Hawkmoor

8 minutes ago, AHF said:

NO is such an interesting team.  They have so many good pieces.  Jones, Murphy, Zion, Ingram, Daniels, McCollum, Jonas, etc. and still I don't think anyone is afraid of them.

Because they don't have a true point guard.  Which is why the Hawks should be in "come on down" mode with the Pelicans:

Just now, AHF said:

My first blush reaction to this is really positive.  Lord knows we need someone with a deft and creative mind helping us on cap management and on maximizing the ins and outs of the salary cap in the trade context.  Given his background, I don't see a high risk of this introducing confusion on scouting, etc.  

I'm sure they already have someone on board that manages the cap?  They surely do? The Hawks don't want to go into the luxury tax so maybe they do need several cap experts who can keep them a penny under the tax while building the roster.

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

It's not about agreeing with me. This ain't a draft thread, this is about trade value and how teams perceive players. As good as Murray is, there just aren't a ton of suitors. Whereas, there are a lot of Jones. A lot of teams need what Jones brings to the table. 

That's why I said, name brand doesn't matter. That's not how trades work in the NBA in today's league 

Does that block button still work?  I'm putting it to use right now.

Thats the Atlanta Spirit we miss.  Bring in more voices...

5 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I don't remember writing that.

You said " Trade value is different than brand name of the said player."   Why must you still argue after someone says they agree with you?

6 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Trade value is different than brand name of the said player. 

Let me say this another way.  I'm the one who brought up Jones initially.  You keep trying to put something out there about what I'm saying which is not true. The last thing you wrote is WHY Ingram has more value to the Hawks. BRAND, MARKETING, STEVE KOONIN, THE HYPE.  Thats what moves the needle in Atlanta, not getting complete ballers.  I would rather have Jones straight up over Ingram because he plays defense at a high level as well as scoring. We are in agreement with that.

10 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

To be frank, we wanted to tank during the Horford years too. Everyone wants to tank again when they simply aren't contenders 

You see Ingram way higher than you should and you see Jones way lower than you should. 

No. Jones is the centerpiece of my DJM trade to the Pelicans.  I'm the one who initially brought up Jones in this thread so how in the heck do I have a lower value on him than I should?  In fact,  I'm of the belief that the Pelicans wouldn't give up Jones AND picks in my proposed trade of DJM.  Its the Hawks DESIRE TO RECOUP some of those firsts which is gonna dictate how or if they move Young or DJM.  Its WHY DJM is still on this roster. Teams don't want to give up players AND picks for DJM, especially with the Hawks not having any leverage.   

As far as Ingram goes, everybody knows the Hawks need another player who can create his own shots and has length.  You getting 20 points from Ingram and he can create his own shot.  But enough of Ingram because the Pelicans would not move him.  Jones is the guy and he is the better trade because the Hawks are not gonna move off Young.  If they can get Dyson Daniels in the deal somehow with Jones the Hawks would instantly be better defensively AND they can keep Young.  Heck, throw in AJ Griffin.  I'm not opposed to moving Bufkin too in order to get Jones and Daniels.

7 minutes ago, Spud2nique said:

“It takes years"

He is right about that because the Hawks have been rebuilding since 1969...

22 minutes ago, theheroatl said:

I still think the Pelicans and Griff are the ideal trade partner for this offseason...

Anything centered on DJM and including Herb Jones would be great... 

 

No way the Pelicans move Ingram without Young being in the deal (my opinion).  Ingram AND Jones for Murray and Hunter?  I mean, again, the Pelicans are getting ripped off in that deal, lmao.   Jones and Daniels like I mentioned earlier is more LIKELY for DJM.  I like the alternative you posted but the Pelicans ain't that ignorant, lmao

CBS Sport floated out trading Young for Ingram and some picks.  Thats interesting because the Pelicans don't have a true point guard and Barkley mentioned it during a recent telecast. I looked at that and saw a better plan (because its more doable). I believe neither the Hawks or Pelicans would want to move off Ingram or Young. That plan would be to trade DJM to the Pelicans for Herbert Jones and Dyson Daniels. The numbers say it would work with the Pelicans receiving DJM and the Hawks receiving Herbert Jones and Dyson Daniels.  Picks can be worked out obviously.  The strength of THAT trade would be the Hawks getting length and defense from Jones and Daniels and scoring from Jones.

Snippets below from CBS Sports.  I like the idea of Brandon Ingram (Pelicans need a point guard) and picks for Young:

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/trae-young-couldnt-lead-the-hawks-into-the-playoffs-and-its-time-for-atlanta-to-trade-the-star-guard/#:~:text=If all keeping Young would,2027 free agency as leverage

"That's not all Trae Young's fault... but it would be hard to keep ignoring what a seismic negative impact he has on Atlanta's defense. Atlanta allowed 119.1 points per 100 possessions with Young on the floor this season, just half a point off of the NBA record for worst defensive efficiency over a full season. Young has played six NBA seasons and the Hawks have been better on defense without him in each of them. In the first four, Atlanta's defense produced its best defensive rating during any player's absences with Young sitting. The trend line here is pretty clear. When Young rests, the Hawks are generally pretty good on defense. When he plays, they're bad."

"That's more or less what happened when Young missed 23 games near the end of the season. The Hawks went 12-11 with the 18th-best defensive rating in the NBA. Not great. Not terrible. On the year, the Hawks were 14-14 without Young and 22-33 with him (including Wednesday's season-ending Play-In game). Young has generally made up for those defensive shortcomings by leading a very good offense. The Hawks ranked 12th this year. Not exactly a worthwhile trade for arguably the worst defender in the NBA."

