davis171

24 minutes ago, KB21 said:

The difference between Kanter and Okafor is the difference between a rotational guy who is overpaid because of where he was drafted and a complete bust, but that is neither here nor there.  Either way, that outcome is not what you want out of a top 5 pick, IMO.  

Dude you are a genius why aren't you in an NBA front office somewhere!

30 minutes ago, KB21 said:

It wouldn't be the first time.  Every NBA scout was wrong, and I was right on Andrew Wiggins and Jabari Parker as well.

It's hard for me to have faith in NBA scouts when they take Andrew Wiggins and Markelle Fultz with the first pick when there were obvious weaknesses.

You may still be wrong on Jabari and Wiggins they are both under 24. Jabari is only 22!

8 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Being one of the better center prospects to come out in a while would put him up there with Karl Anthony Towns, Joel Embiid, and Anthony Davis, and he's not nearly at the level those guys were defensively when they came into the league.  You can hide a bad perimeter defender.  You can't hide a bad post defender.  

He may very well end up being Karl Anthony Towns on offense, but he's closer to Jahlil Okafor on defense.

Yup every NBA scout is wrong and you are right.

29 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

It's not a hard question man.  Who do you think we can get in the offseason?

Millsap was a baller in Utah.  DMC has always been solid, but never a deadeye shooter, so he was a surprise.

So . . . once again . . what significant player do you think we can get in the offseason, and why?

DMC was averaging 6pts 3 rbd and less than 1 ass stl and blocks when atlanta signed him so you are wrong again that is a borderline NBA player stat wise. Sap was pushed out of Utah and signed for under a sixth of the cap those are the moves the hawks need to make not paying a non all star Center to a fourth of your cap as I have said multiple times it is okay to be wrong dude. I think as also stated before I like the idea of Will Barton, Donte Exum and Mario Hezojona if willing to come on team friendly deals. https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/6/30/4454510/2013-nba-free-agents-ranking-list-dwight-howard-chris-paul and https://www.si.com/nba/photos/2012/09/18nbas-top-2013-free-agents-10-1#10 (at least his picture is in this one!) I will remind you Paul wasn't even considered a top 10 FA that offseason.

This offseason in the draft we can find a young player with upside and find pieces that fit him to grow him up the best way possible. So you go into this offseason old and way over the cap what moves are you making to improve your maybe 8 seed hawks trade away all your draft assets like we did with THJ and lose players like Kelly Oubre Jr. who aren't immediately ready. Jimmy Butler was the 30th pick of the draft you guys are so dilutional to think the hawks took on cap to try and save money (there is a minimum amount of the cap you have to spend) so that's just not knowing NBA rules. Under your scenario I'll give you the 8 seed we are picking 15th Meaning netting you Dzanan Musa, Robert Williams, Anrenee Simmions is your help. You think that a team a year older with no value is going to help.

31 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Coaching was the reason.  No way should Moose have received those minutes in the playoffs.

And who are we playing for in this offseason?  Who is the target in this offseason that we can realistically get?

Let me rephrase that question.  Who is the guy that you think that we can realistically get?

Did you think DMC and Sap were going to be as good as they were here.

19 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

It was dumb coaching on the part of Bud.  Howard averaged 30 minutes a game during the regular season.   Bud tried to get cute, and give Moose extended minutes during the playoffs.  It backfired severely, because Gortat pretty much used him every time he entered the game.  By Game 3, Dwight and the boys had neutralized Gortat.

And once again . . . if Howard was so terrible, why did we trade him for a worse player, and a contract that lasted longer than Dwight's?

You didn't just say 30 mpg you said 30+ mpg he was 5th in minutes played in the playoffs and paid a fourth of the cap please explain? Because we broke up his salary to be players in fa this offseason I told you.

19 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

If we were going to be a very bad team with Dwight, why did we make the deal?  

Plumlee's contract went 1 year longer than Dwight's.   So you mean that we sacrificed the chance to have 23 million come off the books in the Summer of 2019, to have a net of 10 million come off this season, and just 10 million next season?   Or did you forget that we still owe Plumlee 25 million over the next 2 years?

