Crank

We need to find a way to get Monta Ellis, I've watched him numerous times when GS has the night game and everytime I come away impressed. He is a top 25 player in the league and he can play defense with his wingspan and his speed. He also led the league in steals if I remember correctly a few yrs back. His offensive game is efficient and the only reason his defense is in question is bc of the system GS plays. JJ is getting older and he plays more like a 3 man anyways. If we could package a deal of Marv, Crawford, Zaza, and draft picks for Ellis and other role players we could have a dangerous athletic team.

Teague/Hinrich

Ellis

JJ

Smoove

Horford

There aren't many centers better than Horford, IMO he's only behind Bogut and Howard so we need a defensive center. If we could get Ellis we would still have space to sign players like DeAndre Jordan and Shannon Brown.

FA Possibilities: Shannon Brown, DeAndre Jordan, Anthony Parker, Tyson Chandler, Josh McRoberts, Daequan Cook, Dalembert, Kapono just to name a few.

We dont have a jamal Crawford to trade and with a lockout coming I wouldnt expect any trades we will more than likely be returning the same team .

Unless we got something planned for draft day its not looking good for any major moves this summer .

Stevenson works because hes on the floor with a superstar . Put him on this squad and you will get the version that the wizards dumped .

Role players like Stevenson only work when your stars are consistent

When Joe played with Amare and Nash, he was a 46% shooter from 3...

To look at our flawed team... with guys with little BBIQ and no post presence and no PG and say that we have put JJ in his best light is ridiculous.

Do you see how JJ annihilated Chicago in game 1 in Chicago when they didn't double him? After that, they doubled him the rest of the series and his average was:

19.7 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 3.2 apg.

Just to put it in perspective...

Dwayne Wade who has Lebron and Bosh.. played against tht same Chicago defense in the ECF and his average:

18.8, 6.7, 2,2.

Point is, Joe did it without much help. His help was Teague.

you are doing it again WADE DOES NOT NEED BOSH OR LEBRON TO BRING HIS "A" GAME

What u are talking about is not perspective but a a delusion .

If we had this type of player around Joe he would suddenly turn into some sort of first team all NBA caliber future HOF ?

You guys sound like the ones who refer to the heat as the big three when in reality its the big two and a nice piece and Bosh is the nice piece but hes no where near being the caliber of player who you can simply needs some help.

Unless we can get Lebron,Wade,Dwight,Rose,Melo,Amare.

Joe is not the guy who gets help he is the type of player who IS THE HELP for those caliber of players .

Joe is not a bad player and I like his game but at this time we are simply treading water buying into that .

Now as i said before I wouldnt dump him for nothing because I like his game but you have to recognize your teams limitations and plan accordingly .

The 34 year old Sam Cassell shot 49% FG - 40% 3FG and averaged 20 points and 7 assists the year Minnesota went to the WCF. He had one of his best years of his career that year. Cassell, even more than KG, was the leader of that squad that kept them steady and had the ability to make big shot after big shot. Since people love using PER and win score/48, Cassell's PER that year was a whopping 22.8 ( ridiculous for a PG, seeing that PER usually favors the high scoring, high rebounding PF types ) and had a win score per 48 minute number of .205. Both numbers trump the best seasons of Horford, Smith, AND Joe Johnson. Cassell scored 20 points or more in 41 of the 81 games he played in that year. That made him a legit #2 option that had the ability to even be a #1 option at times. Neither Horford nor Smith have ever been able to score like that. He played so well, that he earned 2nd team All-NBA.

Spreewell was a former #1 then a #2 option type scorer who could get his own shot. On that Minnesota team, he was the ideal #3 option with his ability to score the basketball from the SF position. He was essentially their Jamal Crawford, a guy who was streaky, but could explode and have a big game every now and then. 34 games of 20 points or more and 6 games of 30 points or more for Spree that year.

Both Hassell and Ervin Johnson were defensive guys who could limit what their man did at their respective position. Johnson was essentially a better version of Jason Collins, while Hassell always drew the assignment against the best perimeter scoring wing. Those two moves kept KG from playing center all the time, and kept Spree from having to guard the top offensive scorer at times, enabling both guys to have the energy to still play defense, but really concentrate on offense.

