Crank

What exactly is his value? Judging from what Teague gave the team in the Bulls series I'm sure the hawks would have gotten past the Magic had he got Kirk's minutes.

based on what ?

This deal makes sense for the Hawks but makes no sense for the Hornets. They would lose any semblance of post defense with undersized PFs like Landry and West left.

Jamal Crawford will turn 33 during the 1st year of Paul's contract.

Okafor would be going on 30 and Cs usually decline slower then SGs.

The deal makes no sense for us either as we dont hold Crawfords rights . We have absolutely no say so over what Crawford does so to start trade scenarios where we because we want someone from there team, we will send them Crawford is ridiculous .

I'm with Diesel in terms of keeping both and upgrading the rest of the roster first.

But at this point I don't care who would get traded, Josh or Al to make this team better. I like both players, but I also think the back and forth between SF/PF/C is problematic for both guys. If I had to make a life or death choice bewteen the two I'll pick Al. Here's why:

1. I have more confidence that Al will have a bounce back year from the horrible 2nd half season and playoffs than I have of Josh finally "getting it" and playing to his strengths consistently.

So its everyone elses fault ?

the underlying themes of these playoffs is that your best players have to play like it and then everything else trickles down. The fact is that Al,Josh,JJ, does not work how many times have you seen this year where all 3 have been on the top of there games at the same time ?

In that last game against the Bulls Deng,Boozer,Noah,Rose all came to play in the same game and we got sent home ....when was the last time we could say the same about our trio.

They very rarely play well together if JJ and AL has it going well then Josh is vanishes and if Josh and AL have it going well JJ disappears.

You seriously be considered a contender for anything when you have that sort of inconsistency at the top of your lineup.

Dal - Dirk has been ridiculous

OKC - Westbrook and Durant

Bulls - Rose

Mia - Lebron,Wade,Bosh

Can you honestly say that in the playoffs that our trio has played with anywhere near the consistency of any of those players . ? Trying to improve the players around will not make them more consistent.

The bottomline is that our team has gone as far as it can go with these three players being our best 3 players .

I would think big .

Joe AND Josh

for

Bynum ,Artest ,and Walton

The trade that needs to happen is Josh for Kaman but we would have to find a 3rd team as the Clipps wouldnt want Josh with Griffith already in the fold .

Why do people talk about a sign-and-trade as a viable option for Crawford? He's an unrestricted veteran free agent guard who offers volume scoring and absolutely nothing else. I see no circumstances under which a team would sign him above the mid-level.

Sorry, we're either re-signing Crawford or losing him outright. There will be no trading of him.

There are plenty of teams that would offer Crawford more than the MLE . At times he was our entire bench of course now you undervalue that but title contenders would love to have him on there bench.

The problems is that there are only a few winning teams with cap space and the rest of the teams with cap space are bottom dwellers .

I see why the Celtics would target Jamal as all of there bench guards would be free agents.

Its more about who is offering than how much they are offering at this point.

Why would Detroit with Stuckey and Gordon pay Crawford a boatload of money just to get rid of Rip ?

Besides Crawford is a unrestricted free agent why do you think you can call him up and tell him you wanna send him to Detroit ? :rofl:

The Suns would not trade you VC for Marvin but they would trade you Childress ?

Not to pull a Billy Knight, but at 6'8 289 I think he can defend the position a little better than Al at 6'10 230. He'd be much harder to dislodge from the lane and be a better rebounder because he's not out looking for a shot 15 feet from the goal on the offensive end. Al relies on speed and finesse, which has worked well so far, but he expends a TON of energy on the defensive end.

In my mind its like Teague and Heinrich being better for Joe because he's no longer needed to defend faster point guards. Al could now play his natural position which he's more comfortable with offensively. And as a team we benefit from some, who like Twin, is by the nature of their game and its limitations always in a better position for offensive boards.

Crawford cant get us anything we dont own his rights he can do whatever he wants . To move Marvin we will have to take back a bad contract the point is to at least have that bad contracts abilities be something we can use .

Crawford is not resigning here no matter what happens hes playing for a contract but not one with us .

It would work for stretches but you couldnt use that lineup as a starting lineup .

Jamal has won many games for the Hawks in his two years, but as you know he has struggled with his shot at times-- especially at home. Statistically, Jamal has struggled against the Bulls and has scored below his season average.

THIS IS AN UGLY SERIES-- a defensive series for the most part, but the emergence of Jeff Teague has changed things. I would like to see Teague 'set-up" Crawford..and I believed it happened a few times in this series. However, Teague's defensive prowess and speed and ability to break down and finish at the basket is what is needed.

When Jamal Crawford entered game, the Bulls led 18-15 in the first quarter; after a few misses and a turnover, the score was 30-17 Bulls. I am not say it is all Jamal's foault, but putting the defensive-minded and more athletic Damien Wilkens may have helped.

Jamal has opportunities to get going, but as a sixth man he has to be READY to make a positive impact.