Charlotte hornets 2018 nba champions led by Dwight Howard they will not loose a game the rest of the year! Dude you said he would be playing 30+ min per game if Al had come back why was he playing 25 mpg in the playoffs and rarely in the 4th if you remember?

3 hours ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

The Hawks didn't struggle to trade Dwight.  They basically dumped him for scraps to make the team bad.   

That "non All-Star" last year led the Hawks in PER ( 20.8 ) . . Win Share - ( 8.3 )  . . WS/48 ( .181 ) - and was 2nd on the team in Value Over Replacement Player ( VORP ) - 2.7.  Dwight more than did his job here last year and was easily a top 3 center in the East last season. 

What he couldn't control, was how the guards couldn't make simple entry passes in the post to him.  Nor could he control the decisions of the coach not to get him more touches in the post during the playoffs, who valued shooting over legit post play and rebounding.  Bud's coaching during that playoff series vs Washington last year, was atrocious.  Just like it was the previous season, when he couldn't figure out that a tough big like Kris Humphries might have some value, over the better shooting, but much weaker Muscala.  In both instances, he bet on Moose . . and lost.

Even this season, the lack of post touches by Collins this season should scare everyone.  Collins was not only a gifted Pick and Roll player in college, he was very good in the post.  The fact that Collins has only received the ball a total of 22 times in the post this season, is one of the biggest travesties of the season.  How does a player who was one of the most efficient scorers in college basketball, not get to play to his strengths?  So the question now is, can Bud properly develop Collins to his maximum potential?  I truly can't say definitely YES to that question.

 

This takes us to the draft.   I never said that Sexton was a better draft prospect than Ayton or Doncic.  What I do know though, is that if there's any type of player that Bud can develop in his system, it's point guard.  I thought he did a real good job with Teague, by turning him into a more aggressive floor leader that could knock down the 3. 

I hate that Dennis' full development was pretty much wasted this season, because we couldn't have him be "too good" in order to preserve the "tank".  But Bud has done a good job with Dennis.   I had serious doubts that he could get his shot off without space, when he came into the league.  Dennis has worked on his midrange game extensively, and has become a pretty good midrange shooter, even if his long range shooting has tailed off big time since November.

So when you look at this draft, I think that Bud could have the most success developing either Sexton, or Trae Young over the big guys.

 

Trae Young

As much as Young has struggled in Big 12 play, I think the open floor game of the NBA, along with playing alongside much better players, could help Young's game.   People talk about his shooting and shot making, which was definitely eye popping early in the season.  But to me, his best attribute is his passing.  That dude can pass his ass off.  He has Lonzo Ball type vision.   He can make anybody he's playing with, into a better player.  A Pick and Roll attack of Collins and Young, could be lethal.

The big knock on Trae, to me, is his ability to be a leader when he's struggling.  It's almost to the point that opposing PGs are "punking" him.  And his defense is atrocious.  Overall, he has to become physically and mentally tougher.   Once Big 12 coaches really challenged their PGs to really pressure Trae defensively on the ball, he somewhat folded up.  And Lon Krueger did Trae no favors, because once he gave the ball up, he wasn't moving Trae around in the offense to free him up for open shots.  Trae, under better coaching, could be an absolute monster in the NBA.  The shooting, court vison and the range on his shot, cannot be overlooked in today's NBA.  

 

Collin Sexton

Being "punked" is NOT an issue for Collin Sexton.  This dude is a DOG, in the fact that he's going to keep coming at you on both ends of the floor.  He has a Russell Westbrook mentality, without all of the bad shot selection that Russell takes.  Avery Johnson has done a great job in harnessing Collin's aggressiveness.  He doesn't let him completely freelance like Kruger has Young doing, but he does give Collin enough freedom in the offense to show off all of his skill set.

At 6-3, he's as quick and explosive as any guard in college basketball.   It would be VERY INTERESTING to see he and Dennis in a lineup together, running Pick and Roll on either side of the court, much like what James Harden and Chris Paul does in Houston.  Now I'm in NO WAY comparing those 2 to Harden and Paul, but the effect on the Hawks offense could be truly dynamic, when you basically have to guard two guys who can break you completely down off the dribble.  Bud has shown in his tenure in ATL, that he likes the 2 PG attack at times.   So whether Sexton is starting, or coming off the bench, an in-game lineup of . .

