RandomFan

50 minutes ago, sturt said:

Well of course, you need an offense-specialist assistant coach when the stats so vividly support that you need to improve your offense, given all those bottom-20%-of-the-league numbers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wait. Wha?

Top 20%???

You sure about that???

How'd that work out in the playoffs? 

Rhetorical question. We know the answer. 

I would still bring back Solo.

4 hours ago, thecampster said:

Part 2 - the last 3 slots.  With the trade of Landale and subbing out Clint's bonuses, we are now at 12 salaries, $148,627,855.

This gives us access to the MLE but if we use more than $6,479,000 of the MLE, we become hard capped if we surpass the apron (which we would).  So here is what is available to us now.

1. $6.479 mil MLE.

2. 2 trade exceptions. 1 expires 7/7 for $1.78 million.  1 expires 1/13 for $1.67 million.

3. Vet minimum contracts.

 

So why will it take time to fill out the last 3 roster slots?  The MLE can be offered up to 4 years with annual raises.  So negotiating the 1 right vet to take that salary at their preferred number of years is the key. The order those salaries are processed will matter for which rules kick in.  So we're waiting on a few things.  

1. If a trade involving Clint or JC takes place and the resulting salary impact (salary dump would give us the full MLE of $10.49 million to spend).

2. Summer league to see if a non-rostered player shows out.

3. A quality vet to be willing to accept an MLE deal to play here (someone like Robin Lopez).

Didn't we just get close to a $4m trade exception from the Huerter trade?

3 hours ago, sturt said:

Yes, I think so at least. Pretty much. Not a lot of difference. Last five years' numbers for each through age 28 (Harkless' current age)...

 

Solo signing was always more about the enforcer role, communication on D on a young team, and the locker room presence of massaging egos to keep the peace.

I don't know that Harkless isn't also that, but it has nothing to do with statistical numbers.

5 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Frankly to unlock John we would need to trade Capela for Myles Turner. Turner can  hit threes and block shots. On offense he doesn't need to be in the PNR and Collins could go back to feasting on it.

Agreed. Or Ayton. 

1 hour ago, GameTime said:

Stein/Pincus just said on Spotify Live that John Collins could be a part of a Durant blockbuster trade.  Said that all of the NBA is waiting on KD at this point.

Reminds me, but I ran across this comment from another poster about JC on reddit that pretty much sums up how I feel about his whole roster fit situation. 

I think the reason John doesn’t have a lot of trade value is because his skill set and position don’t match. If he was bigger and you could play him at the five he’d be one of the most valuable non star players in the league. His main strength in the pnr is severely handicapped while playing with most centers in the league.

To use John to the best of his ability you’d need to have a very specific type of center next to him. Someone who provides great interior defense and rim protection, while being able to stretch the floor and is cool with not being the primary big in pnr scenarios. Bonus points if they can switch on to perimeter players because John can’t.

There aren’t a lot of guys like this in the league. It’s really hard to find a good front court pairing with him. I think teams recognize this and that’s why they’re not offering us the best return on him. They’re not interested in paying for how good he really is when how useful he is on the court is what really matters.

He just doesn’t fit what the prototypical 4 man is now. A good interior defender that can switch out on the perimeter and make an open three. John can make an open three and get some weak side blocks as a help defender but he’s not quick enough to cut off driving lanes. He’s also not quick enough to guard anyone on the perimeter. He often gets lost on his defensive rotations (the entire team does really). He’s not big enough to bang with the traditional bigs either. He’s kinda in no mans land defensively while playing a position where that should be the priority.

John’s still a really good player though despite all of his short comings and in the right situation you’d definitely see him shine. The problem is it’s hard to create that ideal situation and even if you did I’m not sure it’d be worth it. Because you’d definitely be better off building your team around a flawed star than a flawed role player.

35 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

I didn’t know where to put this but I figured the Trae thread cuz it’s… well Trae stuff.

Whatchall think of my doll? FIGURINE!!!!  … and uhhh socks  

31 minutes ago, Jody23 said:

Also, Gallo's ability to score in the post consistently was also a big part of the offense.  That's going to be a big loss because none of the bigs on the roster have that ability.

A big reason for that was due to not having another ball handler capable of running the 1-5 PnR when Trae was on the bench. That won't be the case any more with Murray around. 

3 minutes ago, DawnOfThemBirds said:

 

I think there was some talk a few years ago that Simmons grew like an inch or 2 after being drafted.

Maybe. Probably. But that doesn't change anything regarding how Simmons still doesn't possess the skills needed to be a great defensive center. 

And as I keep pointing out, I'm probably the guy that wants us to trade for him the most out of anyone on this forum. I made a trade proposal for him months ago. He's just not best used as a center. 

45 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

So let's play a game. 

 

Would the 6-11 . . . 240 lb Ben Simmons be outclassed at Center vs these players?

• Robert Williams:  6-8 . . 237 lbs
• Al Horford:  6-9  . . . 240 lbs
• Draymond Green: 6-6 . .  230 lbs
• Kevon Looney:  6-9 . . . 222 lbs

If so . . . how and why?

As has already been covered, but Simmons is 6'9", not 6'11". Even if he's really 6'10, he's still not built like a center in body type. He does still have a positive wingspan of 7'0", but he's just not built like a center. Plus, Simmons may be a Defensive Player of the Year candidate but he’s done that by his menacing perimeter defense, not his interior defense. 

Defensively his strength is guarding perimeter players. He's great fighting through screens, guarding ball handlers on-ball, wings off-ball, mobile bigs that are perimeter oriented. Guarding the interior is a different skillset. 

He lacks the strength the bang with centers full-time. But more importantly he's not a great help defender or rim protector, the two primary requirements of playing the 5 in most schemes.

