atlhawks1
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Posts posted by atlhawks1
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I have confidence in Bud with this one. Outside of Pero, he makes move that APPEAR to not make sense at the time, but it comes together later........
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Cuban is just hoping he can nail down Jordan. He has missed on top free agents for like the last 5 years now. It is not an easy thing to land a true superstar.
Thats true, but, man, throw the loot out there...............
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Were the Braves a TOP free agent destination before Greg Maddox?? I REFUSE to believe the Hawks CANNOT convince a big time free agent to come to Atlanta. I refuse that, ESPECIALLY because of the fact that athletes love Atlanta. Its a top market, regardless of what ESPN, TNT AND THE NBA SAYS, and the city is possibly the fastest growing city in the United States . The NBA, the networks, and the Hawks THEMSELVES have made a decision years ago to not market the Hawks as a elite club.
You CREATE your market and you CREATE the desire for athletes to come to your ballclub. If you are serious about winning, and SERIOUS about PAYING a top athlete, you work it out. Mark Cuban ALREADY has announced that he wants Kevin Durant next year. Where is the Ressler?? The Hawks cannot let it be known that they want a player like Durant without entailing a fine from the NBA? In fact, Cuban dont care because he is a WINNER. The Mavericks are another ballclub that DOES WHATEVER IT TAKES TO WIN.
So, its not the players. Its Hawks ownership and management, in cahoots with the NBA and media. Atlanta is a market that that Hawks ownership and the media, NBA, etc. have never cared about developing beyond just GETTING BY.
Back when Ted Turner owned the Braves, the Braves and the Cubs were the ONLY two major league baseball clubs, in fact, the ONLY teams in PROFESSIONAL SPORTS, that were on TV NATIONALLY almost EVERY NIGHT. The Braves were the first. Commissioner Bowie Kuhn ( baseball), told Ted Turner to get serious about his ballclub because they represented the league and were a embarrassment. Since Ted owned the Braves and TBS, and he used them to fill programming space, the networks and major league baseball couldnt prevent Ted from what he was doing.
Suddenly, after baseball pulled his coat tail, Ted GOT SERIOUS, stepped back, hired the right people, and PAID TOP DOLLAR to get Greg Maddox, flirted with Barry Bonds, etc. Everytime a big time free agent came up in a discussion, the Braves were in the MIDDLE of EVERY conversation.
The Hawks dont even get into conversations, much less serious talks with other players. I know, i know, the cap room THIS year. What about NEXT YEAR? WHATS the excuse gonna be? I know, free agents dont wanna come to the Hawks. That excuse has gotten played out.
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Honestly, if you understand Hawks History, then you have to understand that we have never been a free agent destination. Seriously, I recall the Eric Dampiere, Kenyon Martin, Rick Fox, and Ced Ceballos snubs. We became a franchise that most FAs basically used to get better deals. Even when we had Nique. So clearing out cap space is meaningless. In those same prior times, FAs loved to visit and even live in Atlanta but didn't want to play for the Hawks. Even as far as a few years ago, We could have had Shaq for Marvin Williams. We declined... However, Shaq was only going to live here and play here but he was not going to really be a key player. He knew that he was done.
So, for those who thought trading Joe and Marvin for nothing was going to reap us a top tier Free Agents... Sheez... I got beach front property for you on Fair St.
Still the capspace looks good especially now that we have won something and improved our look. The whole changing the culture thing has to show some consistence in order for us to get to the place where our money is better than LAL's money.
I think our postchildren are DMC and Sap. They both have come here and remade themselves and became part of our winning tradition. The next step is to go farther.
You create your own market........
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I like Korver as a defender. I hate Korver defending SFs.
Ive never had a problem with Korver's defense..................
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If he just becomes a AVERAGE NBA center, the Hawk win because of his size. If he becomes a stud, obviously, he would be a steal for the Hawks. I still rather see Horford at 4, and a developed Tavares at 5, with Sap spending time at the 3 and backing up the 4.
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Nobody ever said that. It has been pointed out tho that we don't necessarily need the biggest names and sexiest stats to get it done with our system.
I have been on these boards for a while now and I saw the total meltdown that was happening around here when Carroll, Millsap, Thabo, and Bazemore were signed. Total hissyfit from about 90% of the board....we got a franchise record 60 wins and the first trip to the eastern conference finals out of those players and this SYSTEM. So excuse me if I don't pay any attention to those of you who have nothing positive to say about hawks player movement.
Is that not the SAME thing i said, but in a different way????????? lmao
I said " the system is gonna get it done, not players, according to the squawk."
You said " nobody ever said that."
