tmac13

Marvin was our most consistent player the 1st half of the season and his scoring average was equal or better than Josh Smith's. Joe was our go to guy the 2nd half of the season. Josh has his moments where he blows up, but he also has his moments where he just plain blows and that is no the definition of a go to guy.

Perhaps this is where you problem comes in, you believe that anyone defending Marvin sees his as a star, rather than as a nice piece like we actually do see him as, while you see him as a lazy kid who just wants to ride the bench.

You might as well give it up Dol. Smoove scores 17 a game and he is great. Marvin scores 15 a game taking 2.5 less shots and he is a lazy scrub. When Zone sees that as logic there is no point debating.

The real logic for almost all of the Marvin haters and Smoove nuthuggers is this..

Marvin was drafted to high and he isn't Chris Paul. Smoove is local, flashy, and he won a dunk contest. So by that logic Smoove is a star and Marvin is a scrub. Thats where their entire love and hate relationship with these 2 players begins and ends. They ignor the facts that after all is washed out they both have strengths and weaknesses that actually make them about equally productive on the court.

Diverse is having the ability to post up and take a player off the dribble. Diverse is the ability to be stronger than threes and quicker than fours.

How can you honestly say Smoove is not a diverse player? Do you dislike his game that much? You probably believe Woody and Smoove are holding Marvin back as well don't you.

Just as Marvin didn't have a problem with coming off the bench at UNC he doesn't have a problem with being a third or fourth option on this squad. You can't gauge desire and hunger in stats. Marvin gets his average on his ability alone. He isn't the type of player to carry his team on his back. His passion for the game isn't as high as Smoove and neither is his skills.

You call it playing within himself I call it not wanting to be the man or be in the spotlight. Who scored all the Hawks points in game 4 in the fourth quarter. JJ and Smoove. Marvin isn't a big time player so he was a ghost.

If you want to give me game 6 to prove Marvin is a big threat offensively then give me game three to prove Smoove is a three point shooter. Neither performance tells the real truth about both players.

But the 4th quarter of game 4 does? Maybe we should use game 7 where Smoove quit about halfway through the 1st quarter.. Smoove takes 2.5 more shots a game and scores 2 more point a game than Marvin. You think that makes Smoove a goto guy and Marvin a scrub?

GO DAWGS, SICK 'EM, WOOF, WOOF, WOOF!

I bleed red and black and I have never been this excited about an upcoming season. We have a brutal schedule but team is loaded and well coached.

I grew up with Skip, Pete and Ernie. My dad passed away a couple of years ago and Skip was always his favorite. It makes me especially sad to think of all the games we enjoyed together as Skip made the Braves entertaining even when they were awful. Even as I grew up and left home when my dad and I would talk baseball many of his sentences would start with "Ole Skip said"...............RIP Skip and good bess your family.

Pretty good. The one person you have to add to the list is Walter. At one point a few years back Walt was the "anti Diesel". They would go at it for weeks on end. They had the most combative arguments in the history of Hawksquawk..

Carmelo is better than Smoove PERIOD. A lot of people want to call him a "chucker" but he shot 49% from the field last year and he was #13 in the NBA overall in efficiency rating. Smoove is a FAR better shotblocker and a SLIGHTLY better rebounder but Carmelo is so much better offensively that it is not even worth discussing. As good as JJ is, if Carmelo were here, Carmelo would be the CLEAR go to guy on offense and JJ would be option #2.

I find it funny how people on this board always bash Carmelo Anthony. The same people all hope and pray Smoove is the next Dominique. . The ironic part of this is that the player who most currently plays like Dominique did is Carmelo Anthony. Their games are VERY similar as well as how they are viewed around the NBA. Smoove will NEVER be the player Carmelo is. Carmelo is a very good, approaching great offensive player.

You should watch the games and not the stats. Marvin's offensive game isn't as diverse as Smoove. You can't see that in a stat sheet.

Diverse? What is diverse about taking shots you can't hit? Marvin simply plays within his strengths and Smoove doesn't.