Their starting 5 trumps any starting 5 that JJ has had in Atlanta. They were the perfect balance of elite offensive scoring and defensive prowess. You couldn't double KG in the post, because Cassell would kill you with the 3 ball and Spree was still a decent slasher to the hole.

And that's not even including the high percentage 3 point shooters they could bring off the bench in the form of Fred Hoiberg, Wally Szczerbiak, and Troy Hudson, who all shot above 40% from 3 that year.

Olowokandi was sorry for a former #1 pick, but serviceable as a stop gap center. Gary Trent ( the Shaq of the MAC ) was at least seviceable as a backup PF that played limited minutes ( posted a PER of 12.9 that season, which was better than Josh Powell, Shelden Williams, Joe Smith, or any other reserve PF we've had here ). Even Mark Madsen's goofy self brought something to the table as an energy guy that could play PF and a little C. LOL @ him and that "forearm in the back" defense that he used to play all the time.

2003 - 04 Timberwolves

- KG ( the superstar and MVP of the league )

- Cassell ( the all-star PG who had a career year )

- Spreewell ( the slasher/shooter who was a legit #3, sometimes #2 option )

- Hassell and Johnson ( the defensive specialists in the starting lineup )

- Hoiberg, Wally, and Hudson ( the 3 point specialists off the bench )

- Olowokandi and Madsen ( the "dirty work" bigs that helped keep KG fresh)

- Trent ( the reserve PF was capable of having a "nice" game 1/3rd of the time )

That team was beautifully constructed with the addition of Cassell, Spreewell, Hassell, Johnson, Hoiberg and Madsen to that team in that year.

Chemistry, ability and balance > ability, low IQ, and no balance

You and Diesel are really stretching it here

KG was the MVP that season THE LEAGUE MVP you think he was the league MVP because of the additions of Cassell and Spree ? 24 ppg 15 rpg 5 apg 1+ spg 2+ bpg and first team all defense

Thats the underlying problem here you guys are talking as if with the right players around him JJ will turn in a MVP like performance and raise his game like hes a freaking Cinderfella or something

KG was bringing his "A" game long before Cassell or Spree showed up he didnt need them around to bring out his best ball. .

Joe doesnt bring his "A" game as much as he should nevermind that his "A' game aint on KG's level . Now no one else on the team does either but when you give 3 players 40+ mil and over half of your teams cap space and none of them can consistently bring there "A" games well then you have to change something .

So put yourself in one of the ASG owners shoes. Would you vote to trade or keep hometown J- Smoove?

I know this is a common topic especially with the smith for bynum rumors but I just wanted to provide a poll to see actually how many hawk fans are willing to get rid of Josh.

Let me be real and share with you guys. Im actually scared to get rid of Josh though I admit he is a bonehead alot of times but I fear us trading him and Josh going somewhere and he suddenly becomes that all-star we see on some nights but on a consistent basis.

In regards to the rumor: I mean getting bynum would be great but bynums health scares the hell out of me and unlike LA the Hawks need all their players all season long and not just the playoffs. but then imagine smith on LA what if Kobe, Brown and the rest of the LA veterans make Smith that all star he should be here. Most of us would be mad as hell!

............unless we are able to get a CP3 for Josh i say we keep him and getting a CP3 doesnt look possible. I mean I will also go off and say I rather see Smith coached by a complete new voice thats a proven coach like Rick Adelman before we trade him away! To me he just has too much all star potential and value. we need to find a way of getting it out of him!

"all star" potential means little to this team right now concerning Josh Id much rather be concerned about building a title contender than simply worrying about Josh making a all star team.

Garnett is also a 7'0 freak of nature. BUT... when he went to the Celts... he was in decline. His stats looked good but what were the results?

32-50 and 4th in the northwest.

That's not that great.

Was Kobe in decline when the year before that when they won only 34 games ?

He was never considered in decline everyone just knew his team was screwed capwise and they would never be able to put a team around him .

The Twolves knew he had a player option just like the Nuggets knew Melo had one and they made a move rather than lose him for nothing

Al Jefferson 1st rd pick

Gerald Green, 1st rd pick

Sebastian Telfair lottery pick

Ryan Gomes rotation player

a future first-round draft pick and the return of a first-rounder

huge expiring

all that for a guy who was considered on the decline ? KG was a superstar and was traded to Boston as such

It all seems unrealistic for the hawks to get jamal back but of course most want him here. An to think how much better the hawks bench would be with him here and kirk moving to the bench along with williams! We may have the best bench in the NBA next season if we can retain Jamal. But again with all the CBA and the ASG money problems and whatever else going on in the NBA it dont look like its even possible!