4:09 Jamal Crawford enters the game for Jeff Teague

3:46 Jamal Crawford misses 19-foot jumper

2:13 Jamal Crawford misses driving layup

2:12 Jeff Teague enters the game for Joe Johnson

1:39 Jamal Crawford offensive foul (Keith Bogans draws the foul)

After the game got out-of-hand, Jamal made his only basket in the first quarter

0:33 Jamal Crawford makes 21-foot jumper (Zaza Pachulia assists) The score 32-21 at the end of the first quarter...

Jamal stayed in the game for a little while longer. into the second quarter..

11:00 Jamal Crawford misses 7-foot two point shot

10:04 Jamal Crawford out of bounds lost ball turnover

9:00 Jamal Crawford misses 23-foot three point jumper

The Hawks are fighting not to get blown out in the second quarter, but Jamal is still shooting --and mostly missing... score 34-25 Bulls

6:37 Jamal Crawford misses 15-foot jumper

6:26 Al Horford enters the game for Jamal Crawford

5:54 full timeout HAWKS ARE DOWN 40-30...

Things didn't get better when Jamal Crawford was in the game ...I WISH IT DID... but it didn't

Why would we have to bench jamal for missing a few shots he you conveniently left out that Jamal was was on the floor in the second after Teague picked up his second when we cut the lead down by halftime ?

Regardless of whether you like it or not the Bulls respect jamals offensive game enough to double him and force the ball out of his hands . Jamal got some good looks in the first half but didnt knock them down but hes still a respected scoring threat whom the opponent has targeted there entire defense into stopping along with Joe so we should basically do them a favor and keep Jamal out of the game altogether ?

4:09 Jamal Crawford enters the game for Jeff Teague 33-42

So, Teague shoots 73% FG and 5-7 at the FT line.... There is no way I blame this game on him. I think this was one of those cases where "if it's not broken then don't try to fix it." :scratchhead:

Joe went into the 4th thinking, "ok, I gotta take over." The bad thing is... is that Joe smucked everything up with his dribble, dribble, dribble.

Teague drove the baskett and was getting the fouls.

Joe should have just did his part in drawing the defense and letting the unknown players (Teague, Zaza and new Smoove) win that game.

isolation basketball lost the game but it wasnt Crawford as everyone was saying that was running the isos '

Teague played very well but the fact is that we pretty much need 45 from Joe and jamal combined to win these games . So Teague has to focus on a bit more on getting those two guys shots as they are having to work way to hard to get clean looks .

flip floppers rofl

27 minutes, 2 points.

Jamal Crawford's streaky outside shooting has been neutralized for the past FOUR GAMES, and other options must be considered. In all due respect, what game are you watching?

Jeff Teague has done a great job as the point guard and the more he plays, it seems that he gets better. Crawford is a sixth man who is supposed to be instant offense, and if his shot isn't falling and his defense is lacking, he needs to be benched.

The Hawks can't win if they can't limit Deng and Bogans.

Horford and Josh Smith were in foul trouble in the 4th quarter, but putting Jason Collins who only had one foul along with Damien Wilkins should have been done early in the 4th quarter.

Luol Deng scored 23 points and Keith Bogans scored 11 points in Game 5.

You said we should have let jamal sit so basically we shouldve benched the entire second half Teague and Joe shouldve played the entire game ? is this what you are saying ?

Bogans is irrelevant Deng is the one who is hurting us '

You said Jamal should not play point but he should be instant offense with no plays run for him ? What shots have you seen Teague create for jamal ? in fact when have seen Teague set jamal up for any shot whatsoever ?

As i said before we didnt know if jamal couldve turned it on the 4th because we never went to him .

He had 3 assists in the last 2 minutes of the 3rd and then once the 4th started it became the tired Joe and Teague show . the only shots he got in the second half while the game was close was two long bailouts attempts to beat the shot clock

Gibson and Asik is what won the game for them in the 4th .

I always watch and see what Drew does after a timeout because he gives a you a clue to what he thinks shouldve been happening but wasnt leading up to the the timeout

When he called that timeout we came out and immediately went to the ball in jamals hands where it shouldve been from the start of the quarter to begin with.

Now the next game you will see jamal with the ball in his hands to start the 4th with either Joe or Teague or both on the bench and we will pull away and win .

I thought Joe did well but we shouldve gave him his usual rest at the start of the 4th . He was clearly tired in the 3rd

Once I saw Steve Javie was the ref I knew that we had better get an early lead or we were done .

That's just Crawfrod. We couldn't count on the guy to play like Allen Iverson on steroids for two series in a row. The guy is the very definition of feast or famine and the truth is that there will be nights like last night where the guy is just going to be liability. Hopefully he can get in a groove again, but we can't be counting on it.

But hes not a liability hes a threat even if he doesn't have the ball because the Bulls will still respect his scoring ability that opens up the floor for Joe and Teague the problem is they established themselves very well as not going to give up the ball so when the bulls defense did collapse in the 4th they had no passing angles .

I wish Jamal would have gotten into a rhythm in Game 5, but Coach Drew must shut him down if he can't make shots EARLY. Going 0-for-3 and a turnover is a invitaion for the bench, because the Bulls know Jamal is a liability defensively and not committed.