When does he not take open jump shots? I have rarely, if ever, seen Marvin pass up an open jumper. Yes, the FACT that Marvin doesn't pass up open jumpers ala Diaw shows that he is fearless about taking them, rather than being worried about missing? My point was that Smoove will intentionally NOT pass to a wide open Marvin and many here have seen it.

Just the fact that you compared Marvin to Diaw ends any credibility that you had in this discussion. Hate on Marvin all you want but no unbiased person would ever say that Marvin only wants to be a role player.

Feel free to continue arguing about this but I've said my peace and made my point.

This thread is crazy. You take a tiny sample size and then try to use it to bash some players and praise others.

Here are facts. Smoove averages 17 a game taking 14 shots per game.

Marvin averages 15 a game taking 11.5 shots a game. Smoove shots a great percentage inside 15 feet and is practically awful outside of 15 feet. Marvin is much more consistant but doesn't taqke the threes and doesn't drive the ball as much as Smoove.. It is obvious to me if you reversed the shot attempts Marvin would outscore Smoove by 3 or 4 points a game.

Smoove is aggressive to the point of being boneheaded at times. He is a better rebounder simply by virtue of the fact he plays near the basket on the defensive end.. Smoove is a supreme shotblocker but is a turnover machine. Marvin takes much better care of the ball than Smoove. Here is where I blame Woody. Why can't he read these same stats and eliminate Smooves long distance shooting and give Marvin 2 more medium range shots per game? The Hawks would be a better offensive team if Woody would simply lay down the law. "Smoove..Take a 3 and you are benched" " Smoove..If you look at a wide open Marvin and shot a wild jumper yo are benched." It should be that simple.

The point that you're trying to get over is that we can't do the 2005 draft over and we're stuck with Marvin.

I agree we can't do the draft over... However, for all the hype that Marvin still gets on this board, I want it quieted to a hush until he actually does something worthy of praise. Everyday, I listen to more lies about Marvin... "Marvin will increase his 3 pt shooting ability this year.". "Marvin is a great defensive player." "Marvin creates for himself unlike Chillz." "Marvin is the best candidate for Sf.". You see, it's lies like this that make people believe that Marvin is the best starter and the best player we have. I vehemently disagree. I said from Jump that CHillz outplayed Marvin, brought fire every game.

You say let it go, but you notice that every year, we lose another player because of Marvin? Every year, we play another player out of position because of Marvin.

How wonderful would this team be if we had Smoove at Sf, Horf at PF and we went out and got a Center? Wait, I hear the false argument coming.... Marvin is a better Sf than Smoove. Marvin shoots better from outside or better yet, Smoove is not a good outside shooter. Well Hello.. 1 for 10 on the season is not good from outside. Moreover, Smoove can actually create for himself.

So my purpose is to bring TRUTH into the conversation... Or is it that you don't care about truth?

I don't think we disagree and I don't think most here disagree that Marvin has flaws in his game. Marvin is decent spot up shooter. He has yet to add a long range shot and he is weak taking it to the basket. He is adequate defensive player. I do like him better at the 3 than Smoove. Smoove is a poor outside shooter and is reckless with the ball. In my opinion Smoove only needs to play the 3 if we sign a big with a decent midrange game so Smoove can stay near the blocks offensively.

I like him. I liked him as a college player. He was a leader and a big scorer at a small school, but he had a toughness to him. I would love to pick him up, but I don't think Woody would use him right. Woody like Utility bigs. Woody doesn't really have true offensive scheme. Joe Johnson isolation. I think the few plays we saw last season were because of stuff that Bibby drew up.

A guy like Fazekas would thrive on a team that has good coaching and offensive attention to detail. He'd probaby do well in houston or in New Orleans where he could find his spot on offense.

I could see him being a nice compliment to Horf and Smoove since offensively he can play away from the basket and he is a good defensive rebounder. I would much rather have him than Solo who turns the game into a 4 on 5 on the offensive end.