Schröder - Sexton - Bazemore - Prince - Collins

 . . would be one of the more interesting lineups, from a speed and attacking standpoint, that the Hawks could throw at people next season.  Most important, it would take the ball handling decisions COMPLETELY out of Baze's hands, and turn him more into a spot up shooter . . which he's done pretty well this season.  If it's proven that Dennis and Collin couldn't play with each other, we now have the option to flip Dennis for a better fitting player . . . ala what Golden State did with Monta Ellis.

 

At the end of the day, I trust Bud more with the point guards, than I do with the bigs.  

Doncic is a guard soooo

39 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

The Hawks didn't struggle to trade Dwight.  They basically dumped him for scraps to make the team bad.   

That "non All-Star" last year led the Hawks in PER ( 20.8 ) . . Win Share - ( 8.3 )  . . WS/48 ( .181 ) - and was 2nd on the team in Value Over Replacement Player ( VORP ) - 2.7.  Dwight more than did his job here last year and was easily a top 3 center in the East last season. 

What he couldn't control, was how the guards couldn't make simple entry passes in the post to him.  Nor could he control the decisions of the coach not to get him more touches in the post during the playoffs, who valued shooting over legit post play and rebounding.  Bud's coaching during that playoff series vs Washington last year, was atrocious.  Just like it was the previous season, when he couldn't figure out that a tough big like Kris Humphries might have some value, over the better shooting, but much weaker Muscala.  In both instances, he bet on Moose . . and lost.

Even this season, the lack of post touches by Collins this season should scare everyone.  Collins was not only a gifted Pick and Roll player in college, he was very good in the post.  The fact that Collins has only received the ball a total of 22 times in the post this season, is one of the biggest travesties of the season.  How does a player who was one of the most efficient scorers in college basketball, not get to play to his strengths?  So the question now is, can Bud properly develop Collins to his maximum potential?  I truly can't say definitely YES to that question.

 

This takes us to the draft.   I never said that Sexton was a better draft prospect than Ayton or Doncic.  What I do know though, is that if there's any type of player that Bud can develop in his system, it's point guard.  I thought he did a real good job with Teague, by turning him into a more aggressive floor leader that could knock down the 3. 

I hate that Dennis' full development was pretty much wasted this season, because we couldn't have him be "too good" in order to preserve the "tank".  But Bud has done a good job with Dennis.   I had serious doubts that he could get his shot off without space, when he came into the league.  Dennis has worked on his midrange game extensively, and has become a pretty good midrange shooter, even if his long range shooting has tailed off big time since November.

So when you look at this draft, I think that Bud could have the most success developing either Sexton, or Trae Young over the big guys.

 

Trae Young

As much as Young has struggled in Big 12 play, I think the open floor game of the NBA, along with playing alongside much better players, could help Young's game.   People talk about his shooting and shot making, which was definitely eye popping early in the season.  But to me, his best attribute is his passing.  That dude can pass his ass off.  He has Lonzo Ball type vision.   He can make anybody he's playing with, into a better player.  A Pick and Roll attack of Collins and Young, could be lethal.

The big knock on Trae, to me, is his ability to be a leader when he's struggling.  It's almost to the point that opposing PGs are "punking" him.  And his defense is atrocious.  Overall, he has to become physically and mentally tougher.   Once Big 12 coaches really challenged their PGs to really pressure Trae defensively on the ball, he somewhat folded up.  And Lon Krueger did Trae no favors, because once he gave the ball up, he wasn't moving Trae around in the offense to free him up for open shots.  Trae, under better coaching, could be an absolute monster in the NBA.  The shooting, court vison and the range on his shot, cannot be overlooked in today's NBA.  