Then turned around and said " It has been pointed out tho that we don't necessarily need the biggest names and sexiest stats to get it done with our system. "
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Just looking up Shaq, he got his last big pay day around Dwight's age now then started to ring chase (BOS) so I guess he may take that final pay day with HOU and just sign with ATL 4-5 years from now so I guess my original idea isn't possible.
Really, it doesnt matter WHAT Dwight wants because the Hawks arent serious about a player of his caliber anyway. On top of that, he doesnt fit the profile of a player the Hawks would want in their organization...........thats why they would never try and get Boogie. Sacremento could offer boogie for scott, mack and some draft picks, and the Hawks would STILL find a excuse not to work a deal...
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Welsey and Alan gone.....
Hawks have the best chance for these wings to get playing time and a better contract for the future and people still don't want to come here.
C'mon Mbah, Dorell, or Gerald....
The Hawks SYSTEM is gonna win them a chip, not players.......................according to the squawk..........
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Thabo is non existent offensively. Years ago he could shoot a three ball, but now he's worthless. It's 4 on 5 on offense.
And any team that is serious about trying to win isn't gonna start Thabo.
Yep, his shot isnt consistent enough to be a starter.
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TWO firsts???????? no wonder he still in Denver.
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Who were the FIRST TIER STAR Free Agents the year we signed Millsap and Carroll?
Let me save you the time: there were 2- Chris Paul and Dwight Howard (a little research would prevent your ranting) Paul did not visit ANY team and resigned with the Clippers immediately. Hawks had a meeting with D12, they were notified later they were out of the running.
The next tier of guys were players like Al Jeff, Iggy, Sap etc.
The Hawks next move plan B: signed Millsap, DMC, resigned Korver and Teague.
Why don't you list what your alternate plan would have been for the $30 mil after you take a peek at the 2013 free agent list.
Well, excuse me..........good points.....i just want that chip...........lmao
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We could do worse than Wesley Johnson. I just wish we weren't shopping in the bottom of the barrel when we need a legit small forward on the roster.
but, but, but according to the squawk, the Hawks can never maneuver the salary cap........lmao
Funny how the Spurs were able to convince David West to come there for the low.........MUST have something to do with the Spurs signing Aldridge, a FIRST TIER free agent......The Hawks will never change.........
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Understanding the cap is your issue if you think other teams don't have to maneuver with the cap. The exact same rules apply to every team. The differences derive precisely from how teams do their maneuvering. I keep seeing you reference us needing to sign a big FA when clearly the team doesn't even have the room to get a MLE FA. A team like the Cavs that positioned themselves with bird rights on tons of guys and didn't create cap space has the ability to do and spend a lot more than we do this year. We couldn't spend even close to them this year because we created cap room for this offseason. Each approach has costs and benefits but the same rules apply to both teams.
For the LAST time, im not talking about just THIS off season. Its ALWAYS been that way with the Hawks. So, what you are saying, in 40 plus years, the Hawks have had cap issues...............lmao. THATS MY POINT. They had MEGA cap room after Ferry cleared all that space when he dumped those salaries............and did NOT get or EVEN SEEK a first tier free agent. Bud is gonna do the same next year.......
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I wonder would Dwight consider ATL if him and Harden don't work out. Seems like all the superstar players are connected to going back home.
I believe Dwight would at this stage of his career. Either Sap or Horford in a trade for Dwight. Dwight is a dominating center when you surround him with shooters, like when he played with Orlando. The Hawks could inside/outside teams and be unstoppable.....
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The team has made 8 playoff appearances in a row.
My guess is that FA's aren't convinced that the Hawks can top the Cavs... So, the Spurs get David West for the league min while the Hawks have to trade for minor pieces.
And therein is WHY ive got numerous posts explaining that until the Hawks get REALLY serious and go after top tier free agents, or top tier players in a trade, the club is still looked at as a good team, that isnt gonna win a chip.........Work a trade for boogie, do SOMETHING to let the NBA know you serious...............
I think Coach Bud can turn just about ANY player into a better player in his system. Why not get a superstar into that system??
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Your being rude to one of our nicest and best posters on a salary cap issue that your don't really understand should be a big indicator that you need to step back and take deep breath before continuing on this topic. Read @hawksfanatic's posts, read Larry Coon's FAQ, and get yourself up to speed on the cap. When you have a better understanding on the cap, you will not be as frustrated by what likely seems like very unfair discrepancies between teams. The NBA is very different from MLB and the NFL.
The Squawk is actually a good forum for educating yourself on how the NBA cap works. I definitely have come a long way in that regard - long enough to realize that I still have more to understand. You'll get there but give it some time.