With that said look at our bench with kirk and williams moving to the bench:

pg-kirk (as long as teague really steps it up)

sg-jamal (if we retain him)

sf-williams

pf-powell (if we keep him)

c-pachulia

man that looks like a great bench to me and to add no stats mvp collins and damien wilkins makes it even better. All these players can contribute in their own way!

MY Q's TO YOU

So what do you think hawksquawk! answer and explain the following q's...................

Can we argue that we have the best or a top rated bench if we keep jamal?

or do you feel kirk should be our 6th man and just let jamal walk next year?

lipstick on a pig the Hawks way .

We try and find anyone and everyone to carry the team while clinging to the core like Heston to his gun .

This team will struggle to make the playoffs next year

No. By the time he was traded, he was no longer considered a superstar. He was seen as a statpadder who was on the down side of his career. He had never met the promise that his stats and allstar appearances suggested. That's why they traded him.

So KG at 29 was a stat padder on the downside of his career ? he was a no longer a superstar

KG had a player option and thoughts were he was gonna take it thats why the Twolves traded Garnett its no surprise that he got his current 100 million dollar deal after the trade .

You are simply rewriting history to try and fit it into your theory

1998-99 NBA All-NBA (3rd)

1999-00 NBA All-Defensive (1st)

1999-00 NBA All-NBA (1st)

2000-01 NBA All-Defensive (1st)

2000-01 NBA All-NBA (2nd)

2001-02 NBA All-Defensive (1st)

2001-02 NBA All-NBA (2nd)

2002-03 NBA All-Defensive (1st)

2002-03 NBA All-NBA (1st)

2003-04 NBA All-Defensive (1st)

2003-04 NBA All-NBA (1st)

2004-05 NBA All-Defensive (1st)

2004-05 NBA All-NBA (2nd)

2005-06 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)

2006-07 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)

2006-07 NBA All-NBA (3rd)

2007-08 NBA All-Defensive (1st) first year with the Celtics

2007-08 NBA All-NBA (1st)

2008-09 NBA All-Defensive (1st)

2010-11 NBA All-Defensive (1st)

seriously Diesel

30 Mark Blount

31 Ricky Davis

4 Randy Foye

21 Kevin Garnett

41 Eddie Griffin

23 Trenton Hassell

16 Troy Hudson

13 Mike James

55 Marko Jaric

35 Mark Madsen

1 Rashad McCants

9 Justin Reed

5 Craig Smith

6 Bracey Wright

thats his final Twolves roster before being traded to the celtics roflmao just cut it out man

I think people keep forgetting that KG came to Boston as a SUPERSTAR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not a "all star" but a player many considered to be one of the 5 best platers in the game a legit quadruple double threat .

Rondo AND pierce AND Doc Rivers

Paul Pierce,

Al Jefferson,

Wally Szczerbiak,

Delonte West,

Ryan Gomes,

Tony Allen,

Gerald Green,

Rajon Rondo,

Allan Ray,

Sebastian Telfair

Kevinn Pinkney,

Kendrick Perkins,

Leon Powe, PF

Brian Scalabrine,

Theo Ratliff,

Michael Olowokandi,

COACHED BY DOC RIVERS

RECORD 24-58 LAST IN THE CONFERENCE

Rivers was on his way to being fired wow talk about short memories

The Boston Celtics acquired guard Ray Allen from the Seattle Supersonics on Thursday night for Delonte West, Wally Szczerbiak and the rights to the 2007 NBA Draft's No. 5 overall pick -- Georgetown forward Jeff Green. Boston also gets the rights to the Sonics' 35th pick -- LSU's Glen Davis.

Boston sent the Minnesota Timberwolves forwards Al Jefferson, Ryan Gomes and Gerald Green, guard Sebastian Telfair and center Theo Ratliff, two first-round draft picks and cash considerations. Besides Ratliff, 34, the other four are 24 or younger.

The amount of excuses some of you are making with these comparisons is simply unreal . Joe does not suck but Joe is not on a Garnetts level not even close .

Comparing all star players to top ten players is simply crazy .

