ThomasCredle

I guess we will have Dedmon back at the 5, Collins at 4, prince at 3, baze at 2, and I have to think we trade Dennis for a second round pick or something and start Trey at PG.  I cant see him coming off the bench or learning bad habits from Dennis

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

With significantly better numbers in 2017 and significantly worse numbers in conference play and 2018.

That is my concern was it the double and sometime triple teaming that drove down his production or was it the physical defense and being worn down that lead to the drop.  I hope the former he won't get the kind of defensive attention on the Hawks.  If it's the latter he may really struggle in the NBA.

ESPN had his shooting percentage last year at 42% for what it's worth and 3 point percentage at 36%

http://m.espn.com/ncb/playerseasonstats?season=2018&playerId=4277905&teamId=201

9 minutes ago, Watchman said:

Well, let's see.  He can't shoot, he makes a lot of turnovers and plays no defense.  All he is great at is throwing the ball at the backboard.  Dennis already did a good job at that.  And he makes Dennis look big.  Pathetic.

I feel you on the defense and turnovers but saying he cant shot is a little much.  The kid lead college in scoring and assists so he can shoot and pass the rock.  I'm over the shock now I'm just hoping he grows into a serviceable defender and can stay healthy because he is dynamic on offense and already lightyears better than Dennis shooting the ball.

I want to know what we get for Dennis because he has a ticket on Delta somewhere in his future.

I would like to think he would have maximized his freakish athleticism and prevented the bad habits that damaged his career.  Im not sure any coach could have really done much though he never seemed like a coachable player to me.  Too dependant on raw athletic ability and not willing to work on doing the little things that make you truly great.

I agree that a rookie posting an average double double is very lofty expectations but if saying I would be exceedingly pleased to see it makes me a Homer than I'm happy to be one.  Just call me a different drinking big blue haired female kid donut munching Homer!!!

If we get 16-10 from a rookie power forward I will be very pleased.  Based on his college play I think he will be able to score.   Double figure rebounds would be huge because I worry about how well the team will rebound next year.

Hopefully Collins won't be "determined" to jack up poor shot decisions like Smoove though!

9 minutes ago, sturt said:

I can buy that, @ThomasCredle. And, then, when you basically are replacing your entire frontcourt, that naturally is going to top the priority list.

But I think there's some belief among the coaching staff that Delaney's first year was an aberration, with him getting acclimated to the new environment, and particularly where his shooting was concerned. He's never shot as bad as he shot last season, college or Euro. He's certainly capable of better on that front. But I'm more interested to see if he can play team ball. Very little evidence of that in highlight clips that I've seen from his Euro days. I can easily see him improving in scoring, but getting replaced as the #2 nonetheless if the #2 exceeds his play in terms of sharing the ball and in terms of D.

I think that is spot on analysis of the questions and concerns with Delaney as the primary back up point guard.   I really think he will shot better but I question his ability to manage the offense.  I hope a year of experience.  I also don't remember that being a strength from his VT days.   He will have to really reduce turn overs and panic plays as well.   It looks like he is going to get a shot to earn major minutes this year lets hope he takes advantage of it and this time next year we are talking about our solid depth at PG!

On 7/13/2017 at 8:44 AM, KB21 said:

It's not going to be a good season.  Looking at WARP projections from FiveThirtyEight's CARMELO projections, the Hawks top 10 players on the roster are projected to have a combined WARP of 6.4 in 2018.  If you account for 10 wins that a replacement level team is likely to get, then the Hawks top 10 players would add about 6-7 wins on top of that.  So, with this roster, the Hawks are probably looking at around 17-18 wins if everyone plays to their projection.

If someone blows up this year, like let's say Dennis, then you might see the Hawks get to 25 wins.  With Bud's coaching, that could get pushed to 30 wins.  I can't see them winning more than thirty.  If I had to make a prediction, I'd say they win around 23 games.

Maybe FiveThirtyEigth gets this predication as wrong as the election and we shock some folks.

We did pick a year to "tank" when the East is looking really weak.   I think we have around 30 wins and sit in 9th or 10th spot.  However, it would be "True to Atlanta" to win just enough to slip into the eight seed and a fast 1st round bounce and miss the lottery.  

It would be a huge boost to this rebuild to get lucky in the lottery and have a top 3 pick in this draft to go with our other likely late 1st round picks.   If we do get a high pick please let it turn out to be a Horford pick and not a Marvin, the duck, Williams or Shellhead bust like we have had in the past!