 

Collin Sexton

Being "punked" is NOT an issue for Collin Sexton.  This dude is a DOG, in the fact that he's going to keep coming at you on both ends of the floor.  He has a Russell Westbrook mentality, without all of the bad shot selection that Russell takes.  Avery Johnson has done a great job in harnessing Collin's aggressiveness.  He doesn't let him completely freelance like Kruger has Young doing, but he does give Collin enough freedom in the offense to show off all of his skill set.

At 6-3, he's as quick and explosive as any guard in college basketball.   It would be VERY INTERESTING to see he and Dennis in a lineup together, running Pick and Roll on either side of the court, much like what James Harden and Chris Paul does in Houston.  Now I'm in NO WAY comparing those 2 to Harden and Paul, but the effect on the Hawks offense could be truly dynamic, when you basically have to guard two guys who can break you completely down off the dribble.  Bud has shown in his tenure in ATL, that he likes the 2 PG attack at times.   So whether Sexton is starting, or coming off the bench, an in-game lineup of . .

Schröder - Sexton - Bazemore - Prince - Collins

 . . would be one of the more interesting lineups, from a speed and attacking standpoint, that the Hawks could throw at people next season.  Most important, it would take the ball handling decisions COMPLETELY out of Baze's hands, and turn him more into a spot up shooter . . which he's done pretty well this season.  If it's proven that Dennis and Collin couldn't play with each other, we now have the option to flip Dennis for a better fitting player . . . ala what Golden State did with Monta Ellis.

 

At the end of the day, I trust Bud more with the point guards, than I do with the bigs.  

30 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

It's exactly what he did though.

If you're going to bottom the team out, any deal made for Dwight had to be one that DIDN'T improve the team, but made it worse.  And if you had to take on a bad contract to do it, so be it . . . in his eyes.

It's an indication that Schlenk intends on playing the lottery for MULTIPLE years, not just one year.  

Put it like this . . . if we draft one of the bigs, do you think Plumlee even is in the rotation next season?  Especially if we cut a deal to bring back Dedmon?

Hahahahahahahaha I'm crying if you actually believe any of this.

27 minutes ago, KB21 said:

We took on his salary for a first round pick that will do nothing to help this team win and may not even be a long term part of this team.

But again, it is a short term sacrifice to take money on this year only to have that slot filled with a late first round rookie deal in future years.  It was clearly a future cost control move.

That makes 0 sense lmao

16 minutes ago, KB21 said:

It was a short term sacrifice to get rid of a big money contract that would have come off in 2 years anyway.  Wait and see.  The Hawks will not sign anyone of significance this year, and they will look to offload Kent Bazemore's contract and Dennis Schröder's contract in the process, claiming that it helps with their cap flexibility that they will not use.  

We pretty much bought the rockets pick this year by trading for and realeasing Jamal Crawford is what I was referring to. We took on his salary for a first round pick that doesn't seem like an organization trying to pinch pennies.

6 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Ownership is only on board because this pathway can help control roster costs and allows for more profit with the recent increases in revenue the club has had.  

How can you say that when we took on extra salary this past offseason we didn't have to? What proof do you have? You just are wrong but everyone is sometimes.

19 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Yeah.

Schlenk's plan is to lose a lot of games for the next five years, and then convince ownership that he should give 25% of the cap to some young kid that hasn't helped the team win.

Well ownership agrees with his plan whatever it may be; so just maybe you should shut up until he is actually in a position to execute it. Bud, who was one of the worst Presidents ever, let the most valuable asset on the team in Horford go for no compensation and signed a non All-star big to a $70 million contract. Sap is also on Bud because giving a third of your cap to him is asinine if it maybe gets you get swept in the first round if you make it at all he should have been traded. Bud is the one who traded Teague and Korver and handed the ship to Schröder not Schlenk you are just wrong dude. Schlenk was left with table scraps and decided it is not in the hawks best interest to give a third of your cap to a boarderline all star that can't take you anywhere and I 100% agree. BTW Bud also traded away Kelly Oubre for THJ who isn't on the team anymore. You think that the hawks could use a 22 yr old 6'7 wing averaging 12ppg 5rbd while shooting 35% from 3 and making 2 million next year all on Bud not Schlenk.