Pierce like Joe made a 3rd team all nba team but Boston decided that to actually win anything they would have to go and get a superstar which is what they did in Garnett who up to the year he was traded to Boston was either 1st or 2nd team all nba and 1st or 2nd team all defensive team .

I dont even know why I have to explain that .....

I can say with a straight face that if JJ had Doc Rivers and two players as great as Allen, Pierce, or Garnett that he could win a title as the lead guy.

Not to mention a PG like Rondo. An enforcer like Perkins. A stretch 5 with a nice post game like Rasheed, Big Baby, P.J. Brown, Tony Allen etc. KG is getting a little too much credit. Surrounded by that kind of group JJ gets to the finals imo.

If JJ had Pierce or KG on the team he wouldnt be the lead guy ........THEY WOULD

When and where have you or us " hear teammates having to back up Josh because of the dumb decisions he makes, " I've never heard a teammate blast Josh. It is remarkable how some blame a Josh shot from the field the same as Blaming Josh when he recieves a pass with 4 seconds on the shot clock left, usually from Joe or Marvin. Teamates stagnant not moving or fighting for usefulness and Josh is left with the ball, to shoot. It has happened. Josh may actually be the best passer on the team. For me, you can have that punk hide and duck game these guys you love have. I believe we need more guys like Josh with heart and drive, guts and fight. Guys like Joal Anthony, Reggie Evans, Raja Bell, AK47, K Bogans. Keep the soft guys that are supposed to be tough but are not.

I believe you are just as out of touch with reality as Josh is when he is launching those 20 ft jumpshots .

His teammates dont say anything to Josh because mentally as soft as jello pudding and his antics scream of petty and spiteful displays .

Thats the only choice his teammates have if they even hope of for him to contribute anything.

Josh is not a bad player thats not what Im saying at all but this heart,drive,guts,fight BS your peddling is ridiculous hes shown nothing of the kind in quite some time .

But Im not giving Josh or Joe a pass either Im not happy with trio at all at this point . You cant have three players with these kind of flaws be your 3 best players and expect to get out of the second rd .

I disagree. When I see guys comfortably shrink in tough times I want them moved. Joe, Marvin and Al shrink in tough times. Josh is not only extremely talanted but extremely competitive. Josh don't give up he gives out. He is not apt to shrink as others do. He is the guy you want in the "foxhole", the one to go war with. Also Teague has shown that as well as Damien and Zaza. Al wants to be that jump shooting euro big and it's fine. But when the tough game is today and we needed him to dig in and battle he didn't, several games he didn't. While Al is so adored his trade value should be explored, not the heart of the team.

The only reason Josh showed up was because he was called out on national tv and was embarrassed. Its not even that he doesnt really show up its the fact that hes indifferent to what the team needs from him to actually win games .

At this point we cant trust anyone though as no one on this team is consistent. except Marvin who manages to consistently suck .

Here's the deal though... You don't know until you put Kmart, Magloire, and Redd on a team and it's going to matter who the PG and coach are.

In basketball, the things that matter the most:

1. Rebounding.

2. PG

3. Coaching

4. Defensive ability.

5. Offensive ability.

People thought that Houston won 2 times because Hakeem was so great. It wasn't about Hakeem. It was about the team that surrounded Hakeem and Hakeem. They covered every skillset that was necessary and they had good coaching. The same with the Pistons. It's not all about Ben Wallace. The missing piece was Rasheed Wallace who gave them an inside/outside presence and gave defenses fits on the matchup. Not to mention the things that Billups could do to a defense.

THAT'S TEAM BASKETBALL.

It's not an individual game. Yet, we're looking at our individuals saying why didn't they make us win?

LOOK AT THE TEAM...

Even as we improve the team, we still have flaws.

It's sad that Hawks fans would cry about the loss of our 5th OG type when we got the closest thing to a pure PG that we have had since Mookie. It tells me that our fanbase doesn't understand team building. There are going to be 78 other guys like the one who shall remain unmentioned... What we have to do is take our peices and put the puzzle together and figure out what piece is missing. Now that we have some good answers at PG, it's time for a 5. A real 5..

You dont need to know who the coach is when dealing Kmart,Magliore and Redd . You know they are good players but you also know you dont make them the alpha but know they would be great playing next to someone who is.

woah !! you have basically dug this trench around your comments trying to rewrite history to make it fit your claims Diesel .