The Hawks have enough scorers, but the committment to defense has to become even more of a priority.

Additionally, Jamal as backup point guard is NOT a good idea either. Jeff Teague's speed and ability to get to the basket and FINISH is something that must be on the court as much as possible. Jamal is a finesse player who will shoot the Hawks out of this series if Coach Drew allows it.

What does Coach Drew have against DAMIEN WILKINS?

I hate to tell you this but we dont win this series without jamal . You can try and convince yourself that we can but if he doesnt show up these next two games we lose .

we have enough scorers ? what team have you been watching ?

If jamal shouldnt play point guard shouldnt someone be setting him up for shots then ? How can he score if he doesnt have the ball and no one is passing ?

jamal didnt come into the game until under 2 minutes left in the 3rd quarter and he had 3 assists in those final 2 minutes . Are you saying that we shouldnt have even played him in the second half ?

We need to be trying to figure pout how to get him going because we cant win this series without him .

Joe and Teague was guilty of that last night

I can't be the only one whose noticed that since game 1 Crawford has been completely killing us on both sides of the floor. We all know he's not a good defender but he's out there for his offense. Where is it? He has been putting up clunkers for five games in a row now.

So what happened?

Well in games 2-4 he was being doubled and has been given up the rock only to never get it back.

On one hand you guys want him to not play the point but are not asking why is no one creating any looks for him or why we are not even running any plays for him .

How many times have you seen Joe and Teague kick it out. When either of them drive they are not kicking they are tossing it up at the basket unless someone is open under the basket.

Outside of the 4th quarter pass for that Crawford three in game 4 even though they are doubling Joe and jamal alot how many times have you even seen the ball make it past 2 passes .

Too much im only gonna give the ball up if they force me to from this team against a good defense and not enough ball sharing

We normally go to our bench to start the 4th instead we went iso joe and iso teague and they were dog tired .

How come we didnt goto Zaza in the post against Asik to start the 4th ? Zaza was playing great hit that jumper to end the the 3rd and never saw the ball again because of iso joe and iso teague

First off we dug ourselves a hole again . The game was there for the taking by the starters and they couldnt do it and just like game two allowed Deng to establish himself to start the game mainly because we looked totally unfocused

This game was lost on Drews refusal to play the bench .

We finished the 3rd quarter strong with the ball in jamals hands and him passing for 3 straight assists on 3 straight possessions

In the 4th he put back in Joe and Teague instead of going with a Jamal.Wilkins,Marvin,Al ,Zaza lineup .

we went iso teague and iso joe to start the 4th and they were tired while jamal who usually actually does have the ball to start the 4th spent most of the time relegated to standing in the corner

we then took out Zaza and put back in Josh who also needed a longer rest

even the announcers in the 3rd were talking about how tired Joe looked and Teague spent a ton of energy in the 3rd .

No, it was Joe and JC. Looking at the first 4mins of the 4th. http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/playbyplay?gameId=310510004&period=4

im gona explain this again because you dont seem to understand what was going on .

jamal took one from way out off of a Horford offensive rebound but it was to beat the shot clock

The other shot he took was to beat the clock after JJ dribbled the shot clock out and got trapped in the paint

11:10 70-71 Derrick Rose makes driving layup

10:45 Taj Gibson blocks Joe Johnson's layup 70-71

10:44 Al Horford offensive rebound 70-71

10:42 Jamal Crawford misses 27-foot three point jumper 70-71

10:42 Atlanta offensive team rebound 70-71

10:42 shot clock turnover

9:33 70-73 Chicago defensive team rebound

9:11 Jamal Crawford misses 26-foot three point jumper 70-73

Crawford did not have the ball Teague and Joe controlled the ball and Crawford was in the corner .

Im not saying he played well Im saying that he had very little to do with what happed in the 4th quarter offensively to us.

We simply did not move the ball well at all and there was too much standing around as JJ and Teague went one on one

Zaza shouldve been in to go against Asik who played big for them down the stretch

We went small when we shouldve stayed big and they went defensive Rose,Bogans,Deng,Gibson,Asik

You can blame the refs but I blame Joe Johnson and Crawford. NOT Horford. Our offense was going well with the ball in Teague's hand. It was Joe and Crawford at the start of the 4th. They were too damn determine to try to get their points in and started going iso. Teague, Al, Zaza and even Josh were moving the ball and trying to got to the basket.

Sorry guy that was Teague you guys are confusing Teague with jamal . Teague and JJ went iso crazy jamal just stayed in the corner

There definitely were a few possessions where Jamal dribbled around for awhile before making an unproductive pass with just a few seconds left on the clock. Those were wasted possessions even though Crawford's "contribution" to them don't show up in the stat sheet. Same with JJ.

No its not you are confusing jamal with Teague jamal did not have the ball teague and Joe controlled the ball the entire quarter

If you want I will post a video of every possession jamal pretty much stood in the corner the entire quarter while Joe and teague did there thing