42 minutes ago, Diesel said:

The Lottery is not the only path to a championship.   In fact, I don't think it's been proven that having a lottery player means anything being that just about every NBA team has one. 

Moreover, since Lebron was on Kyrie's team and Duncan was on Robinson's team...   Hmm... that sounds more like 2. 

The draft is fool's gold.   Period.  It's not the WAY to the title.   The way to the title is by team building and having a plan.   Lottery players will come.  They always do.  It takes extraordinary circumstances to tank and win a title.   Extraordinary... and it takes transcendent generational players too. 

So let's look into the future.   We will be bad, we will get high draft picks for the next few years.. and we may be lucky to get back to mediocrity... and the tankers here will say.. Schlenk is just another bad GM who didn't know how to draft.  or We knew that this could happen or some BS that denies the fact that tanking doesn't win championships. 

Duncan as a rookie 100% did not lead that team. So Schlenk finds John Collins at 19 and you are assuming he doesn't know how to draft he is 1for 1 in my book? Do you really think that Ressler hired Schlenk without a plan? You REALLY think Schlenk came to his interview here and said hire me I have no idea how to help you guys win in the future. Schlenk 100% has a plan and it involves not making the guy playing the 5th most minutes by the end of the season (Dwight Howard) a fourth of your cap. So yeah you may not agree with his plan but he has one that the hawks organization liked enough to hire.

33 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

The entire purpose of signing Dwight, was to see if his presence would help a team who got MURDERED on the boards in the 2015 - 16 season.   Had Horford not got his panties in a bunch, we go into last season with a Horford - Millsap - Howard rotation on the frontline.  The decision would've had to been made to either start Millsap at SF, or bring Howard off the bench.  In either case, all 3 of those players are playing 30+ minutes a game, and probably finishing the game together ( unless the Hawks are leading a close game, in which Dwight would be pulled ).

The acquisition was the correct one to make in the summer of 2016 season.  And with Dwight only signed to 3 years, you could see if that lineup could work for a few years, before pulling the trigger and trading him ( or one of the other two ) in year 3.

As for Sap being 33 years old, that means nothing in the grand scheme of things.  If the goal was to keep the Millsap - Howard frontline together, while the young perimeter kids grow around them, paying those guys isn't the end of the world.  Collins ( if drafted ), would've benefited tremendously from both Millsap and Howard, turning him into a much better player than even what he is right now.

But that's water under the bridge now.  No vets on the team that can teach the young guys how to play.   25 point blowout losses make all of you smile.

All it does for me, is make me not want to watch them.  Just need to fast forward to lottery night, to see where we pick.   Hopefully it's somewhere outside the top 5, so that we can draft one of the guards, preferably Collin Sexton.

Okay no signing Dwight who isn't an all star anymore to anything more than 10-12 million makes no since imo and that's why the hawks struggled to trade him. Sap's contract would have meant no cap space this coming off season so what you going to do to improve your maybe 8 seed hawks? Also in what fantasyland is Sexton a better prospect than Doncic and Ayton. I guarantee you you are a hawks fan that'll boo Doncic purely because he isn't from America. He has played against Kristaps Porzingus, Pau Gasol, Bojan Bogdonavic, Dario Saric, Lauri Markkenan, Tomas Sanoransky, Evan Fournier, etc this past summer and averaged 14pts 8rbd 4 ass if you don't want that idk what to tell you. Also Dwight didn't even average 30 min a game last year so no you're just wrong. He averaged 25 mpg in the playoffs

Lmao love the line up rn Magette, Dorsey, Morris, Moose, Plumlee. Bud wants Doncic bad.

6 minutes ago, hazer said:

As one of the resident optimists, I’d like to believe this is probably on Schlenkholzer’s mind. Especially with Bud’s hand in landing Kawhi for the Spurs, his coooeration on the Splitter deal, and my assumption that he’s dreaming of Doncic.

I'd like to knock on the door but you can't make the move if he is going to bolt for LA in a year. If not sign some interesting targets in FA that slip through big deals draft well like last year and continue to build for the future.