Hakeem was the defensive player of the year and league MVP . Why dont you list the number of awards that Elie ,Kenny,Thorpe,Maxwell have won ?

Big Ben was defensive player of the year

You are talking about two of the best defensive bigs ever who were as consistent as they come . Good organizations dont build a team around inconsistency . Do you really think we have anyone who plays with the effort and production of those two ?

When your best players cant show up and bring there A games consistently well then its time to find new best players not more roles players who are dependent upon those best players who dont show up consistently.

You are talking about a very bad combination to be so attached too .

A - players you know arent the elite of the league

B- players who dont consistently play at a high level .

Kobe is an A

Joe is a B

fine we all know you dont need a team full of A's to win the title

But Kobe on most nights is giving consistently an "A" effort and production

while Joe on most nights is giving you a "C" with some "D" and a few "B" even having an "A" or two throughout the year.

How do you build a consistent team when your best players dont consistently give you there best ? same can be said for Josh and AL

Those 3 havent played consistently well together in quite some time .

Thats why its time to reevaluate this core and try and get someone at any position that can give us a "B" allowing us to have someone in place to even out the inconsistency of the other two . So instead of having then struggle with the burden of trying to give us a B we can further develop them into being consistent "C' instead of erratic "B' that the entire team depends on

Another guy that didn't watch who he speaks of..

While Magic and Kareem are great.

KG and Pierce and Allen were not.

It's even a question Mark on Wade. Without Help, Wade is a first round exit.. To Joe's Hawks.

However, My point was not a elevation of Joe. My point is the fact that these players didn't win it all until they got some real help in a real system. Even Kobe missed the playoffs until he got Pau...

Winning requires having the right conditions. 1 player cannot take a team anywhere. 1 great player cannot win a championship. I'm not saying that Joe is on Magic's level. But I am saying that Joe is good enough to be considered as part of our championship puzzle. History will show that as we look back over the Hawks best players... The order will be:

1. Petit

2. Nique

3. Deke

4. Joe

5. Smitty

Until somebody else comes along.

Pierce was not great he was a good player . and so was Ray Allen . Good player multiple all stars KG was a GREAT PLAYER an all nba caliber player and was one of the top 5 players in the nba for several seasons. But Pierce hovered in between the top 15-20 in the league and Allen in the top 20-25 . KG was top ten offensively and top 5 defensively .

As I said if we could get a true top ten player that would push Joe,Al;,Josh down a notch we would be fine and they would flourish. But no role player is gonna do it .

As for Wade if we swapped Wade for Joe right now we would be considered title contenders .

You keep saying they got help but keep ignoring the fact that they were also players who brought there A games the majority of the time . We dont have anyone that does that .

Kobe brought his A game pretty much all the time and the Lakers were able to bring in Paul who brought his A game maybe 70-75% of the time that creates a formidable tandem

Joe,Al,Josh hardly ever all play well together and now are at the point where they take turns bring there A games and are at the point where they are now bringing there A games one out of every 4-5 games .

There is no help for that no lesser player can come in and help them be more consistent. Thats why the teams with those great players can add a player or two and take it to the next level its because they are starting with someone who is consistently great.

