atlhawks1

REBUILD Phillips Arena......thats the ONLY part i didnt like..........lmao. Move the location of arena to a new area, dont rebuild PHILLIPS, make a new arena.

So Here is my redo following the rules.   (at least 3 years, starting in 1970)

 

Centers: 

1.  Deke

2.  Z Beaty

3.  W. Bellamy

4.  A. Horford

5.  M. Malone

 

Power Forwards

1.  Kevin Willis

2.  Dan Roundfield

3.  Josh Smith

4.  Shareef Abdur Rahim.

5.  Christian Laettner

 

Small Forwards

1.  Dominique

2.  John Drew

3.  Josh Childress

4.  Craig Ehlo

5.  Ty Corbin

 

Shooting Guard

1.  Lou Hudson

2.  Joe Johnson

3. Steve Smith

4.  Kyle Korver

5.  Jason Terry

 

Point Guard

1.  Mookie Blaylock

2.  Pete Maravich

3.  Doc Rivers

4.  Jeff Teague

5.  Mike Bibby

 

Coaches

1.  Bud

2.  Lenny  Wilkens

3.  Mike Fratello

4.  Larry Drew

5.  Hubey Brown

 

Discussions:

Ty Corbin vs. Marvin Williams vs. Cliff Levingston?

Lenny Wilkens vs. Mike Fratello?

Mookie vs. Pistol Pete?

Josh Smith vs. Rahim vs. Laettner vs. Steve Hawes?

Mike Bibby vs. Jason Terry?

 

Honorable mentions:  Spudd Webb, Charlie Criss, Mike Bibby, Tyron Lue, Dwight Jones, Ken Norman, and Alan Henderson.

 

Do we let our hate keep Josh Smith and Joe Johnson from going higher on the list?

 

Is tree Rollins a top 5 Center despite what the stats Say?

Good list. my responses: Yes, tree should be top 5. He affected MORE shots than anybody ive ever seen at center because he played at a time when they let them PLAY in the paint. Roundfield, without a doubt, is the best power forward the Atlanta Hawks have ever had. He had a complete game and dominated the defensive end in a way Willis never did. He won defensive player of the year for the Hawks. As much as i disliked his game, Josh Smith has to be top 5, if for his defense only. Shooting guard is about right. I forgot about Bibby, good scoop there. You got some good Honorable mentions also.

Hawks got the best chemistry in the league. The Red and Yellow all day lmao........

New thing...  Coach ranks...

 

1.  Bud

2.  Lenny

3.  Fratello

4.  H. Brown

5.  L. Drew

EEEEHHH, based on POTENTIAL, Bud has gotten it. I know, Eastern Conference finals carries a LOT of weight, but, if you going on TENURE and knowledge, i would rank it as below. Dont get me wrong, Bud will come out on top, but i cant do it after just two seasons. Fratello has more wins than Hubie, but Hubie is the man........Heck, Fratello coached UNDER Hubie..In fact, to me, Hubie MIGHT be the best coach ever. He can take a bunch of scrubs and MAKE them play elite basketball.......Bud is in the vicinity, just give him more years to prove it...

1. Brown

2. Fratello

3. Wilkins

4. Bud

5. Drew

lets make thatba rule... Atlanta Hawks only....  i'll relist.

 

also 3yr guys

or should it be 2?

I say 3 years. Lots of guys gave the Hawks 1 or 2 good years. 

You rate Terry and Korver over Steve Smith?

lol, cant remember everybody.................you right, smitty above both of them........

all time Hawks. I dont count ANYBODY that played the majority of their time before 1970. It is what it is:

center:

1. mutumbo

2. rollins

3. malone

4. horford

5. koncak

power forward:

1. roundfield

2. willis

3. rahim

4. sap

5. henderson

small forward:

1. wilkins

2. drew

3. harrington

4. smith

5. augmon

shooting guard:

1. Hudson

2. j johnson

3. terry

4. korver

5. wittman

point guard:

1a. mavarich

1b. mookie

2. rivers

3. teague

4. matthews

I can agree with EVERYTHING you said. Chemistry 'can' trump talent but it takes A LOT of chemistry to trump talent. It is rare as well. See Detroit vs Lakers and that is the only time that chemistry has truly trumped talent. Well, also maybe Spurs vs Heat because Miami clearly had better talent but didn't have the chemistry and pedigree of the Spurs.

 

Also, counting old school players and comparing their game is a bit asinine. However, from late 70s on up should be fair game. And we would still lose by a long shot. Even with Shaq and Kareem, look at the twin towers. Kareem didn't have a jumpshot, he had a LETHAL, DEADLY, UNSTOPPABLE, jump hook.

 

All in all, we don't stand a snowballs chance in Hades.

