tmac13

Oh no. We don't need to put Morris in a position where he's the first big off the bench. We definitely need to keep ZaZa unless we can find someone to replace his size and experience in our rotation.

If Zaza is included in a deal with Smoove I am assuming a backup big is coming back to us who would take Zaza's place in the rotation.

At the price the Hawks paid it is a very good investment. He brings excellent size and a decent amount of potential. I would much rather have Morris at 850 grand than Kwame at 4 million per year. I don't know if anyone ever watched him at Kentucky but he has a nice offensive game around the basket. As a matter of fact I think he was clearly better offensively than Horford was in college. He needs to work on his defense and his intensity. He has clearly made poor choices in his past that have hampered his value. Tubby Smith was a horrible choice simply for his style of coaching. Tubby is a system coach and guys like Rondo and Morris simply didn't fit his style. Then Morris ended up with New York with an idiot like Isiah Thomas and lots of poor examples like Curry, James, Randolf and Marbury. I think Morris can learn alot from playing with guys like Bibby, JJ and Horford who bring it every game and try to play the game the right way.

The 2nd thing getting Morris might do is allow the Hawks to move Zaza in any potential deals that might come up. Zaza is a 4 million a year expiring deal that teams might feel better taking on than Speedy.

If Smoove was worth $14 mil to Philly, how is it that he should expect anything less than that from Atlanta? I would think his agents would be arguing that that's his true baseline worth, and that for ATL, there's even added benefit to them in marketing the local hometown success story... so, potentially, they could hold that $15 mil is the right price.

In the poll over the weekend, I voted that $15 mil was the top amount ASG ought to pay for his services, and I stand by that.

Smoove is not a max player. He has alot of talent but he also has gaping holes in his game. If Smoove would dedicate himself to being a real power foward and just accept the fact he is not a ball handler or long range shooter he may someday be a max player.. Smoove is a player with so many unknowns. Is he the guy that lit up the Celtics in games 3 and 4 or is he the player that basically quit in game 7. Max players need to bring it every game, not just when things are going well. If there was someway to tie in how smart and how hard he plays with incentives to raise his salary that might be the way to go with him.

All that being said the market has been set for him at 6 years and somewhere between 67 and 72 million.

I would rather pass it to an open Marvin from 15 feet that watch Smoove hoist up one of his 23 foot prayers.

I agree completely. I don't know how many times last year at Phillips I watched Smoove look directly at a wide open Marvin then decide to take the shot himself instead.

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/h...lph_morris.html

Good signing. Morris still has the potential to be a starting center in the NBA.. Working with guys like Joe Johnson and Horford will help him alot. He is known as a follower rather than a leader. Thats why the situation in New York was not at all good for his developement.

That's assuming that the plan is to keep Marvin past this year. Sund may look to move Marvin after acquiring Tayshaun or he may decide to simply use him in a SnT next season. The key to this deal is whether or not they believe Amir Johnson is ready to start or not. If we can start him at the 4 or 5 next to Horford then we can make a decision later on about what to do with either Tayshaun or Marvin, both of whom should have plenty of trade value.

Marvin and Tayshaun can also spend some time at the 4 without hurting the team. When Detroit went small they usually had Sheed at the 5 and Tayshaun at the 4.

What cracks me up is that Sekou thinks the Harrington idea originated on his blog.

It started at TwolvesCentral from a poster by the name of "banks."

He Mr. H. Do you have any info on any Laker or Detroit message boards other than at real gm? I would be interested in reading their take on the Smoove thing. thanks

Thats a whole lot of nothing.

If we trade Smoove for Prince/Johnson....there are no words for my feelings. You can't just draft and groom one of the best young guys in the league, fan favorite, team face, etc. and trade him for a bag of chips and a good fourth starter. We win 22 games with that lineup. Who is the 2nd offensive option??? Bibby? I don't think so. Joe gets tripled and throws to Bibby who puts up a brick...story of 08-09?

Prince is at least equal to Smoove offensively and is a better man on man defender. Prince was the 4th option on a great team and Smoove was the 2nd option by default on a below .500 team. Its not like Smoove is putting up 30 a game. For every great offensive game he has there is one equally bad. We may even bet better with a more consistant guy.

Both trades are lousy.

The Piston deal is only slightly better since we get a guy that MIGHT be able to play center and allow Horford to slide over to the PF.

If I were to bet, the Pistons' deal is the most likely one. Sund is obsessed with raw centers (see his drafts in Seattle).