*Allen Iverson (Philadelphia) G 6-0 165 5

*Vince Carter (Toronto) F 6-6 225 5

*Tracy McGrady (Orlando) G/F 6-8 210 4

*Jermaine O’Neal (Indiana) C/F 6-11 242 3

*Ben Wallace (Detroit) C 6-9 240 2

Ron Artest (Indiana)** F 6-7 246 1

Baron Davis (New Orleans) G 6-3 223 2

Jason Kidd (New Jersey) G 6-4 212 7

Jamaal Magloire (New Orleans)** C 6-11 259 1

Kenyon Martin (New Jersey)** F 6-9 234 1

Paul Pierce (Boston) G/F 6-6 230 3

Michael Redd (Milwaukee)** G 6-6 215 1

*Kobe Bryant (L.A. Lakers) G 6-6 220 6

*Tim Duncan (San Antonio) F 7-0 260 6

*Steve Francis (Houston) G 6-3 200 3

*Kevin Garnett (Minnesota) F 6-11 240 7

*Yao Ming (Houston) C 7-6 310 2

Ray Allen (Seattle) G 6-5 205 4

Sam Cassell (Minnesota)** G 6-3 185 1

Andrei Kirilenko (Utah)** F 6-9 225 1

Brad Miller (Sacramento) C 7-0 261 2

Dirk Nowitzki (Dallas) F/C 7-0 245 3

Shaquille O’Neal (L.A. Lakers) C 7-1 340 11

Peja Stojakovic (Sacramento) F 6-10 229 3

Thats the 2004 all star game rosters

Now no one back then was saying that if you took Kmart ,Magliore, and Michael Redd and put them on the same team that somehow they would be good enough to win a title . They would win games be a second rd team but everyone knows that there best is still not on the level of a Kobe and Shaq . It doesnt mean Redd,Kmart,Magliore suck and cannot be part of a title team it simply means they cannot be your 3 best players because there A game is not as good and they cant produce it as regularly as lets say a Kobe and Shaq or a Duncan Co .

The Pistons won a title but they had a top 5 bigman in Wallace who was dominant defensively .His CONSISTENCY on the glass and defensively is what anchored those teams we simply dont get that level of consistency from anyone and we have to find someone who can give it to us .

I never said Magic wasn't a superstar. I'm saying that those Lakers had several guys who could step up and be the number 1 guy. Moreover, Kareem was more the #1 guy than Magic. You must be young?? Probably never watched Showtime Lakers..

Let me school you youngin... Why do you think they called Kareem " The Captain"? What do you think it meant when Pat Riley put up the double fist int he 4th quarter? Who do you think was the NBA scoring leader of all time.. Magic or Kareem??

They were both great and they comprised A TEAM...

Dr. J couldn't win until Moses Malone came on the scene. That 76er team was great... a team filled with Allstars.. but it took one more before they were a championship team. They were all great but they comprised A TEAM....

KG was and is a superstar.. but in Minny, they talked about him not being able to get it done. In fact, KG got the reputaton of a stat Padder??? Until he won with the Celtics... They are all great, but they comprised A TEAM...

I really hope you misunderstood what I said.. because if you truly believe any of these guys carried a team to the championship, you need to pass whatever it is you're smoking to he left!!

The problem is this you equate Joe to Kareem or Magic or Dr J or KG when the fact is that no matter how you try and spin it Joe would be there sidekick . They would be the superstar and he would be the jamal wilkes.

Joe aint a superstar so to keep saying he needs help is ridiculous there is no amount of help in the league that we can Joe sans BRINGING IN A SUPERSTAR AND PUSHING HIM DOWN TO THE THE SECOND OR 3RD OPTION HE IS .

OF course the lakers had several guys who could step up but the facts are that Kareem and Magic were two of the most consistent players ever .

You like to use KG but KG was first team all nba the fact is that if you gave 29-30 yr old KG a player of Al,Josh,jamals caliber along with a Zaza and even Marvin Williams he gets this team to the finals at least .

Thats what the underlying problem really you keep trying to slide in that you think Joe is on the same caliber of player as these HOF players and hes simply not . Thats doest mean Joe sucks but that doesnt mean we should take on the ridiculous notion that we are somehow going to be able to build a championship team headlines with his inconsistency.

Thats our problem we have 3 very good players who are very inconsistent and whose play varies from game to game between average to good with occasional glimpses of greatness thrown in .

Kareem consistently great

Magic consistently great

KG consistently great

Now when you have someone who can give you that game to game and then you can add someone else who can consistently just be GOOD well now you are working with something.

We dont have anyone we can say brings there A game every game yet we somehow want to build a team around this ?

I dont think Joe ,Al or Josh sucks but I also believe that weve seen enough of them to know that they are nearly consistent enough to be locked into the status that weve given them .

The fact that Diesel is actually trying to convince someone that Magic Johnson was not a superstar is some kinda bad joke .

Isiah was a superstar

Magic and Kareem were superstars

Dr J was not a superstar ?

KG was a superstar

what ? lol roflmao

It really is laughable but also at the same time sad that its come to this .

You dont have to have a media darling but you arent sniffing a title unless you have someone playing at a elite(superstar) level consistently on your team . Pick your team and I can name someone who was playing as well as any superstar in the league when they won that title .

We barely get all star level consistently.