2 minutes ago, noble said:

If you aren't going to a super team a player like Marshall can explain the benefits to living in the city. All things being equal between the talent in Minny, Denver, and Phoenix as in you probably aren't winning a title with the roster and the money is about the same, it comes down to area. Marshall probably talked up the area, explained life there as a public figure, and spoke to the taxes, people, etc. It is one issue with Atlanta attracting big names. It is a transient city for the most part, which makes it a hard place to call large market as there is a lot of split loyalty to teams out of state. Add in one of the higher Jock Taxes at 6% it makes it hard to attract primetime players. NYC and CA have higher Jock Taxes, buy there is a lot of press, local support, local coverage, and national coverage which helps their brands and players to make more money. 

Several really good points about how a non NBA star could impact a decision.  I really agree with the tax issue being a factor and the lack of born and bred Atlanta residents that bleed Braves, Falcons, and Hawks.  I hate seeing all the other team jerseys when the Hawks host the Knicks, Celtics, or Lakers.  

At least we have a bunch of celebrities that can help out if we get to the point where our team is attractive to a top ten player.  Gotta get the team there first then through in the extra little things to seal the deal!

I can't wait to see the four letters hype for Bama vs. FSU.   Since last year we were bombarded with "Best Opening Week EVER" constantly.   I can already see the "Best week one game EVER" promo's being run all over ESPN.   I can't wait for the game but the hype may be way over the top.

Just now, sturt said:

Schlenk specified that he is expecting to sign a 3rd PG during his Q&A with C-Viv last week.

I have no doubt we are going to sign another PG, hopefully a vet that wants to teach and help develop our young players.   The point I was trying to make was the Hawks didn't seem to make signing that third PG an early priority in FA.  Since they seemed content to wait out the market I felt it could show they have confidence in what we have and didn't feel they had to go get an immediate upgrade early when the most talent was available.

If we have an all star point guard in Dennis, and all star PF in Collins and/or SF in Prince with a bunch of young talent around them Matty Ice, Julio Jones, Lil John, or the girls from the Cheetah won't be necessary the product on floor will attract the talent.  Today is all about super team and you almost always have to home grow your first super star or three like GS.   All the other stuff is just icing on cake that we can't bake yet but I have hopes we may have the recipe and are about to start heating up the oven!

Just now, Hotlanta1981 said:

Outmatched by Lebron. 

That probably would have been a better way of phrasing that but outmatched non the less.   Hopefully LeBron will be losing a step by the time this version of the Hawks is ready for a tile run.

On 7/15/2017 at 11:52 AM, Blunt91 said:

I am thinking he might be throwing that Ball kid under the bus since everybody's trying to make him out to be the next Superstar.

I completely agree this was a straight shot at Lonzo and all the noise about the triple doubles in summer league.   I can't see him taking a shot at a team mate he has never shown any locker room cancer traits like that.  I sure as hell hope it isn't the first indication of that kind of mind set.  He is a key piece of the new foundation.

I'm actually willing to give Delaney a second year to show something.   DMC, Baze, and THjr all broke out in year two.   Delaney can shot he has shown it other places but he has to be comfortable in the system and not thinking but reacting and shooting in a natural flow.   The lack of movement on a third PG makes me think that the Hawks are still pretty high on him and letting Bembry handle the ball more this year.   That being said i really wish one of the Vet points were a better locker room presence.   We need someone that wants to teach and help develop not a chucker or a malcontent.  

Maybe CJ Miles or Norris Cole could play that coach on the floor in practice and teach some veteran tricks to our younger players.   Neither would give us much if anything on the floor though. 

If we go after another young Ennis all the way

On 7/13/2017 at 9:48 PM, wolvetigers said:

 

(Sorry about the re quote using my kids chrome book and I can't make it delete)

But I do think this will be the starting line up opening night

PG - Dennis

SG - Baze

SF - Prince

PF - Ilyasova

C - Moose (Only because they knows the system this won't last)

I don't think it will be very long maybe just a couple of weeks before we have this depth chart though

PG - Dennis, Delaney, (FA)

SG - Bembry, Belinelli, Dorsey

SF - Prince, Bazemore, 

PF - Collins, Ilyasova, Moose

C - Dedmon, Plumlee, Moose, Diamonds 

That team is young but damn I think it could be special in a year or two

On 7/13/2017 at 9:48 PM, wolvetigers said:

Agreed with the Quinn comment, but damn man still too soon after that vision did seem to work in the superbowl. 

Back to our Hawks:

This is a completely different scenario..the Hawks were a playoff team when Bud arrived, now they are no where near a playoff birth..Plus we lost our best player Milsap (2nd leading scorer) and our 3rd leading scorer in Hardaway. This is a significant change, when you're running the offense through Milsap to now seeing who you should run the offense through all together....

