rd79

7 hours ago, Diesel said:

Educate us Kurupt... Tell us how terrible the German Leagues are and thus provide an excuse for Dennis Now... I mean.. that is what you're saying right??  You're saying that the German League are inferior and that having only 3 Germans to ever play in the NBA is proof of that ....That's what you're saying right??

 

Actually there are even 5 of them under contract for next season...

Back to topic: How many of that mentioned top 10 PGs are younger than Dennis? Why shouldn't he improve? I don't get it... But of course this next season may show the direction his career will move on, because

• It's the first season he's the man (something not many expected him to ever become at all for any NBA team after his rookie season)
• He is used to play starter minutes and starter opponents now, so no excuses being a 1st year starter any more. His defense has to improve
• Can he become an off court leader too (without Sap and even Howard around)?
   

On 22.7.2017 at 6:54 AM, RedDawg#8 said:

Dennis is a fiery competitive person. I'd rather have his passion than stoic Teague and Joe Johnson and every other boring, satisfied with being average player that we invest in to lead us to glory.

Energy is everything. Dennis is the first guy up off the bench to cheer on his teammates, and he doesn't back down from anyone on the other team. And he doesn't need throw guy under the bus or make it all about him. Dude plays with an edge and confidence. He only cares about winning. If you don't like that then sports may not be for you. 

And that's what could become a problem when I watch at the current roster. His new contract also includes $2M per year on incentives - one criteria was rumored to be reaching the finals. Will he accept the challenge and step up or will he be pissed about the tank and his now unreachable incentives? He isn't posting as much in the social media he was used to do - since Sap and THJ left...

Now everybody is leaving the sinking ship...

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

Yeah.. but that's wrongheaded.

Let's imagine there's no Bazemore and no Bazemore contract.  Do you match on the basis of THJrs Ability and Possibilities?  If the answer is yes, then we should match.   Here's the what if.  What if THJr has his coming out party and he becomes a 24/4/3 type player who shoot a very good percentage?  Would you feel justified in saying... we couldn't resign him because of Baze's salary?  That's the way that Losers think.  Losers think about things in a non-basketball way.  I'm saying consider THJr free of all these other distractions.  Do you think he has the potential to be a player that is as good or better than that contract?  If you do.. resign him and when he gets there, if you're still that much concerned with the cap, trade him.  Or find a way to trade Baze... but don't let good talent go out the door because you think like a loser. 

 

Is it that hard to understand someone else's point of view? I don't ask you to share my opinion... But it seems not following the wisdom of the great Diesel makes me a looser, not able to think in a basketball way...
But yeah it seems I'm an idiot because once in a while I have the stupid idea one could have a good conversation about bb with you. And every time you show me that's not possible - at least without sharing your opinion...

I won't wast my time anymore in this discussion... And hopefully I remember that next time I have the intention to answer one of your posts... 

55 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I think this is part of the problem here.  We're all looking at the decision with Baze in mind.  IMO, the only thing that should matter to us is THJr's Potential.   If you believe he has the potential to live up to the contract, then you match.  IF you don't, then you don't.   Baze or our cap should have Nothing to do with it.

For emphasis, let me bring up the past...

Now.. I'm not saying that THJr is Steph Curry but GS took a chance on Curry when he was injured and looked nothing like an allstar and it paid off.  I'm sure that there were some salary cap implications that fans didn't like...

 

I disagree here. Sometimes you may be willing to pay a player more than you think he's worth on the field - for a lot of reasons. Because he sells you merch, to keep a working group together, because you need one of his strenght desperately, because you just have money to spend or like the Knicks did in this case to distract the former team from matching. 
So if we had more money to spend and not tied that much dollars on Baze (and/or Plumlee) one could think about matching, to keep at least a core of young players already familiar with each other, the coach and the system together and build around them

Just now, rd79 said:

Was the poll already in there when I asked? I saw it later and voted...

But actually this is the original topic here 

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

Well, I wanted to keep a poll open for the topic I opened...   I had put a poll in  and thought it would be interesting to see how many people agreed or disagreed.

Was the poll already in there when I asked? I saw it later and voted...

