Crank

I said jamals although I thought Joes had more flair .

The reason I said jamals is because while Joes shot had more flair it was more of a indicator that we arent gonna lay down whereas jamals shot is a giant sign that says we are here to win .

Jameer Nelson has been having his way with him all damn series. I don't know what games you have been watching sir but in the fourth quarter we had to resort to putting Joe Johnson on Jameer so we could hide Jamal's non existent defense. Thankfully for us Turkoglu and Richardson can't make a shot to save their lives because when they ran the high pick and roll both Jamal and JJ would just get swallowed up by the screener and disappear completely from the play causing our defense to collapse on the drive and leaving the corner three open virtually all second half long. Jamal hasn't played a lick of defense during any of the 10 + years he has been in the league and he has been pretty damn bad overall this series on that end of the court. The way Crawford has played on offense this series the dude should be getting 40 minutes plus just like JJ and the rest of our "Big three", only reason that doesn't happen is because we need Hinrich guarding Neslon for a good portion of the game because Jamal and JJ can't guard the guy at all. You can call me a hater all you want but I'm just calling it like I see it, if it were up to me Jamal would be all nba on defense but that just isn't the case at all IMHO.

jameer nelson ? What !!

Game one

Jameer

Gm 1 - 27 pts 1 assist 6 rebs 55% shooting

Gm 2 13 pts 2 assists 8 rebs 26% shooting

Gm 3 13 pts 10 assists 5 rebs 29 % shooting

38 minutes per game

17 ppg 4 apg 6 rpg on 38% shooting is somehow considered as having his way ?

Joe wasnt on jameer the entire 4th he was on him a couple of possessions as was jamal then Kirk came back in with 9 minutes left in the 4th and even the announcers talked about how the Kirk jamal backourt really got back control of the game. We havent had to hide jamal this series as hes been the second best player in the series .

If what you are saying is true then Reddick shouldve gotten 30 or Qrich or whoever jamal was guarding . If he doesnt play any defense then anyone he is on should be scoring and if jamal is not playing any defenses and none of these guys can crack 40% from the field then what kinda defense are they considered to be playing when hes averaging 23 ppg in 31 minutes off the bench on 44% shooting from the floor and 59% from three ?

What a dumb remark.

Watch it again...he just dribbled and jacked up a three pointer. I am glad it went in but it was not an appropriate shot for the situation.

actually as I said he found a smaller defender on him so he knew he could get his shot over him whenever he wanted . He sized him up got to what he called his sweet spot and rose and shot I think the replay clearly shows that it wasnt a desperation type of throw it was a shot .

The play was a pick and roll with jamal and joe if jameer switches then the ball goes to Joe with jameer on him and he takes him in the post. Weve ran that play quite a few times including a couple of times earlier that game

Anyone whose played basketball and can shoot the rock knows that the corners and that spot where jamal shot from are the easies shots in the game for a shooter. You put someone 6+ inches shorter on him and he would make very high percentage of that same shot .

As i said when you take into account this guy is one of the best three point shooters in league history . The best at making them while getting fouled and he even has 10+ game winners so hes done it under pressure before .

He's been as dreadful as always on defense imho.

oh please Im so tired of this stuff . The haters make these blanket statements and then never can give credit where credit is due .

jamal has a couple of steals and a couple of blocks .

According to some of you

Jameer was gonna take him every time he guarded him

Jrich was gonna post him up everytime he guarded him

He couldnt follow Reddick around those screens so he couldnt

None of it has happened with any type of frequency if jamal has been just dreadful why cant they take advantage of him ? Hes playing 31 minutes per game and no one has been able to exploit his dreadful defense yet ?

Could it be that the entire defensive issue is just a wee bit exaggerated and that most teams will not abandon there entire philosophy in order to get a couple of baskets on jamals supposedly weak defense ?

