OldTimeHawk

    Does anyone here think Ferry doesnt deserve  GM of the year ???  Does anyone think if hes let go he stays unemployed if there is an opening  GM job??   He made a lot of bold moves that a lot of folks here blasted him about yet it seems like every move has paid  off in spades - I can get over a pc slip just like I can get over the  Falcons if they pick up N. Suh in the off season - I just want to win ( unless of course Suh kills someone on the field then  of course no )

Kinda funny that this " ELITIST" is probably leading the way for GM of the year and hasnt associated with the team since before the season started .  Im willing to bet you Atlanta is going to have zero problems attracting the free agents we need next year.

I'm glad that we will get to see what Bud can do with the rest of this season.

I am excited at the prospect of having New owners sometime in the future.

I am not so quick to excuse DFerry of his self imposed punishment just because we are winning.  It's a shame that people are willing to give him a pass based on our record?  IF we had a losing record, would you still give him a pass?

 

In fact, let's not allow him to be the distraction for this franchise.  Don't rock the boat.  Let's let Bud do his great work.  Hopefully, Bud makes himself into an asset for the next owners.

I gave him a pass before - I always thought it was knee jerk bs especially after we learned the source of what he read in a closed meeting. Words will always be words, but I tend to judge by a lifetime of hard work and actions and what the people that know him and work with him think - not some idiots that are always looking for reasons to be offended - like these idiots that dont like him because hes from Duke - personally I always hated Duke And North Carolina because the deck was always stacked in their favor - BUT hes our GM now and only an idiot would want him out after his turnover of this roster has been so successful.

how many years did Teague languish on the bench ?? Give the man some time to develop - hes been hurt and out of the loop with his teammates and on a team that is already 10 deep in its lineups. 

Is there any dispute whatsoever that this is Ferry's team ?? Ferry coach ?? Ferrys cap space ??  So given all that shouldnt it also be Ferry getting the credit ???

Adding to this , before the season started  Ferry was getting dogged for theteam he assembled  - so why ZERO love for the guy  Diesel ?? Is it the elite thing again ??

the system will create a superstar . But the system will decide who shines on any given night. What we have  here is a product of shrewd management , good coaching, and the players buying into the system . On any given night  someone  from 1 - 10 on the depth chart can step up and provide critical play that carries the team. 

wow ! great win Hawks ! these guys are really playing well nd seem to feed off each others energy .  Who's next ???

Well, at least with Ferry out of the picture, we won't trade the pick for Capspace or waste the pick on a first rounder who we will hide overseas.

  HOW CONVENIENTLY YOU FORGET.

summary - we amnesty Joe, continue paying him  and get nothing . You feel like this is the best course for the Hawks .  Ferry on the other hand got rid of a declining Joe without using amnesty and got picks and cap space.  

Detroit we found your next GM !!

The numbers did decline Moving to a new system playing amoung several guys who needed touches.  However, I also noticed that his numbers improved with Pierce gone.  But that's nothing.  As far as untradable contract?  Sure.  However, we also had the right to cancel Joe's contract any time we wanted.  Did you forget that we could Amnesty Joe's contract?  The thing is all this Ferry dust out here has made a legion of people who don't see the big picture.  The big picture is that we traded Joe for Nothing and we still get this great promise of how cap flexibility is going to help us bring in good players.  When all I see us picking up are more guys who can play BU roles.  The system isn't working because Joe's gone.  The system is working because Woody is gone.  And Drew is gone. And Marvin is gone.  And Smoove is gone.

lets  see - we can trade him away , get their number 1 darft pick  and get expiring contracts or we can amnesty him and have to pay him but get the contract off the cap ?? Are you really proposing amnesty  was a better option??

Had we just removed Marvin, we could have gotten Korver.

 

Had we removed Marvin and Smoove, we could have gotten the main peices to our puzzle.

The Joe trade was a bust.

I guess you dont remember his contract being deemed around NBA circles as being untradable. I guess you dont remember his numbers declining.  I guess you dont see or just totally ignore that hes been a huge disappointment in Brooklyn.  Seems like sometimes dream teams on paper dont always add up to an NBA championship .