32 minutes ago, bleachkit said:

The Baze signing was the worst. I said at the time it was bad idea, no one listened to me. I was summarily dismissed, "that's the market" blah, blah. 70 million is the going rate for a limited, back small forward? 

But back then there have been at least other suitors who offered Baze more than we did. 
This time it seems there was nobody the Knicks had to overbid at this price tag. They just overpaid on purpose to distract the Hawks from matching...

@Diesel why do you open a topic for every thought you have? Why not just answer the topic we already have about the THJ offer sheet? No offense, I'm just curious about that... 

Just now, wolvetigers said:

LOL...what did THJ do to you...is that any worse than Bazemore's deal? WAKE UP!

Yeah Kent's deal is awful too, but there is no reason to have two overpaid borderline starters as wings...

On 3.7.2017 at 7:06 PM, thecampster said:

They have over 60 million guaranteed and 30 million in player options. They simply don't have the money under the cap to match "anything" for Noel. Doing so means Dirk takes a huge paycut and they freeze out their cap in the future.

Dirk signed for 2 yaers at $5M per...

Now after THJ left (if our GM matches he should be fired) let Crawford play THJ's role of a 6th man.
If he still doesn't want to play tell him he should do well so a contender might want him at the trade deadline - if he stays longer he is an asset to a team in need of clearing some cap-space (and it seems there will be a lot of such teams...)

And additionally both started together for Team World in the 2015 Rising Stars Game

Dennis already has great chemistry with him, the both played togeter at the bakersfield jam (for one or two games) back in Dennis 1st season... 

EDIT: both on the Jam from Dec 14 to Dec 16, 2013:

AND HE IS UNDER CONTRACT FOR FOUR MORE YEARS!!! (21M, 23M, 24M, 25M) 


It would be a dream to get him, but I think Utah sees in him to core to build around...

35 minutes ago, Peoriabird said:

Wasn't Gobert the 27th pick in his draft? Why would you give up 4 picks for someone picked at the end of the 1st round? You don't think that is an over payment.  I mean Chris Paul was obtained with a late round pick and bench players. Why do Hawk fans always want to over pay for players?

It doesn't matter which pick somebody was drafted. It does matter how good he is and how good he can become. 
Gobert was #1 in Blocks last year, #2 in MIP selection, #2 in DPOY selection, on All-NBA 2nd team and on NBA All-Defensive-First team...

Wow, he was the ROY of Dennis' draft... Compare their salaries now...

29 minutes ago, DBac said:

If Embiid stays reasonably healthy (>60 games), they're a 40 win team at least IMO.

Especially with everyboy going west...

9 minutes ago, StephenHawking said:

Please please Diesel don't tell european people about fandom. I can tolerate all your opinions and moreover appreciate them in discussions but please don't tell us what kind of fans american people are and of what kind we are.

You probably never been to germany. I've been to the US on multiple occasions and went to a couple of football and basketball games there. Let me tell you it's not even comparable with european sports fans. 

To you guys it's more of entertainment and watching a game if they play good. If they play bad you rather use your time for other things and turn off the tv. 

The soccer team from my hometown had to go down a league a year ago and played awful but guess what the spectator cut didn't change. Still 50000 people attend every game and tear their heart out for the club.

Nonono, AVG was only 49,499  

57 minutes ago, Diesel said:

This is the difference between us.  You are a fan of one player.  I am a fan of the team.  And you're right... I have expectations of EVERY PLAYER because I want to seem them Help THE TEAM win.  And so yes... I am critical of Players at time and I am just as critical of the Front Office at times.  Also, I applaud Players at times and I applaud the front office at times.   That's what happens when you are fans of THE TEAM.  

At 1st, I want to see Dennis on a winning team and I would love to see him winning a ship. And since I saw nearly every Hawks game in four years - including preseason and even summer league to a certain extend - I started to really care about the Hawks too. When Dennis entered the league I only wanted to see him win and thought it might have been better for him to play on a worse team to get more playing time. But now I know that in ATL he got the exact environment he needed to improve. The right mixture of competition, trainer strict when he had to be, the need to earn his minutes on a winnig team. I think if he would have started in a environment like Sacramento it's possible he weren't even in the league right now. That's why I want him to improve, lead this team and pay back the faith they had in him - lead them to the title.