Ife we do get Prince, I don't think he starts for the Hawks. Prince fills the Childress role, playing SF, SG, and PG for times. Yes, Woodson is obsessed with playing SFs a PGs (I think he wanted to play PG when he played, so now he plays that out with his players).

IMO, if we do the Detroit trade, Amir also becomes the starting center for the Hawks. They have to as the Hawks have no one else to play PF other than Horford. The other option is to start Prince at SF and use, gulp, Marvin as the starting PF.

Face it folks, the Hawks will be lucky to win 33 games next year, but more than likely they will slide back into the 20s. When Smith plays us, he'll put up 40/15 with 6 blocks.

I disagree that the team will go backwards this year. Both of the rumored trades bring back guys that will help us. Odom is a good player. He is a much better rebounder and passer than Smith. Prince is also a good player. Offensively I think both are at least equal to Smoove. Next year with either tarde the Hawks should continue to improve because guys like Bibby will be here all year and guys like Horf and Acie will get better. Its in 2 or 3 years the Hawks will feel losing Smoove as he is in his prime.

I can't see Smith being a very good fit for the triangle offense.

I doubt they care much about Smiths offense. At best he would be a distant 3rd option. Most likely they tell him to concentrate on defense and rebounding and get his points in the flow of the game. I bet he wouldn't be hoisting up the long jumpers there.

The part I wouldn't understand about getting Odom is whats in it for the Hawks? They still have to pay him a ton for basically a one year rental. They would be better off having Smith here cheaply for 1 year forcing him to take the qualifying offer. Maybe there are a couple of 1sts or someone else invilved.

Huh ?

I didn't address you, unless you have a second account by the nickname 'tmac13'. Also! I never said Solomon was better than Amir. Amir is better, but not by much at all. When I said "Amir has done nothing more than Solomon", I mean he's a bench rider who plays in garbage minutes. He's a raw athlete that can't find his way to the court. Sounds like Solomon, yeah ?

And I didn't address you but you responded to me. Its a message board, thats what people do, they respond. Lighten up. As far as the debate goes, we will have to agree to disagree. I won't change your mind and you won't change mine.

Amir Johnson hasn't done anything in the NBA. He may become a good player one day but right now he isn't any better than Solomon.

Solomon was a 4 year college guy and is nearly 25 years old. Amir is only 21. Amirs stats per minute are very good.

Here are some stats a real gm guy had on him..

"If you look at what Amir has done with the minutes he got, he did deserve more minutes. In fact, if you look at all his defensive efficiency numbers, they were the best on the team in terms of per possession. In terms of points per possession when a player was on the floor, Amir was #2 in the entire NBA. In terms of blocks vs. shots taken by the other team when Amir was on the floor, he was #1 in the entire NBA. In terms of the percentage of rebounds he came down with vs. the rebounds that were possible, he was in the top 10."

"I'm not a numbers guy but Amir passed both in terms of numbers and the eye ball test. In fact, I'd say he was even better when playing with the core players than he was in garbage time last year. Detroit's best defensive combination was Amir and Sheed...period.":

Also take into account the guys Amir played behind in Detroit vs. the guys Solomon has played behind and their is no comparison between the 2.

I agree.

Tayshaun Prince is good, but he's only a roleplayer, and I don't think I've seen Amir Johnson play for more than 5 minutes. Amir Johnson has done nothing more than Solomon Jones. Detroit has lost their mind if they think they can get Smoove for two nobodies.

(Ok, so maybe Prince isn't a nobody, but you get the point.)

Tayshaun averages 13 a game on a very good team where he is the 4th option. Smoove averages 17 a game on a below average team where he was the 2nd option. I think Tayshauns scoring would go up 3 or 4 points a game in Atlanta. Conversely I think if Smoove had been drafted by Detroit he would have been in a similar situation to Amir. He would have been behind the likes of Wallace and McDyss(sp) and would be much more of an unknown.

Guys...guys...this trade sucks. Prince is OK, and I would swap him for Marvin, but for the best defensive young big in the league after Howard????

Put down the dope, take a deep breath, and think clearly. :Shocked:

Its the Amir Johnson part of the trade that makes it appealing for me. By all accounts he is every bit the athlete Smoove is and except 2 inches taller and a year younger. Imagine an athlete like Smoove being tall enough to man the 5? As far as Prince goes he is rock steady and a proven winner. It would appear this trade is a decent value for Smith while giving Atlanta flexibility to still improve more.

That settles it for me then. Johnson and Prince for Smoove and Speedy. Marvin would then become one of the best, if not the best 6th men in the league.