The west is also significantly harder to make the playoffs than the east js. What is the longest playoff drought in the east I think Philadelphia at 5 years who will make it this year.

I'm sure they would be interested but 1)Kawhi would have to decline the supermax 2) Kawhi would have to be traded 3) Kawhi has to agree to sign longterm in ATL.

2 hours ago, Diesel said:

Childress, Shelden, Acie, and Marvin were all bad picks.   Marvin was the highest pick this franchise has ever made.   When people come up and say well that was Billy knight and he was an idiot, I remember that many of the same posters were in agreement with the Marvin Williams pick.   So they have no place in hindsight to stand. 

Back to the point, 20% chance of getting an allstar type player.  None of them were flipped for the players that got us on the winning side of things. Ferry won out in FAcy.  not trade.  not the draft.   Based on his trades thus far, I don't think that Schlenk is capable of winning in trades or FAcy.  He doesn't even have a plan on what he's trying to build.  He just wants a shot at the high picks in the draft.   That my friend is the recipe to treadmill. 

 

 

So how is resigning a 33 year old PF for a third of your cap being being FA savy? Bud was the guy that let Horford walk with no compensation as well as Sap not Schlenk. Dwight at 23 million is not being savy in FA that ties almost a forth of your cap into a non all-star at this point big nobody wants that. Ferry and Schlenk would have traded both Sap and Horford had they not agreed to team friendly extensions before the deadline Ferryand Schlenk would have sent them out for positive assets or just let the contract expire. The entire team was just intriguing FA on team friendly deals.  http://www.basketballinsiders.com/atlanta-hawks-team-salary/atlanta-hawks-salary-archive-201415/ Please explain   ALSO Ferry and Schlenk would never have signed Dwight Howard to a $70 million deal

1 hour ago, Diesel said:

You also said:

When I mentioned  Boston, I wanted you to see the difference between FAcy and Trades.   Ainge traded for both Allen and KG.  They didn't have a real choice in saying.. I want to go to Boston and play with Pierce.  In fact, KG hated the idea.  

Whereas, you talk about Lebron.  Lebron holds summits, pick the players who he wants to play with and holds his teams hostage by signing 1 year deals.   There's a difference.  Lebron can't be traded easily and he doesn't go where he doesn't want to go.  Secondly, lottery picks aren't as inticing to other teams as you think.  How many times have an established star in this league been traded for a lottery pick? Usually, an established star is traded for a package.  So what's our package going to be?  The first and Dennis?  The first and Collins?  I keep hearing Prince's name come up but Prince has negative value right now.  He's a project that you have to pay.

If only we could match our first with a guy like Millsap or THJr or even D8.  While those guys are vets, they could have gotten us something of value back.

100% the main asset in The trade for Kyrie Irving was the Nets pick. No one would trade for Sap on a 30 million deal because the hawks won't want incoming cap unless you are willing to attach several picks. Sap at 30 million a year is a bad deal. Dwight at 23 million a year is a bad deal. Hardaway at 70 million is a bad deal.

So wait you wanted Hardaway back at 70 million!!! You have no since for the cap. Why Would Ressler go way over the cap to maybe make the playoffs.

2 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Boston used veterans to build it back up.  Thomas, Crowder, Horford....all veterans, and all are the reason the Celtics only had the one down season.  That's not a tank.  Tanking teams blow things up and try to build with lottery picks.  

You had no response to my post dude. Went from a 40+ win playoff team with PP and KG to a 25 win team without them what do you call that?

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

On the contrary, Memphis is down because of injuries, and they will be adding a top pick to a team that has a healthy Marc Gasol and Mike Conley, two players who can show the young pups what it takes to win in the NBA. 

With Travis's plan, the Hawks young players will have....each other....and will learn how to win from God knows who.

Memphis has 3-4 NBA level players on their entire roster and 0 cap space they will not be good next year.

1 minute ago, KB21 said:

It may not have been said, but it is clearly implied.  I can just as easily say that every championship team has added veteran players to their roster to get them to that championship point.  But good luck trying to build a championship team out of an expansion level roster with a bunch of underdeveloped rookies.

You mean memphis