Let's compare this to OO who is similar sized, although built differently. Okongwu's strengths are help defense, and rim protection, but what makes him an elite interior defender is also having the ability to step out on the perimeter and do a good job there too. But you wouldn't want to make OO a full-time perimeter defender, it's not his strength and you would be wasting what he is good at. 

It's the opposite with Simmons. He's an elite perimeter defender, possibly the best in the world, that can also play some good interior defense. But you don't want him on the interior full-time because it's not his strength and you would be wasting what he is exceptional at. 

A 6'9" perimeter defender that can guard on-ball and off-ball is a unicorn. A 6'9" guy that isn't a great rim protector or help defender is a dime a dozen in the NBA. THAT is why he isn't a center. It's not that he is completely incapable of doing it; it's that your taking him away from a position of greatness and moving him to a position of mediocrity. 

Look, we are both in favor of wanting Simmons. He's just not a center and we shouldn't try to make him one. 

20 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

I get it.  People just are leery taking a risk on him, seeing how he melted down in the playoffs against us, and how he basically sat out an entire season due to whatever anxiety he was experiencing.

But as you said, the only thing this guy isn't elite at, is shooting the basketball.  The defensive activity that he and Murray could produce alone, would almost be worth the price of admission.  

Capela is great at what he does at center.  But his impact is limited to rim protection and rebounding.  We've seen Capela struggle guarding some of the better centers in the league, while Okongwu has fared much better.  It'll be interesting to see how a 6-11 more athletic and quicker Simmons, would guard a guy like Embiid.  And when Ben gets a defensive rebound, that's almost an automatic 5 on 4 . . 4 on 3 fast break.

Simmons also gives us the ability to switch more on defense ( if Collins is kept ).  Simmons defensive upside is far greater than Capela's, despite Capela having a good impact on our defense.

To me, Fields has to find a way to keep Collins in the mix, to keep the 3 point shooting threat on the frontline.  As many bunnies as we saw Capela blow last year, that all goes away if Simmons gets the ball in those same spots.

BEN SIMMONS IS NOT A CENTER!!!

Full stop.

10 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I think most would agree he is talented. What he is not a full time Center, there's a commitment and mindset that comes with it. Most importantly what's going on between his ears and his back surgery as a Center - good luck.

Agreed. Which is why I posted this 10 hours ago saying he's not a center. His best position would be a point-forward: at least with our roster.

9 hours ago, RandomFan said:

I'm one of the biggest Simmons fans here and hope we trade for him, but he isn't a center. He can play small ball center, but he doesn't have the wingspan, length, and strength to be a regular rim protecting 5 full time. And he can't really technically be what is considered a small ball 5 either since he has no outside shot to draw the opposing center to the 3 pt line. 

But he can defend 1-4 exceptionally well; perhaps better than anyone else in the NBA. His best position is as a point-forward.  

Okongwu would be our center. 

44 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Simmons makes $37 million, who else are you sending out with Collins ($25.6) to make up the difference $11 million difference? We can't include J. Holiday or Harkless since they can't be aggregated. 

 

It would be JC plus either of Capela or Bogi for Simmons and cap filler. I'm good with either player going out. We've long needed to consolidate talent on this roster, and that's what this is. 

Not directed at you bird, but in reading the board today people seem to forget how good Simmons is. True he's not baggage free, but even considering that he's STILL a top 20-30 player. 

Ben is a DPOY quality defender who is as equally adept at on-ball and off-ball D, plus switching. Elite handles, passing, screen setting, rolling to the rim and finishing there. And still only 26 years old. Same age as Murray, two years older than Trae. 

He's elite at everything, except sucking at jumpshooting. But the shooting is why he's only top 20-30 instead of being a top 5 player.

Trae wants Simmons here. Do we think we know better than Trae what a good player looks like? Do we think we know better than Trae about the roster fit or lineup fit with Ben?

C'mon man!

2 minutes ago, MarylandHawk said:

I can see a three team scenario where John, Clint and picks go out, Ayton and Simmons come back, KD goes to Phoenix along with Clint and Donovan Mitchel and John Collins ends up in Brooklyn with picks. 

Sending out JC and Capela isn't enough outgoing salary to take back Simmons and Ayton. 

16 minutes ago, Sothron said:

Ok, you ask for information, I give you information and you call it BS. Please ignore my posts going forwards.

It's beyond my understanding how people still willfully engage that poster as anything other than bad-faith. Especially after the years of evidence in support of that conclusion. 

The ignore function doesn't work if people keep quoting him. Help me out here folks! 

33 minutes ago, akay said:

Is the offense gonna remain the same with Murray at the 2 instead of a good shooter? 

The strengths of the roster are already different than last year with Kev/Gallo(jc prolly), and Murray/Holidays /Harkless in.

Don't think you can just assume we'll be playing the same type of ball with pretty different personnel.

It feels like we're giving up shooting for better defense and toughness 

Feel like I've posted this about 10 times already, so sorry for those that are seeing it again. 

"offense comes from the exceptional creation at guard, big men that can finish, wings that support"

11 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

Nah, he did say Kev had more trade value, but that we wanted to keep him in a Hawks uniform because of his team friendly contract.

There were no indications given that we WANTED to move him. Only that other teams wanted him.

That subtle difference plays in to people’s disappointment when the return doesn’t seem to match what we thought his value was based on their reports. Similar to the Cam trade. When you tell us for months that we like certain players too much to ever give them away for nothing, then they get traded for expirings, I think the confusion is understandable. 

And I don’t mind the Kev deal, just pointing out my observations.

I'd like to point out the primary return is the 1st round pick, not the expiring contracts. Although redistributing our contract allocation was obviously a perk of the trade.