NBASupes

The same amount Bosh and Lebron had before they came to Miami. If you care so much about players having titles, we need to look at signing Paul Pierce and KG then. Why not try to get Robert Horry out of retirement and sign Derek Fisher to replace Teague. If those players had titles, they would likely still be with their original team.

If our plans do not involve CP3 or Dwight we are not trying to win a title then. Our plans shouldn't be just for those guys but we need to have all our cards to the deck.

This is true. The reason why we hope it gets to 60 mil or more is we can offer Dwight and CP3 16-16.5 a piece 1st season and still be able to resign Korver for 3-4 mil 1st season. Just scrapping a mil from each player gives us a chance to resign Korver if the cap is at 60 mil. If it is at 58 mil, Korver could only resign for 2 mil 1st year which will not happen so they would have to take 15-15.5 1st year. They will get an extra million each if the cap goes up and we can resign Korver which is key. The ideal goal is to have a lineup of CP3/(draft)/Mack Jenkins/Lou Korver/FA/(draft) Horford/Scott Dwight/(1st round draft) Elite Floor General Very good off ball shooters Good Team defenders in all starters Elite Defensive anchor in Howard Elite movement player in Horford Elite half court offense fits Extremely high BBIQ. All very intelligent players in the starting lineup. Great front-court size, below average back-court size but if they play team very sound defense with Howard anchoring, they should be elite defensively. The Hawks should look at a shot blocker who relegates the paint in the 1st round for spot minutes. The ideal players for that are Dieng and Gobert. I like Dieng more because he also has very good BBIQ and passing skills. Gobert is a solid rebounder but his length and agility should make him a better defensive player in a role like ours than in most NBA initially speaking.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/227642/Hawks-To-Seek-Sign-And-Trade-Scenarios-For-Josh-Smith The Atlanta Hawks enter the offseason with Josh Smith's free agency amongst their most pressing issues. The Hawks will likely seek sign-and-trade packages involving Smith in order to receive assets in return. The Hawks also have cap space and are expected to pursue Dwight Howard. Smith will be an unrestricted free agent. Seems like Ferry is keeping all his options open which is a good thing. He seems to be looking at numerous options instead of just going for Howard and CP3 and that's it. Me personally, I don't see what we can really get for a SnT of Smith. Teams almost never trade key assets for FA SnT. Usually draft picks, misused players, and players making more that what they should make like Marvin Williams and Devin Harris. So I am not looking at this like it's a great added value but it shows Ferry is keeping all his cards open.

He had much better talent. Orlando was a better team. The thing was Collins was in shape. We used our perimeter defensive length and athletic ability to close out on shooters and forced Dwight to beat us by himself and while he got close we had enough talent to overcome. The biggest thing that season's Orlando team lack was a shot creator on the perimeter which was VC the year before who was traded. LD's adjustments helped us win games but Jason Collins being in shape was huge. Al was getting manhandled as force us to double as did Etan Thomas. Collins only redeeming quality is his low post defense and it came to help us as well. We had a lot of shot creators that year as well and match-ups we clearly won like Josh Smith v. Turk, Horford v. Bass, Jamal v. whoever and Joe Johnson v. whoever. We negated the fact that we couldn't finish much in the paint when Dwight was in the game. Also it helped Gortat wasn't there anymore. He would come in and would be like Asik was for Chicago. He wouldn't miss a beat to doing with Dwight would do on defense for Orlando. We couldn't match that. He ending up leaving Orlando. The dead of Orlando is similar to the dead of Los Angeles. It was all bad contracts and guys who could no longer perform near their level in the NBA.

That team wasn't expected to be a playoff team. They were young with no truly desirable players at that time. Wade really had flashed during the 2nd half of the year. Lamar was highly inconsistent. Caron was a decent player at the time he was what Tobias Harris is today and their other players wasn't good. Sometimes you have to watch how he coaches his teams. I personally think these Hawks have talent. I think Josh Smith and Al Horford are underrated, primarily Al Horford. One of the best NBA players. Atlanta expectations have always been underrated by pundits but Miami in Wade's first season was not a good team. That Hornets team had a legit All Star talent and some quality players around Baron Davis. Wade's improvement is a testament to SVG and Dwayne Wade. Not all talents develop that fast. Look at John Wall for example who had more talent coming out of college than Wade and he was younger.