Appreciate the comments. Ok, if you look at Mutumbo and Roundfield, two of the GREATEST alltime defenders in NBA history, the Hawks WOULD stand a chance. Dominique was under ranked as a defender because thats not was MIke Fratello wanted him to concentrate on. Nique and Roundfield played together are were a awesome defensive front court. Most people dont know that. I think the Hawks could hang with them.

1979-1980 defensive player of the year, Dan Roundfield:

I think it's in the best location already.   The civic center would be very convenient for me but there's not really a close enough marta stop.  i guess the wrongly named civic center stop is close enough to walk but ideally you want to put people out right at the gates.

I disagree. I have NEVER liked the location of the Georgia Dome OR the Omni or Phillips Arena. Has NOTHING to do with " bad people" downtown. ( code word for the ghettos). Has everything to do with the fact that its just too cramped and not conducive to tailgating like it should. The traffic is another issue.

The PRIME spot for football, basketball, baseball, etc. was the old General Motors plant. Too late for that now. The Civic Center is a good location. There is prime territory all up and down Georgia 400. I WISH Atlantic Station had room. Bottom line, anywhere but where Phillips is currently located.

This is nice and all, but NONE of them is Top 5 at their position. The Lakers ENTIRE squad is Top 3 at their position aside from Elgin, who in his own right, is underrated. There is still no comparison. The talent level is not equal.

First, this is my all time Hawks list. Second, the best TALENT, isnt always the arbritator of who wins. Its how they PLAY TOGETHER.

How Shaq and Kareem BOTH gonna play in the starting five? NEITHER has a jump shot. lmao  Baylor. Look, i dont count ANYBODY who played back in Baylor's days. The best talent WASNT in the NBA. Thats why i left Petit off my all time Hawks team. I know that will be met with lots of criticizism, but it is what it is.......

Has there been any of the new 2015 posters who have been positive posters? It's okay to disagree but damn, I feel like all the newer posters have been raging all season. I've been lurking.  Tipsy question. 

You are correct. I HAVE been ragging. Let me put it in perspective though. Ive been ragging because i know the Hawks could have done BETTER this season. The championship was there to take if they had benched Pero and gotten a rebounding big at the trade deadline. So, its not ragging them because i think every move they make is bad, its the NOT making a move to counter the big lineups that teams threw at Horford/Sap.

You could see the playoff meltdown coming before the trade deadline because of the Hawks weakness on the boards. The team ALWAYS was about the jumpshot. If they fall, the Hawks would win. If they didnt, combined with the lackluster rebounding,  they would lose. It shouldve been addressed before the trade deadline, but Bud sat pat and got burnt against Cleveland in the playoffs.

Well let's back up for a minute....before Scott's injury yes he could very well have been considered our best bench player but after the injury when bud played Scott, Scott didn't perform well once he came back. His shot was off after missing a month of basketball due to a broken toe and we were getting ready to enter the playoffs.

So you have player who you know can shoot the ball but after breaking his toe we all could obviously see that he was off his game and never recovered for the rest of the season due to that injury. Bud had very good reasons not to play him after the toe injury

From my own personal opinion of Scott is that he's one of those players that don't do well after a critical injury. That Damn big toe threw the mans whole game off. We lost value in Scott at end of the season but he will be healthy and back to normal next year

I thought he was 100 percent in the playoffs. My bad. Good post.

For some reason, Mike Scott went from the best Hawks bench player, to no playing time in the playoffs. For all the good Bud has done, he has done NOTHING with the front court that inspires my confidence in him. From shipping Payne out, to not playing Moose enough, to benching Scott, letting Pero even suit up, lol, much less getting max playing time, and not playing Brand...........

I don't know about that being a gimp and not adding anything to the team. I bet the same was said when JR Smith and Schumpert were going to the Cavs no one though much of it and they burned our #$#$ ss. They didn't do alot vs Golden State but they still helped them get there to the finals. Let see the Hawks did add Splitter but other than him who as championship experience on the Hawks? Vet players can help the unexperienced players simmer down during the pressure of the playoffs.

BINGO. While the cavaliers are stacking their chips, the Hawks are in stop gap mode. IM STILL trying to figure out how Cleveland has all this money to spend, and the Hawks dont...........cap or no cap, Cleveland is STACKING CHIPS and might run away with the East this coming season......

AND THATS NOT INCLUDING VAREJAO who is coming back........

well I look at it like this.  ESPN has told we aren't serious contenders for years.  They have been right.  They said GSW would win it all easy.  Right.  Said Lebron would win the east easy.  Yep.  They just might know a little something.   They got our regular season wrong so who knows.  But, this isn't just a random opinion from a fan being reported here.