As Hawks fans we are hoping Prince, Bembry, even Collins contribute significantly- but Coach Bud has to see how these guys will react being in starting roles, which means changing the rotation almost every other week. The good news is Hawks fans and ownership will learn right away if Prince, Collins, Bembry can be true starters and impact players in the league.

 

 

 

I don't think Coach Bud deserves much hate for the recent exodus of the players.  I am not looking forward to a potential season of night in night out losing.  That being said i am willing to accept the Hawks coaches and executives realizing that Red Aurbach, Phil Jackson, Pat Rilley, and John Wooten on the bench together couldn't coach a team lead by the core from our 60 win season could beat the Warriors and win a title.  We were clearly out matched by the Cavs with that core.  I think we have a ton of potential and our team is filled with young players that are hungry to improve.   Coach Bud did more than most coaches could with our prior lines ups.   It may not work out but I think that next year he is going to be able to do amazing things with a team of Dennis, Bembry, Prince, Collins as a starting line up.   Baze can be a great six man.   Our player development is among the best and we may see some of the young bigs we got this year turn heads.   If non of the young talent on the team becomes all stars or productive pros I will join the Bud hate train.  In my view though we have the perfect coach to bring along a bunch of young players and have home grown studs in a few years.   We will have the cap space to add a seasoned top 10 player that could be the piece that puts in the finals.   I hope  Bud don't make me eat all these words but I am more optimistic about the future of the Hawks than I have been in years.   I will take some growing pains if we are going for the big prize and not just treading water and our biggest achievement is a play off streak that never made a finals.

39 minutes ago, Hotlanta1981 said:

Well, I would expect him to play more than 9 minutes per game this year, but I don't think he should start. 

I completely agree he won't or should not start.  I see him as a nice bench player that can back up Prince at the three or Baze (player to be signed maybe) at the two.  He was a late 1st pick if he becomes a dependable rotation player that provides quality depth than I would consider the pick a success.   I think he can be that.  But I don't see starter or all star but maybe a sixth man of the year if he really exceeds expectations.

I think Bembry showed brief flashes of ability but was, like most rookies, thinking too much in a complex system and trying so hard not to make a mistake you end up getting to an assignment late or take a shot trying to show an offensive game that is ill advised.  He had strong d league numbers where he didn't feel the pressure.  He showed he can dominate a game this last game in summer league.  I think this year the game will slow down for him.  He will react not think about what to do and will show a lot of improvement.   

I don't think he will be an all star but can be a strong role player with athletic defensive skills and be competing with second team NBA players.  

The second year will tell if we have something or not 1st year can flat out show you can't play in the NBA but it usually takes two or three to show you can.  I didn't see anything last year that made me think he flat out doesn't belong in the league.  I hope he exceeds my expectations and really becomes an asset.

I think Klay will be getting that call but like a couple people above said.   Dennis will have to be an all star and Collins or Prince emerging stars for him to actual consider it.  

I would love for us to be that team needing one more superstar to be contenders and Klay to have enough ego that he wants to be the Man and not the third option

22 minutes ago, sillent said:

Alot of people lack vision but I can see it clear now. THIS IS A 3 YEAR PROCESS and in that 3rd year we will be legit contenders. This isn't a 76ers, wolves, suns, kings, lakers or any other team that had to restart and rebuild and take what seemingly feels like forever. True we will not be too good next year but we will be competitive. Still bad enough though to rack up on another talented draft and get our big of the future to pair with Collins, Dennis, Prince, Bembry. We will draw alot of attention in our second year and possibly even get to the playoffs and/or draw a big name in free agency that sees our vision and where we are going. Possibly even someone like Antetekoumpo(I'm sure I spelt that wrong) but Schlenk will look to sneak in and get a great young up and coming talent on a great contract. In the 3rd year our team will be gelling with great cap space, young, hungry and more developed talent and looking to make waves in this league for years to come. Precise planning and strategy is what is going to allow this to happen and also is exactly what we're doing. With Hawks U still in place a great shooting coach our young players will develop faster than most and we will be credited as a model franchise via Spurs/Warriors caliber.    

MOCK MY WORDS BUT WE WILL BE GREAT FOR A LONG TIME IN/AFTER 3 YEARS AND WE'RE IN YEAR #1   

I feel the same we have the potential to be hitting our stride right as golden state and Cleveland decline or break up.  It still is painful now watching us just lay a foundation.  Here's to delayed gratification and faith in then"plan"

If we do facitate this kind of trade I sure hope our new GM's process improves our team as much the next couple years as he has helped other teams improve this off season