I just read that the Clips have made him an unrestrcted free agent. I like his game and think he might fit well here in a backup role. He is 6'11 about 240 and can hit the 18 footer. He avereaged nearly 5 points and 4 boards in only 12 minutes per game. He might be a nice inexpensive backup 4/5.

Haha, who did Marvin Beat off the dribble (some guys falling out of bounds)??

I'll take your Marvin Williams scoring with no defenders presence.. and I'll raise you a Chillz over KG in the clutch!

Once again, whats your point???? Do you think if you bash Marvin on a daily basis he will take notice and change his game? Maybe Stern will notice and give us a do-over in the draft and we can take Paul? Why not just hope he continues to improve and support him since he is a Hawk. At least he chooses to play in the NBA instead of the Greek minor league.

It's been what 3 years or so since we drafted Akyol and Sekou still doesn't know, that Akyol never played PG? I'm sorry that's kinda bad research, if my job is writing and knowing everything about a certain team, then I should make sure that I make my research on all parts of the team.

Sekou is always getting the few facts he actually writes about incorrect. Cenk has NEVER been viewed as a point guard. The blurb Sekou said last week about the Hawks not being able to use the entire mid-level because of Chillz caphold was also wrong. If my only job is the know all the facts about 1 team I would do my homework better if I were him.

Marvin still remains the most idealized and lied about player on this board.

You know, you would expect that from somebody like Solo or West whom many people have not seen. However, we've had 3 years of Marvin. He's not making large leaps at all. I'm sure Walt or Exodus can compare tendex or PERs for Marvin and I'm sure that there's not much growth taking place. Well, maybe a little but nothing as significant as the hopes of this board.

I watched Marvin start off the season strong and just take a belly flop from late Jan to May.

Now, there's no Chillz. Now, we have a PG. Now, there are no more excuses...

Okay? So what is your point? Marvin over Paul and Deron was a mistake. We all know that. I knew that on draft night as I was one of the few here who wanted Paul.. I watched them both play in college and it didn't take a basketball expert to see which one was better..But that is all water under the bridge.... I can't remember anyone on this board "idolizing" Marvin. Most of us just simply hope for the best.

More fluff from Sekou.

Why is it we get more information from the national media right now than from Sekou?

I agree. He might as well just say "Got Nothin". Whats the point of these articles/blogs.

Who was it that scored 56 pts shooting 57% against the DPOY in our victories in games 3 and 4?

I don't quite agree with the premise of the original post but if you are going to talk about Smooves great play in games 3 and 4 I think we should also discuss him quitting like a dog in game 7.. Smoove has the talent but I wish he would take a dose of Horfords attitude.

So you're saying Childress is the reason J Smith was shooting threes?

I am saying having 2 or 3 that prefers to play near the basket can create bad spacing for big guys that also need to be near the basket..Anytime Chillz was in the game the spacing on the floor was bad.. Smooves bad shot selections are on him and Woody but having Chillz in there didn't help.

While I'm sad to lose Chillz, to me the most intriguing part of this equation becomes Marv. In a contract year, with more playing time, increasing importance, and an additional year of seasoning, he has a chance to really blow up.

I really think he might, and hope we can lock him up early (yeah, I know, good luck with that one).

I agree this might be good for Marvin. Lets face it, Marvin was put into a very bad situation in Atlanta. Everyone except Billy Knight was screaming for a big or a point guard that year. He is drafted by a team that already has 2 2nd year players that think they are the Hawks small forward of the future. Then Chris Paul blows up almost immediately and that turns the pressure up even more. Then Smoove is put at the 4 but he obviously still tries to play like he is the 3. You have Chillz replacing you after the 5 or 6 minute mark of most every game. Thats alot for a 19 or 20 year old guy to have to deal with. Maybe now he will relax and just play his game and take it to the next level.