I agree. The more I think about that deal the better I like it. We get a nice veteran 3 who plays excellent Defense and it a good clutch player and we get a young shotblocker to work into the 5. We then add Marvin ,Mo and Morris to the bench and we are young, big and deep. On top of that if its true we are signing Morris to a minimum 2 year deal we still have over 3 million left on the MLE to use on Kwame or another shooter. I like it.

If it's true that Atl thinks Al is gonna be the guy for us then the question becomes who will make him better. Would Smith? Odum or a young big who can help him down low? A guy like Perkins would be perfect. Would Amir Johnson fit that bill?

Amir is an interesting player. He is now apparently nearly 7 feet tall and extremely athletic. He is very skinny. I read somewhere his lack of playing time was one reason their coach was canned.

Think there is any chance in hedes that they offer Diop??????????

I am not sure he can be traded since he was just signed as someone elses free agent. I think you can trade your own guys you just resigned but may have to wait till December to trade any others..I may be wrong!

Ridiculous discussion!

So was the Chillz to Greece topic before it became a fact. It was totally dismissed by 75 percent on this board as just a negociating ploy. When will this group learn that with the ASG all bad things are possible.

Since most of the rumors of a SNT with Smoove seem to swirl around the Lakers with Odom and the Pistons with Prince I was wondering where each deal would leave the Hawks as a team this year. As much as we want Smooves return I wonder would the Hawks actually be a better team in the near future with either Odom or Prince.

Odom can do a little of everything. He is a good passer, scorer, and rebounder. He is usually very consistant and plays a smart brand of basketball. He is the shot blocker Smoove is but he is not terrible on defense. Prince is a very solid defender and a good passer. He seems to have the knack for hitting the big shot and grabbing the key rebound. He is also a very smart player. He is not nearly as explosive as Smoove but he very steady. I think either guy might actually improve the Hawks in the short term. I could see both meshing easily with Bibby. Joe, Marvin and Horf. All of our players would benefit from their smart play. Odom can play the 4 so he might be the better fit but Prince might come with Amir Johnson who has shown flashes of being special in his own right.

The downside is both guys are alot older than Smoove so the longterm looks a little bleaker.. Neither guy has Smooves potential to be a true superstar. Thoughts?

Supposedly he's actually around 6'11. I'm pretty sure I read that he grew two inches after the drafted him.

I don't know if he can play center right now, but I bet he'll be able to in a few years.

Your right..I found this from the Detroit trainer..

"In other Johnson news, A. Sherrod Blakely has an update on his official height:

Amir Johnson keeps on growing. Arnie Kander, Detroit’s strength and conditioning coach, said the 20-year-old is 6-foot-11 1/2. He was 6-9 in 2005 when the Pistons drafted him.

As we all know, his height has been a recurring topic of conversation amongst fans, but a measurement precise all the way down to half an inch has to be taken at face value, no? For those who remain unconvinced, I’ll add this: he definitely seemed to be the tallest player I spoke with at Media Day. Granted, I didn’t talk to Cheick Samb, but I was a part of the scrum surrounding Rasheed Wallace and I did talk one on one with Nazr Mohammed."

Looks like is is nearly a 7 footer. He is an outstanding athlete. This makes the Prince/Johnson trade a little more interesting.

Oh Puhleeze, It's funny how people seem to forget that Smoove isn't the only plater who has problems with woody. Smoove doesn't have any attitude problems. Funny people who don't even know him say that all the time... And honestly I'm positive Smoove doesn't let any of that bother him. :)

I am sure he is a great guy, but when guys get suspended for games because they yell at their coach that sends up a red flag to people who don't follow as closely as we do. When guys continue to play outside of their talent and hoist up long jumpers they usually can't hit it sends up a red flag. Sorry but that is a fact, and I am saying this being a huge Smoove proponent.

http://blog.mlive.com/fullcourtpress/2008/...trade_migh.html

If the teams are LA and Detroit (what most pundits believe) whats a better deal for Atlanta?

Prince/Amir or Lamar and dumping Claxton (maybe getting Farmar or Mihm).

Right away - the fact LO is a PF and it frees up Marvin Williams to start makes me think LA has the edge however a project center like Amir may be what Atlanta craves more. In an LA deal, Atl would have more salary freedom too.

Can Amir play center? He is only 6'9" and 225. Thats awfully small for a 5.

Smoove has an attitude problem???? :huh:

Where has you been? Woody has had more than one incident with Smoove. Woody has sat Smoove because of them. I am not saying its all true but there is a perception of that with alot of the "casual fans".