Understanding the salary cap isnt my issue. My issue is that from hawks HISTORY, even when they have room to REALLY maneuver with the cap situation, they DONT. The Hawks could have the MOST cap to work with next year, and STILL, they go after second and third tier free agents. History has shown that with the Hawks and believe new ownership will do the same...... How much cap space did Danny Ferry clear up, having Hawks fans thinking they were gonna shoot for top tier free agents, only to sign DMC and Sap???
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Looking way way way forward to the 2016-17 season, our roster looks to be strikingly similar to our upcoming 2015-16 roster, which will be a lot like last year. If you throw Taveras in, and the Hawks pick up team options we'd have 11 players returning, plus Bird rights on Horf. I'm sure his 5 year deal is already drafted with blanks in on the numbers for now. Baze is the only other contributor not team controlled. Horf could just blow the whole thing up by inking a cheaper deal with the Lakers, but if he doesn't we get our 2015-16 team back plus room for a shiny new free agent.
By my rough count we'll be at about $77 mil with Horf's cap hold. $10 mil over the current cap, which mean no FAs if the cap didn't rise. But we've all been told of the spike. The Hawks are in OK shape, unlike some teams, if it doesn't truly spike. With a cap of $80 mil the Hawks can dump Mack and add a guy on a 3 year $18 mil deal. That's certainly better than what they can do this year. If the cap is $90 mil, and we dump Mack and Scott (team options) we are talking about a max player. Kevin Durant or Dwight Howard anyone? The last article I read said $87 mil. Maybe not Kevin Durant money, but perhaps that's where we find our SF for a championship core?
Hawks are NOT gonna seek a premium free agent. They wanna build around second and third tier free agents. They can have all the cap space in the world and its not gonna happen. Ferry had the Hawks at nearly 30 million in cap space, and went and got DMC and Sap. Bud is gonna follow the same blueprint. There will be no Durant, Howard, James, Curry, Wade types coming thru that door.
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Dude you said Sap took LESS money so there should be MORE money available to spend now - I explained why their isn't.
You still have no understanding of how teams get into the position to pay the Luxury Tax. When you do, you'll say.....aaaahhhhh!
Until you do I'm done with this convo.
Let me break this down in kindergarden. The Hawks have been in Atlanta over 40 years without a championship. In that time, they have had TWO what you would call premium, superstar players: Dominique Wilkins and Mutumbo. What im saying is the HAWKS need to figure out how to work that salary cap and get ANOTHER superstar into Atlanta. Its always a excuse. Always next year.
Danny Ferry cleared out all that space when he first took the job and had everybody thinking they was gonna make a run at a premium free agent. He didnt. There IS NO next year or working the salary cap with the Hawks. The Hawks wanna build around next tier players and hope their SYSTEM brings the chip home, but i say it will not. ( see lebron james, see wade, see curry, etc.) ....
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How many times has this been covered.............
And NOT addressed by the Hawks.............
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I got all excited for NOTHING...........Hawks not gonna sign this dude..........
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Sap did not take less money per year, he took a year less over the entire deal. 3 yrs from the Hawks, 4 years from the magic, annual raise of 7.5% from Hawks, 4.5% from Magic.
Starting max salary if $18.8 million.
Basic CBA stuff and math
Sigh
Does it matter if he took less this year, next year, three years down the road??? He took LESS............LMAO
I just AGREED with the poster that said Sap took less money...........
sigh.........
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I assure you @atlhawks1 that WHEN the Hawks have bird rights for their own and traded players, they'll go over the cap to re-sign the ones they want to keep. Ressler has told us he will. I know that'll be a happy day for ya. 2016 with Horford, be ready...
Thats not my issue. My issue is them not adding BIG TIME free agents to the Hawks........
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1. Aldridge had no interest in the Hawks
2. It's not as if Splitter won't fill a need for us
3. Name one FA that wasn't their own that Cleveland has signed.
4. Joe Johnson is being traded not signed.
Yawn.............Either get serious and put up the money to pursuade ballers to come to Atlanta ( like the Braves did with Greg Maddox), or continue to rebuild every year..........Its that simple......
The next best thing is to go sign a player like Wesley Johnson, and that hasnt happened yet either. They at least got to do that.
Justin Holiday signed by hawks
in Homecourt
Posted · Edited by atlhawks1
Were DMC or Sap starters when they came over?? It wouldnt shock me to see the Hawks deploy this:
c horford
pf sap
sf holiday/thabo any combination of minutes
sg hardaway/ korver any combination of minutes
pg teague