If jamal is this supposed fountain of easy baskets they sure as heck arent drinking from him that often . whereas he sure as heck has jumped into the fountain against the Magics guards

I am so glad it went in but it was an absolutely terrible shot. Crawford dribbled the clock down to nothing without remotely willing to pass it to anyone and then jacked up a bad shot with a man in his face. It was clutch though.

actually it was a pick and roll between him and Joe and they didnt switch and then our 6'5 guard shot over there 5'9 guard . Only people who say it was a bad shot are people who cant play . The fact of the matter is I would rather have not put it in the hands of the refs its a surefire way to get screwed in todays nba unless you are a superstar.

because joe doesnt make quick decisive moves he would be extremely easy to turn away from the basket and stretch out the play

Yes it will work if LD keeps it up. When LD pulled Josh for the second time, Smoove was actually surprised he was getting pulled from the game. It was as if he didnt understand what he was doing wrong out there. His reluctance to shoot at the end showed that he can be reached. Last night was a hard lesson in proper decision making being that it was on national TV AND in front of a sellout home crowd but it was necessary. I wanna see how Josh responds in Game 4.

Also lets not forget that Josh threw the ball out of bounds 2-3 times uncontested lol

know your role

know your role

know your role

as Ive said before that Josh wants to be scottie pippen when we need him to be Dennis rodman

He will be 30 years old and losing all his athleticism before he tries to change ala Vince carter

I know that everyone is on a crawford bump right now, but let us not forget that he isnt always on. Actually if I remember correctly he and joe took several horrible iso shots last night in the 3rd quarter with no ball movement. We need to let him walk after the season and pick up a good bench scorer in free agency, I doubt we can find someone who can get as hot as him but we can find someone who is a good scorer and has better defensive ability.

As my dad told me last night .

People like to think the grass is greener on the other side .

JJ Reddick is a good bench scorer

Jamal is a starter that happens to come off our bench

as for the 3rd quarter you do know that Jamal came into the game at a little over the 4 minute mark . We had only scored 4 pts since halftime :scratchhead: Jamal in the last 4 minutes had 6 points by himself .

We may not want him but I guarantee you the other contenders would love to get him .

no !, u really wanna see jamal crawford get abused by guys like d wade ??

lol I couldnt resist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqSye6JIZmQ

My dad was too lol .

But like I told him when you have someone thats top 40 in the history of the nba in made three point shots and also the all time leader in 4pt plays . Its hard to doubt him and that jumpshot when he can size someone up. The more difficult the shot looks the more likely it will go in especially for jamal.

If I was a Magic fan Id be getting oxygen in back of an ambulance right now .

Everyone knows I love JC1 to death but that was some BS .........roflmao but Ill take it

I noticed LD maneuvered his sub pattern to get josh out of the game lol and to get the lineup of Kirk,jamal,JJ,Horf and Zaza onto the court

- Jamal is not a playmaker. He's a scorer.

- Nobody is talking about limiting his touches.

- If you don't understand the benefit of playing a scorer (and a jumpshooter at that) off the ball, then I'm not going to explain it.

- I'm also not going to explain why having him at the point means more ISO/one on one. I will say that his purpose coming into the game is just that - shoot the ball as much as he can. And that is exactly what he does and will do.

- LD's Motion Offense^™ is not reliant upon a playmaker and if it's all the same, I'd rather have Teague on the floor for his defense (at minimum - limited minutes) when Hinrich comes out.

I hope that's enough answers for you, because I'm checking out of this thread. :bye:

Jamal is a playmaker hes had just as many big assists as hes had big shots for us . Playmaking is not just about being a pure passer its about being able to create shots for yourself and others

You are limiting his touches when you are putting the ball in the hands of guards who dont create a bunch of shots for other players themselves and we dont call a bunch of plays for him .

I fully understand the benefit of playing a scorer like jamal of the ball on some other team but on this team what evidence do you have that it will work or has worked ?