Where does this idea come that you need an superstar #1 option. Plenty of teams have won without a superstar #1 option. Celtics, Pistons, 76ers, Showtime Lakers. .. all these guys existed without having a true front man. Joe is what he is... 5 time allstar. Probably Best Hawk since Deke. The problem is that you guys have let his silence make you believe that he's not good. Anybody who is voted in by coaches 5 years in a row is pretty damn good. Anybody is an automatic double team most nights is pretty damn good.

Instead, you applaud Josh Smith who hits a wide open three and grabs his jersey and shows his heart... because he has .... Heart???

Cmon... give me a break.

Heart is not hittnig a big shot when you're wide open and the clock is winding down. Heart is the guy who goes 1 on 3 most of the night and still manages to get you 20 hard points. Heart is the guy who creates for everybody else on his team.

I laugh because you guys measure Joe with a Lebron ruler and say he don't measure up, he must go.. and then you talk about bringing in rookies and journeymen who won't do anything but help the rest of this team wallow in mediocrity until the window closes.

You need to learn what Building means.

Are you seriously referencing teams 25-30 years ago ?

Cmon now you know I dont appluad josh I think I made it very clear that no one on this team should be untouchable . I was saying this last summer .

I dont measure Joe with a lebron ruler I measure him with a TITLE ruler and he simply doesnt measure up but neither does anyone else on this squad .

Now does that mean that I believe any of them suck ? heck no but I dont believe that any of our core players can lead us to a title from there current status on this team . You can try and spin that anyway you want but I doubt that you could find a nba exec that would is agree with me .

Our core needs to all be slide down in status but we simply dont have the capabilities to get a player good enough to do it so we are stuck .

Joe is the best hawk since Deke ....Did I miss something ? Did Deke bring us a title ? No he anchored a team that had a superstar on it to the finals though ........hmmm so much for that dont need a #1 superstar

The bottomline is that in todays Nba you have to have someone who garners a certain level of respect and we dont have that player until we get that player we dont go any further .

I dont have a plan for a #1 option but while I think Joe is a good player he is no #1 option which is why I deem us to be screwed .

We have a team full of #2 and #3 options .

I think Crawford causes problems on both the offensive and defensive ends when he is on the floor at the 1 and that's where he plays most. I think the ridiculous 3s and 4 point plays lure us into thinking he's better than he is.

and how is that different from anyone else on this team ?

We let Crawford go when we didnt offer him a extension there really is no decision to be made regarding him now.

Kirk is not a scorer bringing him off the bench you better have 2-3 more guys on the bench that can play because one or two guys wont be able to fill the role that jamal played . Same thing goes for Teague.

And that about sums up why Josh Smith will never be great. Playing stupid basketball isn't acceptable if others are doing it. Great players would change the mentality. Josh is a complimentary player with some great flashes and that is it. He will never be a great player because he does not have the mental part.

but.. but hes a captain lol As a captain wouldnt you try and discourage that sort of behavior and try and steer the team in the right direction ?

Marvin/Hinrich for Foye/Kaman.

Both Foye and Kaman are expendable. LAC really needs a Sf. They could also use perimeter defense.

For us, we get a quality big... and a BU OG.

Of course we would do it but no way would they do it . Marvin is not worth anything now and no one in the league is gonna give us a starting center for him .

Just a guess here.

We can get Pau Gasol .

We can get Vince Carter and Robin Lopez.. and if we throw in Zaza, we can get Hakim Warrick

We can get Calderon and Klieza

We can get Kaman and Foye.

Only players we can get on that list and i would even put it at under 20% chance is Calderon and Kleiza they would laugh us off the phone on any of those other deals.

Marvin is at this point worth -0

I swear. Horford could make the Hall of Fame having played 90% of his career starts as a center, and some people will still say "just imagine if the Hawks had had a REAL center."

If Horford toughens back up, he's fine at center for the foreseeable future. If he doesn't, he's not - and he won't be fine at PF either (as we saw in the playoffs). But even as it is, he made the All-NBA team as a center, so it's kind of bizarre to argue that there's an upgrade to be at center when the NBA's head coaches just declared that there are only 2 better centers in the whole NBA.

the fact that that is what needs to happen pretty much is a smack in the face that changes need to be made .

The fact that people will still be saying IF when talking about 3 best players pretty much says that changes real changes to the core of this team need to be made .