SVG is generally a better coach. LD is a good coach but SVG was just better overall. Always had his teams playing sound Basketball. From Miami to Orlando. They all played sound Basketball especially defense. His overall coaching improved greatly in Orlando. I see him as a top 5 HC in the NBA. I liked Woodson too. I felt Woodson was a very good coach who lacked making adjustments which is key in the playoffs. LD isn't a motivator is more so better as an assistant than a HC. With that said, he has been one of the better coaching we have had in Atlanta and we have had quite a few. SVG strengths: Coaching defense, Keeping his team level headed on the court, motivating, making minor adjustments, rotations, understanding how to use his players to the max of the their ability to fit his system. Weaknesses: Playcalling, Panicking, Out of bound plays, changing up his system which got him in some trouble in Miami. He likes ball screens, pick and rolls, pick and pops, off the ball screens, Hi-low post plays, and he believe his players should be able to make entry passes to the bigs. He is really a guy who likes mixing inside out and giving the PG a chance to run the team and everyone following suit. Overall, SVG had a template like Woddy had a template. Drew was more like Eddie Jordan. He changes it up a lot. It's okay to make an adjustment but you have to give your guys a chance.

LD will interview for other jobs as well.

First year 18 for CP3 and 20-21 for Dwight but it's likely if they both want to sign, they will have to take 16-16.5 in their first year. I hope they take 15 mil so we can resign Korver first. Compared to Lebron and gang who took 14.5 mil each.

I do not understand why some would want to trade Horf. I feel there is some unusual split between the two on here for fans. Some love Horford and don't want Josh back all cost. Some do not want Horford but they can't say just get rid of him unless it includes players they covet coming to Atlanta. It is very wierd. Mark me on the side that doesn't want Smith back but that's mainly because I do not want the same team back again. At the same time, I do not see the need of Josh Smith with Dwight or/and CP3 either. Horford is a better fit with both players and he's cheaper.

How is Dwight inefficient? His efficiency has been generally off the charts. It is when you watch him play, especially v. defensive minded centers with size you notice his offensive flaws. As I mentioned earlier, way too many here are putting too much stock into Dwight's nightmare season in LA when it should be more of an outlier more than anything else. We do live in a what have you done for me lately world and sadly we also live in a world where people see the game from only one angle which is only on the ball instead of the overall part of the game. When Kobe bites up top on off the ball defense and the cutter cuts, leaving Dwight in an terrible situation, he can either foul or allow the big or cutter to score with just an average read from the passer. It a lot of things LA did defensively what was just awful, at times Dwight joined the fray defensively. Offensively, he was part of the circus. I have been a Hibbert fan for awhile. You seen some of the flashes but he's building chemistry with West and you really see Augustin and Hill being a good tandem for the Pacers since both can shoot and both can make sound entry passes.

No, I am not Ferry. lol my bad. Summer League, I should have specified that.

Two year deal. nothing guranteed. Ferry already said that Scott, Mack, and Jenkins will be in the Hawks SL.

Sorry, I am not buying that at. Gordon Heyward is better than anyone on the Hawks as far as backcourt players. That includes Teague, Lou, Korver, and Jenkins. Honestly, Mo Williams isn't much different than Teague as a PG. While both are different type of players, neither of them are good PG's. Overall wise Mo Williams was a below average NBA PG while Teague was an NBA average player. Neither was close to special. While Horford is better than anyone on Utah, his style of a movement specialist type. He doesn't fit the type that would fit with Horford. It wouldn't be a good match at all. Jefferson type needs to be next to a bigger anchor type who also is a good passer. Marc Gasol, Hibbert, Divac, etc. Horford would be a poor fit for Jefferson. Jefferson is a poor fit for Horford. Honestly, yes. I think Josh Smith is better than Al Jefferson. I have numerous statistical analytical measures to validate my points. The Lakers was a horrible team. Bad fits, bad injuries, lack of depth, poor coaching, complete circus. At this stage, most of them are just names.

I think it's a lock that Mike Scott will be a Hawk as well as Shevin Mack. Both are near min players and Scott was good for us last year. Mack has a contract for next year and Scott has an option.

It will not even get the Hawks close to the 2nd round. Maybe even miss the playoffs.

How can you believe otherwise? Everything analyical, video, and statistical says Al Jefferson is notorious awful defender who doesn't protect the rim, is awful at pick and roll defense, poor team defender, and is a solid man defender. What more can you believe? You just are using blind faith in hopes that a player achieves something you have no proof of otherwise. Unless you place him in a situation where he is allowed to play with an inside-outside team, he will not work. The Utah Jazz system right now is inside-out but it doesn't work because they lack a Paul Gasol, Roy Hibbert, or Vlade Divac type of player. Jefferson hasn't proven he's a very good offensive player even once in his career and he hasn't proven he is more than an awful defender. The Wolves traded him for space without intention of using it. Utah is about to let him walk and you have faith in him here where our PF is a PF and we want to sign a PF in hopes that he will be a good center because we have shooters who can't create their own offense like Jenkins and Korver. What part of the game is this?