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It's like this...  IF Dennis is traded, we will probably never see you again on Hawksquawk.  But us fans of the Hawks will still be here....and we will still be supporting the Team.

Possible, but not probable, I think Hawks would still be my 2nd choise, even in front of the MAVs which are the first Team I was really interested in (for obvious reasons) but I never followed them they way I do follow the Hawks. 

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Sometimes people on this board get it so confused.  They think that we should be fans of Bad Picks because we picked them.  They think that because we're critical of what the coach or the front office did with one player that we were fans of that one player... NO NO...  When you make a trade like the trade we made with DHoward or Joe Johnson... or when you let a guy like Smith or Teague walk and get nothing in return... then that speaks to why we have to be critical of the Front Office.  IF we were like You rd79.. and fans of those players only... we would have been gone.... and no we are not NEGATIVE.. we want to see our TEAM put  up their best...

Being critical is an essential part of being a fan, critize everybody for actuall mistakes but it often looks like you're really overcritical. I can't remember you cheering about something. To me it seems you and some others are always negative and not able to enjoy the good things. Maybe you just don't write here when you are happy and like something - but for me it looks like some here are nearly always negativ, which would be something I could understand if this were the Sacramento board...

We make the playoffs and some react like. "Eh we don't have a chance I rather lose out completely than losing in the 1st or 2nd round." And that is the complete opposite of "we want to see our TEAM put  up their best..." And every talk about tanking is also not about putting up the best possible results...

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and we would love to see our team win a Ship.   Oh yeah.. that's the other thing.. I don't know how it is in Germany.. if that's yall's thing.. but us Americans are COMPETITIVE.  That's why every year, we want the Hawks to win a Ship... even if we know it's not possible.

Americans are the only ones which love winning that much that they are willing to see their teams lose for years to make winning possible - not even probable. And you also are the only ones who have a system where that might work. We love to see our teams win and we desperatly want to see them win. Because if you lose over here you aren't awarded with the best young players, You drop out of the league and the teams existence is put on the line. My favorite soccer team plays in the 3rd division now and is working hard every year to find some money to avoid total elimination. So don't tell me something about being competetive.

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As far as Dennis is concerned.  You say that he shows a lot of effort.  I agree.  However, where is his effort focused... is it focused on making the TEAM better or getting His?  I think when you examine that question, you see the difference between where I stand and where you stand.  You defend him because he puts up good stats.  I criticize him because he put up good stats to the detriment of the TEAM.

Everytime I seem him diving on the floor or out of bounds, not caring about pain, I know he fights for the team. Such actions aren't even visible in the box score. I would like to see him play (as a starter) with some players able to hit the basket before I finally judge his passing abilities and his will to let others score.... I'd bet his stats would look different on a team like the 2015 Hawks, who were able to spread the floor and hit jumpers... 

22 hours ago, Diesel said:

Here's your problem... You don't understand that where he was picked is irrelevant now.  We have made him the only PG on the team, we have paid him well,  and we are now seemingly getting rid of talented players because they don't fit with him.  So  what kind of wonders we expect... we expect him to be a TEAM player.  When you watch GS, you see a gang of TEAM players and that's the secret sauce to their winning.  Maybe Dennis can mature...  However, maturity off the court and maturity on the court are two different things.  It's rare to see a non-PG become a PG in the NBA.  All I'm saying is that for all of the people like yourself who constantly defend Dennis...

 

Actually, and I mentioned it a zillion times before, Dennis wasn't paid big yet. Hawks will start to do this coming season.

And 2nd, we are defending Dennis because wie are fans of him, and that may be the big difference. For me it looks like some people here act more like consumers than fans. You pay to see the Hawks and spend your time following them and that's why you think they owe you something, some even seem to think they owe you a ship... The only thing I expect from professional athletes is that they do their best to win. And that by the way is why I hate the concept of tanking.

And no one here can deny that Dennis wants to win and shows a lot of effort. As long as he does this I'm fine, but of course I can see flaws in his game and hope he keeps improving.

And when Dwight played without effort because whatever bugged him, he didn't do what I expect from athletes and that's why I'm also fine with him being traded...

Mavs +2

Cavs -2