ESPN could be wrong. I think it can go either way. I wouldnt be surprised if the Hawks have another successful season, and i wouldnt be surprised if they fell back a little. How Splitter and Hardaway turn out are the unknowns that the Hawks will count a lot on. I wouldve gave the Hawks a B personally for this off season, and thats based on my confidence in Bud's system, but i understand why ESPN gave them what they did. It can go either way.

We got a new ownership group with deep pockets, rid ourselves of historically bad, incompetent owners, and put someone in clear charge of the operation of the team.   How much better can we really expect from an off season?  

Next off season will really tell the tell about new ownership. Even though i didnt like this off season, they get a pass because of the cap situation.

Cuban saw a player that's not a bum. He can shoot in space. John Jenkins will be a factor next year, Mark my words.

Jenkins is another one of those players, that for some reason, didnt mesh with Bud. Maybe he will get more playing time in Dallas.. 

The ONLY player i cringed more who took jump shots for the Hawks than Bazemore, was Josh Smith. Baze has a good slash game, excellent defender.........but that jump shot...........

My question... what credentials do Mark Bradley or Kevin Pelton have that any of us don't have?

Well, seeing as how almost EVERY statement i made about the garbage Pero Antić still being on this squad was met with ANALYTICS on this board, and almost EVERY break down of a player on THIS board is made with ANALYTICS...............I THINK THE INVENTOR OF THE WARP AND SCHOENE SYSTEMS FOR THE NBA IS QUALIFIED TO TELL THE BOARD what the Hawks did this off season:

http://www.sonicscentral.com/kevinpelton.html

Kevin Pelton joined ESPN Insider as an NBA analyst in January 2013. Along with Tom Haberstroh, he writes the daily "Per Diem" column covering the NBA using advanced statistical analysis. Pelton developed the WARP rating system and SCHOENE projection system for the NBA.

Previously, Pelton served as an author for BasketballProspectus.com since the site's inception in 2007 through 2012. Along with Bradford Doolittle, he co-authored four editions of the popular Pro Basketball Prospectus annuals. Pelton's NBA commentary also appeared on Hoopsworld.com, 82games.com, SI.com and in the Wall Street Journal. Pelton co-authored the paper "A Starting Point for Analyzing Basketball Statistics" with Justin Kubatko, Dean Oliver and Dan T. Rosenbaum and contributed to the College Basketball Prospectus series. He also served as a statistical consultant to the Indiana Pacers from 2010-12.

Pelton covered the WNBA's Seattle Storm for the team's official site, StormBasketball.com, from 2003-12. He spent four seasons as the beat writer for Supersonics.com. Prior to joining the Sonics & Storm, he founded the fan site SonicsCentral.com.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/9797404/explaining-schoene-projection-system

http://www.sonicscentral.com/warp.html

"J.R. had been exhibiting some delinquent behavior and had gotten into the habit of coming late to team meetings, or missing them altogether," Jackson says. "Also, Shump and Tim [Hardaway Jr.] were regressing, so I decided to meet with them separately and try to find out what, if anything, was bothering them." Smith was first on the list. "We talked about his statement to the press that our shooting guard depth was going to be the team's asset, but so far it hadn't worked out that way," Jackson says. "He was supposed to carry the scoring load for the second unit and he wasn't doing the job. I also said that because of his unacceptable behavior, he had two strikes against him with this team. He didn't really respond. He's a very sensitive guy, with his big doe eyes. He looked like he was going to tear up. But he finally responded that he was going through some issues with his gal."

 

http://markbradley.blog.ajc.com/2015/07/21/espns-pelton-gives-the-hawks-offseason-a-flat-c/

ESPN’s Pelton gives the Hawks offseason a flat ‘C’

  July 21, 2015 | Filed in: AJC Sports, Atlanta Hawks / NBA.

 

While I don't think Ferry really went all out to get Dwight, I also have come to see that it wouldn't have been good for us to get him anyway.

 

When you intimate that we need a player of his "caliber", I think you're forgetting that Howard isn't exactly an elite big man anymore.  He's certainly a name but he's not carrying a team to the Finals anymore.

Dwight wouldnt have to carry this team. THATS the point. All he has to do is protect the rim and rebound. The added bonus is his offensive presence in the paint, would give Hawks shooters even MORE open looks at the basket.

You realize we went after Dwight with a max offer the only time he has been an UFA, right?

WAS it a MAX offer? Did Ferry REALLY try and get Dwight?? Im not being sarcastic. I just dont remember Ferry making a SERIOUS effort to get Dwight. 

Lastly, next year, ESPECIALLY, will tell the tale with the Hawks because they will have cap and they have a reputation now of being winners.

but, but, they dont have the cap space to get a d league team..............lmao