You cant explain why it means iso because it really doesnt you like quite a few others see him dribble up and assume him dribbling the ball up the court means that its an isolation play . But when he comes into the game he doesnt shoot the ball as much as he can and we dont even try and get him the ball most of the time . Last year with Woody we did what you are talking about but this year it hasnt been much of that at ll its based on reputation really .

LDs motion offense ? but I thought we were running iso's ? But if his offense doesnt call for a playmaker then what is the issue with jamal bringing the ball up and passing it off ? You seem to be just making excuses for this stuff because you wanna see Teague play . You wanna see Teague defense in the game ? WHAT !!!!!!! You cant sit there and make that claim no one can make a claim saying that they know what Teague will do when he gets into the game because hes done nothing consistently since hes been in the pros .

Ive said since before the series that Teague will probably get minutes at home but its his chance to show he can contribute anyone claiming that they know what he will do tomorrow is basically lying to themselves as he could just as easy come in and have 2 turnovers and stupid fouls as he could have a great block and a steal .

We all respect the fact that Jamal is shooting well. I even predicted that he (or Al) would be series MVP. With JJ the way he has been, it's even more vital that Jamal get his shots.

Do I want him running the point? No.

In the playoffs? Absolutely not. What Jamal at the point basically amounts to is one on one/iso basketball. That's fine as long as his shot is falling like it did in game one. I'm much more comfortable with him off the ball and away from the ball and if Hinrich isn't in the game, I think Teague at a minimum could get the job done in limited stretches. Morevoer, I have no questions about his ability to defend the perimeter - which is really what the thread is about.

again you havent answered what does moving jamal to sg do for his scoring and our overall team scoring which is nothing . Again thats why jamal even when Kirk is in brings the ball up

first hes our best ballhandler and he doesnt get pressured

neither Kirk nor Teague are shot creators they dont create a bunch of shots for others

How many plays did you see us run for jamal even when kirk was in at sg ?

We dont do a bunch of isolations plays because jamal is in . Once you figure in the end of the quarter plays and the fact that jamal is taking 6 threes a game what isolations plays are you talking about ?

What do you guys think a pg for this team does ? Our pg duties involve calling the play passing it either to Joe on the wing or in the post or giving it to the big and cutting through and then they make the decision . Those things do not change no matter who is the pg .

I find it hard to be behind any offense that does not get the ball into the hands of your playmakers as much as possible . Saying you want him off the ball is basically saying you want to cut his offensive touches which makes no sense.

why would we want to take the ball out of Crawfords hands at this point ?

Where does this fantasy that Teague somehow creates offense for anyone besides himself come from ?

Crawfords been on fire and yet how many plays have you seen us run for him off the ball ? If we wont run them for him as hot as hes been the last two games when hes in with the starters why would we then expect us to run them when teague comes in ?

Teague should get some minutes tonight but please can we stop with the drug induced ideas of him coming in as a pg who is gonna distribute the ball ? When he comes in he should come in as a Nate Robinson type smaller guard looking for his shot .

And also, a major reason why were able to stick around in game 2 was because Jamal was just flat out making tough shot after tough shot, he scored 25 points! Can we honestly expect him to keep on this pace to finish the series. I honestly don't and seeing how Joe always struggles when the pressure is on him is a cause for concern. We paid him to be our best player, and so far he hasn't even taken over a game these past 3 years.

I dont know about this Supporter Jamal just isnt playing well for the playoffs hes been playing well for the entire month of April . Considering hes not really going against good perimeter defenders I expect him to be locked in for the rest of this series. The probem I saw in game two was that Joe didnt adjust to the situation and use his help When Craw has it going like that I feel that Joe shouldnt need to work as had as he was trying to fight that double all the time he should be playing off of Craw by becoming the spot up shooter in the corner .

Everytime I make a great point, you just start talking about something different, but fine.

It's twice now that the Magic has pounded the Hawks on the boards. Rebounding is a consistant part of playoff basketball and the magic has always been a good rebounding team. The free throws are always going to be called no matter if you think they are not real fouls because Howard averaged 12~ FT attempts per game and all our bigs are doing is fouling him as soon as he gets to the basket.