 Are you seriously going to say this team is worse off since Danny Ferry took over ??

So far that Joe trade is looking like a bust to a degree. All of the players we got from that trade are bad or weak. With that said, we got Kyle Korver with that capspace and that is the most impactful move thus far.

 

His drafts have been bad with some solid 2nd rounds and clearly drafting Dennis was huge.

we moved a player with a huge contract that wouldnt fit our system and disappeared come playoff time.  Just getting someone to take the contract was a win for us and our ability to rebuild - without Joe gone this rebuild takes twice as long.

I had to add also a player that has to dominate the ball to get his numbers - this system requires ball movement to be successful  so iso Joe had to go .  Hows it working out for the Nets ??

This is a hypothesis that haven't been proven true yet.  All the championship teams have had marquee players.  No system team has ever won a championship.  There's still 3-4 minutes per game that requires somebody to stepup.  Usually, that's your marquee player.

It's easy to look at Marquee players in bad situations that just can't win.  However, that isn't the same as if that Marquee player were in a good situation.

Right now, we have a good situation but no real Marquee player.

the system will create marquee players. Just as it does in San Antonio . Ever notice AFTER players leave San Antonio they just arent quite the same player?? Its the system which requires players to fill roles according to their strengths.

just call this part of the season the showcase series - this part of the season is going to go a long way to helping us grab some much needed help inside at trade deadline.  Thank you Ferry  for keeping your eye on the prize !

They need any rebounding that they can get.

lets put it this way - I play rugby where its nonstop running - I taped up and was fine to plant and drive off my foot.  When I said they dont need him  they have players that right now are better and can do much of the same thing so they are going to get him well before putting him out there. If he was at this point essential to their success they would have him out there.

a good trainer can wrap that up and make it feel pretty good IF he needs to play . The Hawks simply dont need him so they are giving him rest.

Losing doesn't necessarily help you win, but losing helps you get a shot at an elite talent.   A franchise changing talent.   The problem is that all drafts aren't created equal.   And all top 5 lottery picks aren't potential superstars.   But there's no denying that if you look at who are the stars on elite teams, most of them are very high lottery picks.

 

These are the 3 All-NBA team player selections from last season, and where they were picked in their respective draft.   Lottery picks are in BOLD.  Top 5 lottery picks are in BOLD RED

 

1st team

 

Paul . . 4th

Harden . . 3rd

Durant . . 2nd

Lebron . . 1st

Noah . . . 9th

 

 

 

2nd team

 

Curry . . . 7th

Parker . . 28th

Griffin . . . 1st

Love . . . . 5th

Howard . . 1st

 

 

 

3rd team

 

Dragic . . . 45th

Lillard . . . . 6th

Aldridge . . 2nd

George . . . 10th

Jefferson . . 15th

 

 

We have a 3rd pick in the draft.  He's a very good talent, but not an elite or franchise changing talent.  But it's not like we're trying to maximize all of his talents either.   The organization seems to be content with Horford being exactly what he is right now, and not trying to get the most out of him.   It's all about the system, and not about the system possibly turning him from a very good player, to a borderline elite player.

 

So if it's the system that is most important, we need as much top level talent as we can get.  IF that means trading some of your mid level talent ( or even a draft pick ) for better talent, that's what you do.  If you have to overpay for free agents to get higher level talent, that's what you do.

 

And you don't have to cripple yourself financially to do this.  When you're a gazillion dollars under the cap, it's not going to kill a team to overpay a higher level talent that can help them more than going to the Dollar Store and buying up a bunch of cheap talent.  Hopefully Bud, in his new role, will realize this.

all those players , how many championships with the teams that drafted them ??? Durant in my opinion hurts his team as much as he helps them - Labron they had to go out and get pair him with 2 other elite type players and they still lost twice in the championship . 

Money is, was , and always will be one of the biggest factors coupled with coaching/ managing - probably more managing personalities than coaching.  Whats Labrons record in finals ?? Hardens ?? Durants ??  If you have a system that depends on 1 player its not going to be enough - now that one player may help carry your team, but you have to have a good supporting cast that understands its role. 

