba player by themselves

To get Dwight we would have to give up Horford and Smoove .

If all of our hopes are on Teague we are screwed in fact banking on another year of internal improvement from this team is gonna be a absolute disaster

Chris Kaman hasn't been good in three seasons. He's average right now. He would give us slightly more than Zaza. No to non impact players for impact players when we could use more talent.

Kamans been injured but to say he would be only slightly better than Zaza is ridiclous

He was 12 and 7 with a 1 block in 26 mpg last year

The year before he was 18 and 9

Hes been injured just like Chandler was injured before the Mavs got him as well as haywood had been injured early on as well.

Kaman/Al would be a great tandem if we could find ourselves a quality SF

Mavs payroll is 90 million

ATl payroll is 71 million

19 million is enough to fill out the roster with 2-3 more quality rotation players.

I said two years ago when we resigned Bibby,Marvin,Zaza, even Mo that we blew it because we didnt maximize our assets.

Instead of signing Zaza to a 4 yr 16 million dollar deal you sign him to a 3 year 20 million dollar deal

Instead of signing Bibby to a 3 year deal at 18 mil you give him a 2 yr deal at 22 mil

same with Marvin and Mo shorter deals with higher salaries

You do this because you understand that down the line no good players will have base nba salaries and so unless you plan on trading Joe,Al,or Josh you wont have any other pieces able to be moved .

The Mavs will overpay in yearly salary so that they will always have the salaries to move for someone a team is looking to dump who maybe could help them .

Marvin in the final year of a 3 deal makes him a valuable trade chip even at 10 mil . Marvin + future pick for Kaman ? We wouldve been able to get involved in the Melo talks .These are the types of situations that Cubans tries to put himself in even if he doesnt always get what he wants hes so in tune to whats going on that he is able to move quickly when opportunities present themselves .

We build our team as though the Bibby signings were the lats move we would ever make and we are paying the price now .

I never said anti of that was true. I was just mentioning the fact that peopled here actually think ours are better. I wasn't taking a shot at Dirk. I was just saying that his supporting cast is strong enough to carry them when he has a terrible night.

We do but not by a lot but they also have MORE . Thats the difference .

However thats from years of tinkering with a standard thats been set .

Its easier to accumulate that many quality role players when you have a clearcut superstar . With our best players play though its actually kinda hard to define what a role player is on this team.

The fact that people think we have better role players than DAL is baffling. Dirk is 4-19 and they are winning this game convincingly. We would have no chance if Joe was playing as bad as Dirk is tonight.

actually its the playoffs and the need for your role players comes and goes .

Dirk has set a standard with his play that he rarely shoots 4-19 so that on the occasion that he does the team can carry him .

But our best players go through weeks without bringing there 'A" game and so no real standard is set . Our role instead of being needed to carry the team, maybe 2 out of 6 games are needed basically every single game.

before you talk about role players just ask yourself when wast he last time our best 3 players all brought best games at the same time let alone back to back games.

Dirk has been one of the best players in the league for 10 straight years thats a heckuva standard to build around .