Ok, so Chillz is gone. Does anyone here want to focus on the basketball part of the equation? Chillz strengths were rebounding and interior scoring. When Chillz was on the floor with Smoove his need to play close to the basket forced Smoove to take his offensive game to the perimeter where he is much less effective. We replaced Chillz with Evans who is a better perimeter defender and a better shooter. Sure he won't rebound like Chillz but I think he is a better fit for the team as a whole. With Evans in the game Smoove can stay close to the basket where he is very effective along with Horf. From a purely basketball point of view were should be a better balance offensive and defensive team with Evans..Of course for this to work out we must either resign Smoove or get maximum value for him.

I have move on. Hawks still control his rights. I wouldn't be shocked to see Chill back with the team next year.

It would be a great PR move to bring Chillz back if Belkin finally wins his case with the ASG..

"Below the MLE is a lowball offer for a player who was in the running for 6th man of the year.

Ginoboli, Barbosa, Gordon, Mike Miller, Jamison and Bobby Jackson all make more than the MLE. In some cases much more."

Did Gordon sign? I don't think you can compare Chillz to Ginoboli or Jamison. They are much better players.

To me the bottom line is the Hawks didn't show Chillz the love and he trumped them. I think their offer was fair but they didn't make him feel wanted. I also took from his interview he wanted to have a chance to start. That part goes straight back to Woodson and Knight for drafting the same positions over and over.

In the situation we are in now, it would not have mattered one bit which Josh you signed first. I mean, if he agreed to a 5 year 33 Million dollar deal, does it matter if you signed him before or after Smoove? No... We are over the cap either way. That's why it's so stupid. The claim going into this offseason was our top priority is to resign the Joshes. It's stated that way because they knew that our salary would not allow us to do much more than resign both Joshes.

Moreover, on the starter note...

Marvin is not doing a bang up job as starter either. I mean, you guys act as though Chillz was on the bench behind Scottie Pippen. Most games, Chillz has a much bigger impact than Marvin. Marvin can't score without JJ. Most of the points that you see for Marvin, you should give those to JJ because Marvin does nothing on the court. CHillz on the other hand, plays a lot without JJ. He scores, he does what he needs to do. Woody has miscoached and misused his players and it's probably to fulfill BK's agenda.

I listened to the entire interview and Chillz NEVER said they agreed to the 33 million deal. He said they offered it and he wasn't happy with it and the Hawks told him to go find a better deal. He said 2 championship teams offered much better deal in snt proposals but the Hawks never matched the better offer and didn't pursue the deals. .

...that the ASG's goal is "not to win a popularity contest, but to win games"?

Do they owe us anything more than that? Should we not get "emotionally attached", as Gearon noted, to the players, when he really should just be focused on winning?

For me, yes, winning is obviously a huge part - but there is something to be said for doing it with players that I - that we - like, watching homegrown talents like Smoove make it happen. It's entertainment, after all, and part of it is giving the fans what they want, no?

I think both points of view have some merit. For instance, I truely believe if we trade Smoove for Odom we might very well be a better team next year. Odon is a guy that brings alot to the table, but in the back of our mind we wouldn't enjoy the winning as much knowing that he is going to leave at the end of the season. For me being a fan is not only winning but knowing the future is bright. With Smoove there is the hope that someday that light comes on in his head and he maximizes his talent and leads the Hawks to great things.

However for Josh Smith he would give up Amir even though he is a project.

I like Tayshaun alot. I think his defense and smart play are the equal to Howards offense. The kicker to me is Amir. Bass is a nice bench player but there is not alot of potential there. Amir is a guy that COULD have a big upside and he has the size to play the 5 at some point.

You got to go with ease of schedule.

UGA has a hard schedule.

USC should walk past the whole Pac-10.

OSU never puts a hard team on the schedule. The big 10 is a joke.

OK has nobody on their schedule. They dodged Missouri and Texas is not going to be as strong..

I had not considered Bama. LSU gets consideration. Fla-GA will be the most watched.

There's room for an outsider like UH to get a shot, but I doubt it. It's another team in that conference that makes noise.

UH? Houston or Hawaii?