By the way why is everybody forgetting the horribly lucky shots we made? The three 3 pointers that came WAY beyond the line and some random tip in adds up to 11 points. You're making all these excuses about how blah blah blah next time this will happen blah blah.

Ok ok I'm gonna stop talking as if I'm a hawks fan :)

JJ and Craw both have range out to that far . Crawford is the league all time leader in 4 pt plays and both JJ and Jamal are top 40 in nba 3pt fg made all time.... ALL TIME . When these guys hit threes they are not luck

Marvin missed at least 3 layups by my count and I dont expect him to be superman but he is getting great looks he should be feasting as wideopen as he has been .

Everytime someone tells me we should play Teague on the road it just screams I wanna tank the entire series

He will get his shot at home so we see if he even wants to play on Friday

Ummm we would have rebounded better if the refs hadn't gotten all our bigs in foul trouble in the 1st half.

sorry nope we didnt even start rebounding until the 4th quarter . It had nothing to do with Josh having 1 board at halftime . You cant talk about not getting fouls calls with that type of rebounding disparity . In the NBA if you are not going in the paint you are not gonna get a ton of calls . The only player on the Hawks in the paint was the guy guarding Dwight ........ I just watched the game again and I have never seen anything like that having a 3rd guy guard Dwight and not double him should free up Josh and Al to rebound more not less .

If we rebounded the ball better the refs and Dwights ft attempts wouldnt mean anything . Its hard to complain about foul calls when we didnt even try and rebound

We have to rebound the ball ....... that is all

U obviously didn't see the monster 3rd quarter that Nelson had wit Hinrich on the bench..the hawks were reeling and barely won the game..

Dude sit down . You mad ?

Nelsons run produced a 3 pt difference . Thats right he scored but he only cut the lead from 17-13 points with those mad baskets .

Secondly he didnt start scoring because Hinrich left he came out in the 3rd quarter aggressively looking for his shot something he didnt do in the first (3 shots entire first half 12 shots 3rd qt alone )

Did you even count the points ? Were you rooting for nelson so hard that you didnt notice that he was giving up baskets on the other end ?

Some of you tossing Teagues name as if hes some type of difference maker is the biggest joke in all of Hawkfandom .

To imply that we were reeling at the end of the 3rd quarter tells me that maybe you didnt see the game after all.

I expect us to to actually be hot tomorrow and play with even more energy. We know the strategy works now and we know what they will try and do to adjust to it .

True, but Collins is gonna get SCREWED in Game 2. I anticipate 2 ticky tack fouls on Collins early on. The Hawks need to be prepared for that. I'm not being negative, I just have the feeling that 'adjustments' will be made in how the game gets called. Collins will have to be EXTRA careful early on to stay in the game. All that said, dude earned his pay and more in Game 1. The stats don't show it, but Twin was WORKING out there.

I dont think so why would he get screwed Dwight had 40+ points . There wont be any need to call anything differently and didnt twin pick up 2 quick ones in the fist game ?

If anything weve got to rebound better

I was at the Trailblazers game when Teague played like "THE MAN". Portland isn't a poor team to be fair. He played his best game of the year against a team that's picked by many to upset the #3 seed in the West. Portland's game is built around hustle and defense and Teague out-hustled and out-defended them in that game. I'd like to see him get some burn. Maybe a better distribution of the 1-2-3 minutes of...

Hinrich-30

Johnson-38

Crawford-28

Marvin-15

Teague-8

Smoove-25 (another 10-12 at PF)

That's not enough minutes to kill you IMO, but Teague can give you some solid relief at the PG position. This only leaves Craw out there at PG for 10 minutes.

Since when do you crack the rotation on a playoff team by playing good in ONE GAME .........against a team in the other conference at that ?

Teague hasnt played well against Orlando and has really only played well in our losses so why would the coach play him on this road in this situation ? He will probably get his shot at home and its in his own best interests to be ready to play