 To say we need to lose to win is the type of culture that I personally dont want to be assocaited with .

money is at the heart of championship teams .  How many times year in and year out do you see the same bad teams in the lottery ?? To say losing helps you win isnt exactly accurate and it doesnt guarrantee you walk awy with a superstar.  Atlantas fragmented ownership is the biggest obstacle to winning period - look at what happened when we attempted to get Joe Johnson - right or wrong it sparked a war within the ownership group.

Lebron was drafted by Cleveland #1 overall

Durant was drafted by OKC #2 overall

Kobe was drafted by LAL late in the lottery

Spurs drafted Duncan #1 overall

Paul was acquired in a trade for LAC's successful lottery pick (Eric Gordon) and Minnesota's 2012 lottery pick

 

What option do you think we aren't pursuing?  It rhymes with "bottery nick".

That is an option - also why not  either jettison all your quality players for draft picks, put scrubs out there for a season to basically be placeholders and lose night in and night out - and hope you get lucky in the lottery .

Neither of those teams are contenders but the team with the superstar can become one by adding good complimentary pieces. As long as you start from the premise that you plan to be competitive with other non-contenders the only disagreement you are likely to have is whether that is a worthy goal.

maybe I dont understand your definition of " superstar" - I think there are maybe 4 superstars in the league right now - then there are players that are in the range of what we already have with Horford.  Lebron - Durant being the top 2 that could change your team .  Coby is on the way out . Chris Paul - again you keep saying superstar but even Lebron had to have a stacked deck to win it all. Durant  couldnt do it with Hardin or Westbrook .  The Spurs did it with a solid presence in the middle and key supporting pieces - I just dont think the Hawks can get a superstar unless we draft him and develop him. 

 So having said that ( and if you cant explain where the superstar is coming from) what better options do you have that the Hawks arent already doing ??

It's a belief by a few ( not most ) but a few fans that we're doing something really groundbreaking here.  That Bud's system can conquer all, even if he don't have many high level players on the roster.   

it is what it is - how many teams are looking for that superstar ?? If you dont think that a system with specific pieces can compete with a team that features a superstar talent but not much else I dont know what to tell you .  I dont want to see JJ.2 on this team where we live or die  with a superstar dominating the ball.  

 Its not about being groundbreaking , its about having a superior leader that can make everyone better and aspire players into beleiving in the system so much that they will do things outside their comfort zone - like actually playing defense or being unselfish with the ball , etc.  At the end of the day we all know this - we arent getting a superstar so if you have a better plan on how this team gets better let us all know.

solid lineup put together by " Mr Elitist " - all we need now is a Superstar ?? Maybe we just need to grow this team and try to have balanced scoring so stopping 1 person doesnt  stop the team. 

If this team is playing good fundamental ball we will look for a good player to mesh with this team  to help push us over the top -

I'd like to hear more about how the NBA let Sterling manifest his ideology.  Are you saying this mystery scouting report was part of a racist-themed, league-wide manifesto?  Is Ferry the patsy being set up to take the fall in furtherance of the league's hidden agendas?  Please tell us more ...

 

 

In all seriousness OldTime, I just think you're wrong here.  

no , but I think the NBA as a whole has been guilty of ignoring racially insenstive  behind closed doors behaviors.  Just as locker room humor or remarks would be frowned on in public, I beleive  there are other emails and meetings  where questionable  language has been used on a regular basis and the last thing the NBA wants in the wake of the Sterling incident  and Ferry is anything else to leak out - hell they did all they could to keep the Ferry  situation under warpas.

yeah thats why the Sterlings of the world have been allowed to manifest their ideology in the NBA for how many years ?? its still by virtue of the black out  name  protecting  the original author of the scouting report - why ??  Doesnt matter , as has been said Ferry will be the GM until a new owner decides his fate.  Im thinking we are going to see more of this type stuff popping up .

And that in itself is going to be an issue - the negative influence Gearon has had on the franchise may make serious buyers think twice about teaming up with such dysfunction UNLESS Gearon has been lying in wait with a buyers group ready to take control - which should be everyones worst nightmare.