"Young wants to run spread pick-and-roll every time down the floor. His priorities, in order, are to get a layup, get fouled, get a clean floater, get a clean 3-pointer, throw a clean lob or kick it out to an open shooter. This is antithetical to Murray's desire to dribble too much and settle for contested mid-range jumpers. The partnership might be able to survive a "your turn, my turn" compromise if either were consistent shooters off the catch or eager movers off of the ball. Neither have been."

"If all keeping Young would accomplish is another few years of mediocrity, it's in the team's best interest to trade him now, while he still has two years of contractual control, than to hold on to him and either lock themselves into another enormous contract or risk him using his impending 2027 free agency as leverage to force a trade somewhere that can't give the Hawks the assets that they want. And, in this case, there are a few assets that Atlanta should very badly want."

 "The best-case outcome for the Hawks would be interest in Young from the San Antonio Spurs. Why? Because the Spurs control Atlanta's first-round picks in 2025, 2026 and 2027. Those picks are the key to unlocking a full rebuild for Atlanta. Get them back and suddenly you're pick-neutral again."

"Would the Pelicans consider a swap of Brandon Ingram for Young given their wing depth? Even if the deal only includes picks, those picks can be redirected for players in separate deals."

"None of these paths necessarily generate great odds at championship contention, but well, the Hawks have themselves to blame for that after trading Luka Doncic to get Young in the first place."

53 minutes ago, KB21 said:

There was a foul call on DeAndre last night that was beyond ridiculous.

Which begs the statement and the question:  Does it matter who the Hawks draft or get in free agency if that player,  like Hunter, isn't allowed to play defense?  I've been sitting on that statement and question for a while but I'm soo tired of the NBA at this point that I wanted to put it out there.  The Hawks actually played a game where the other team scored 157 points. The Bulls scored 131 points in what was essentially a playoff game.  That doesn't happen unless the rules and officiating is allowing it.  The NBA cried about the high scoring allstar game.  Well, the players were playing like they normally play.  They wanted scoring and thats what they got.

8 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

and then it's so inconsistent.  Hunter never in a million years would have gotten away with this "defense" from whoever this dude is.  And not only that people act like it was some great play.  it's like 3 fouls to get the ball. 

 

The NBA ought to be ashamed of themselves.  

12 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Spoelstra and his staff in Miami are great, IMO.  I think Houston is potentially building something with Ime and his staff as well.

You are correct.  Miami has that culture where they play team basketball and lets the coaching staff do its job.  You are correct about Houston as well.  Indiana is another team that the head coach has a heavy influence on the team as a whole and they play hard for him (Rick Carlisle).

6 minutes ago, KB21 said:

This coaching staff is great.  Maybe not to the level of the 2013 staff yet, but it's one of the better staffs in the NBA.

Its not just the Hawks either.  I see too many NBA teams playing playground basketball on offense or offenses with players just standing there with no movement.  The players run the NBA.  Good coaches don't have the effect they used to have.  Very few teams have a culture where they don't let the players run the coaching staff:  Boston, Golden State, San Antonio, etc.( though you can make a solid case that even Golden State lets Green get away with too much).  Giannis is the latest example in Milwaukee.  They had a legit good head coach who had them playing defense but through all the hoopla it came down to him not wanting Giannis non playing, roster spot taking, brother on the team so Giannis had him fired. Of course Giannis denied it, lmao

Another elephant in the room:  Quin Snyder put together one of the best coaching staffs that I can remember ever in the NBA, highlighted by Mark Brey, 13 NCAA tournament appearances,  three sweet 16 appearances,  two elite 8 appearances.   Igor Kokoskov, 23 years NBA experience, worked under Alvin Gentry as his lead assistant in Phoenix.  I mean they are stacked in the coaching department.  The result of that is a team with Trae and Murray running a ( Its your turn, no its my turn) offense and zero defense for most part of the season.  It can't be coaching.

21 minutes ago, KB21 said:

That "offensive 5" has to also be either an elite rim protector or a switchable defender who can guard multiple positions.  We can't have a weak defender at both point guard and center going forward.

Edey is the most overrated player to come out of college in a long time.  The college game is tailor made for a guy his size who can dominate at that level.  The NBA is a different beast.  He HAS to be able to play in space at that level and can't.  Edey might be a career bench player in the NBA at most.  In fact, not only is he not a space player either offensively or defensively, I noticed that if you go straight AT him on offense, he freezes and you can shoot over him.  He is at best a weakside help defender who can block your shots when you ain't looking for him in the paint.  He also got the Lebron treatment  (can't touch him but he can run straight thru you without a call).

6 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

One guy?

Who else you gonna go get?

1 hour ago, JayBirdHawk said:

We need to get DEFENSE and be BIGGER, add more length and athleticism, be more versatile across the board, need toughness.

I agree with the first part.  As far as length and athleticism, they already got that with Johnson and MAYBE with a healthy Okongwu.  6' 8" is tall enough in today's NBA.  Very few teams present a problem for you if you deploy that (Milwaukee, etc.).

Since most likely they will attempt to move Murray and keep Trae, they need a defense ONLY shooting guard to rotate out with Bogi.  Teams get the ball into the paint too easily with the combo of Murray and Trae.  The last part of this is the most amazing part:  Capela is garbage as a athletic scoring big but IS one of the best fits on this team for Young as highlighted by what Quin did yesterday. Outside of Murray freelancing, Capela was the team's best offensive option with Johnson out. They went back to Young and Capela's bread and butter pick and roll.  I need to see game film but it even looked like they were working backside screens for Capela to get them lobs also.

I guess Stephen A. Smith was lying too when he repeated what I said earlier:  "the Hawks came back with Trae on the bench."

"Murray upset with Trae."    Thats not a good look.

As soon as they benched Trae, the defense came alive and turned into offense.

Trae trying to set a turnover record in the playoffs.

Vucevic making Capela looks like Joel Embiid on offense...lmao