You really don't get it do you. Jefferson best pairing is a big center with size who can protect the rim and anchor the defense. Something Al Horford has no type of ability to do. You would be misusing Jefferson and putting him in a bad situation as well as Horford. Rather have Horford with Smith again instead of Jefferson and I don't want Smith back at all. You are trying to add Jefferson strengths without accounting for his weakeness which we have no type of ability to overcome it here. I understand what you want but when you take Josh away, you take away a major part of our game and you lose it for good. So we really do not net gain with Jefferson compared to Smith.

Eminem song called stan is basically about a diehard supporter going to great lengths to support his favorite artist. In the hip hop community, instead on calling a diehard supporter a homer or a fanboy, we call him a stan.

They had better players in 09-10. VC ate us alive. They were regressing fast and had numerous bad contracts on board. They were basically the Lakers with a better fit for Dwight and less overall talent.

The Lakers turned a lot of people off of Howard. Which was the point I was making in the post above which was deleted when I transfered it over to this message board. They completely mishandled him. On defense, Dwight is not a great man defender, he is an elite help side defense who plays smart elite team defense. In LA, they had Steve Nash and Steve Blake playing matador defense. Horrible on ball defenders. Nash is also an awful team defender as well. You had Kobe gambling like a madman and constantly being a step slower than he used to be playing some pretty bad defense. You had MWP who is clearly a shell of his old self playing some awful team defense even if his man defense is decent even at this stage of his career. Gasol was one of the worst defenders in the NBA. Horrible team defender. Horrible pick and roll defender. Horrible help side defender. He was good at man defense but that's about it. Basically, the Lakers placed Howard on an island to defend. On offense, they turned Steve Nash into an spot up shooter who didn't have much off ball movement and Dwight into a garbageman. He basically became rookie AL Horford with more size and rebounding ability. As far as his hands, they have always been questionable even in Orlando but LA gave Dwight some awful entry passes. They couldn't spread the court and for the most part couldn't beat you off the dribble putting Dwight in bad situations when posting up. Look at Orlando. They could spread the court and they played well off the ball. It made it much easier. In LA, everyone stands around, no one outside of Nash is much of a threat to shoot and even then teams don't have to worry about Dwight's touches since LA isn't going to pass it to the post much, especially with Kobe in the lineup. It was just a terrible fit for Dwight. You do not need 4 shooters and Dwight to win games. You just need good players who can play great half court offense. You need a floor general, a couple shooters, a good team defender who can shoot like a Brandon Bass and Dwight. You can win it all with that. Now you add an elite floor general like CP3 and an elite system PF in Horford with shooters and Dwight and you have a team who can dominate. You are completely devaluing Dwight because of LA and saying that he wasn't that good because the system in Orlando wasn't winning titles. It wasn't the system that didn't win in Orlando, it was his supporting cast around him. They just were not good enough outside of Dwight. LA was a mess, bad fits, old, and they have egos and refuse to play sound team defense.

We can't keep Smoove if we sign Dwight and CP3. Why would you want Dwight on the same team with Smith? They really do not fit each other game and both are horrible FT shooters. They also cancel each other out on defense if Josh is at PF. Josh needs a new start, I wish him well for whatever team he signs with.

Never seen SVG as a top 3 coach but I did see him as one of the best coaches with an elite defensive scheme and someone who held all his players accountable. He was head strong too much at times and didn't always coach a smart game. Generally speaking, he's no Pop but at the same time, he could do things coaching that Pop couldn't do. He could always develop players, run the right system for his stars, and his teams played consistent Basketball and were always very focused including Dwight. I see him more as a more opinionated Mike Smith who coaches the Atlanta Falcons in Football. He might not be the best but you will get consistent production from his teams and they will play sound smart defense.

You are still getting more value if Dwight is 25 mil and Jefferson is 7 mil. One is a decent PF/C tweener who has great low post skills but offers little else outside of that and the other is an elite defensive player who can give you 18-25 PPG and elite rebounding. There is no comparison. One player is elite and the other is an engima.

Agreed. Jenkins can be a decent player for us with or without big like Dwight but with Dwight he can become a consistent good player for us.