DawsonsCreek

Quote: Quote: It was just a fantasy which would you rather have. Nothing more. Easy to lose sight of that in a 100 post thread. W I hear ya.

Quote: Quote: It's done exo. Debating over .3 on either side is where it ends. Good stuff It was over when you had to resort to making stuff up and pretending i said it. I only made the marvin williams example because you brought in the childress example. Like I said I enjoyed it and Ill leave it at that. Im ready for a new topic.

Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Does Josh Smith average a double double a game exo? No. Horford didn't average a double double either. He didnt average a double double exo? Are you taking .3 away from me? LOL. you are silly man. If thats the case dont round up Smiths numbers. Im still taking AL over Smith. A double double is at least 10/10. 9.7 doesn't qualify. I haven't rounded up Smith's numbers. If i wanted to play that game i could say Smith is a 20/10 player. Heres your quote from earlier today.... Averaging 10 ppg shooting 50% while being constantly unguarded from 15 feet is much easier than averaging 18 shooting 46% while going up against the best interior defenders on the opposing teams. 46 percent is not .457 (which was his actual percentage) but yet when I round up its not ok. Quit reaching exo..... I didn't even remember what his scoring average was. I corrected it later in the thread after looking it up. And you are the one saying that Horford averaged a double double and Smith didn't. You have said over and over that horford averaged a double double when in fact he didn't. Now that you mention it Horford didn't shoot 50% either. Bottom line is that Smiths stats >>> than Horford's. You remembered what his scoring average was. You just called out on some petty BS that you were trying to serve. We can go on and on exo. You would rather have Josh and I would rather have AL. Thats just what it is. Here is what i posted in post # 12488. Quote: The whole story is... Smith scored 7ppg more during the season and also outscored Horford in the playoffs even though he was going against the DPOY. Smith had more assists than turnovers on the season. Horford had more turnovers than assists on the season. The Hawks gave up 7 ppg fewer when Smith was playing. The Hawks gave up just as many points when Horford was playing as when he was on the bench. Do you know what 10 + 7 equals? It's done exo. Debating over .3 on either side is where it ends. Good stuff

Quote: Quote: It would not be ridicululous to say that you (GMs) would keep Al over Smoove. Al has two things in his favor. He rebounds slightly better and he's a "4.25" (Pf/C) rather than a "3.5" (PF/Sf). Otherwise JS is better with a higher ceiling. JS's TENDEX the last two years was higher than Horford's rookie TENDEX per48 and his playoff TENDEX was higher. In short, JS was (and since then has been) better than Horford a year younger and less experienced than Horford. However, I don't get the issue here. Both are KEEPERS and unless we get an outrageous deal for either both should be kept and either a post option 4.5 to play along Horford at the 4, JS at the 3 or a true defensive 5 to come off the bench should follow. Our trade bait consists of MW, Childress, Bibby, ZaZa, and possibly Law. W It was just a fantasy which would you rather have. Nothing more.

Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Does Josh Smith average a double double a game exo? No. Horford didn't average a double double either. He didnt average a double double exo? Are you taking .3 away from me? LOL. you are silly man. If thats the case dont round up Smiths numbers. Im still taking AL over Smith. A double double is at least 10/10. 9.7 doesn't qualify. I haven't rounded up Smith's numbers. If i wanted to play that game i could say Smith is a 20/10 player. Heres your quote from earlier today.... Averaging 10 ppg shooting 50% while being constantly unguarded from 15 feet is much easier than averaging 18 shooting 46% while going up against the best interior defenders on the opposing teams. 46 percent is not .457 (which was his actual percentage) but yet when I round up its not ok. Quit reaching exo..... I didn't even remember what his scoring average was. I corrected it later in the thread after looking it up. And you are the one saying that Horford averaged a double double and Smith didn't. You have said over and over that horford averaged a double double when in fact he didn't. Now that you mention it Horford didn't shoot 50% either. Bottom line is that Smiths stats >>> than Horford's. You remembered what his scoring average was. You just called out on some petty BS that you were trying to serve. We can go on and on exo. You would rather have Josh and I would rather have AL. Thats just what it is.

Quote: Quote: Second of all, according to you Marvin is a better player then AL because he scores more points. Not to interrupt, but THIS is a reach. Show me where Ex. said or insinuated anything even close to that statement. Thats based on his theory that scoring more points makes someone the better player. Because with his theory on FG percentage, he automatically assumes that I think Childress is a better player then Joe Johnson (because he shoots a higher percentage) which is insane. You follow?

Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Does Josh Smith average a double double a game exo? No. Horford didn't average a double double either. He didnt average a double double exo? Are you taking .3 away from me? LOL. you are silly man. If thats the case dont round up Smiths numbers. Im still taking AL over Smith. A double double is at least 10/10. 9.7 doesn't qualify. I haven't rounded up Smith's numbers. If i wanted to play that game i could say Smith is a 20/10 player. Heres your quote from earlier today.... Averaging 10 ppg shooting 50% while being constantly unguarded from 15 feet is much easier than averaging 18 shooting 46% while going up against the best interior defenders on the opposing teams. 46 percent is not .457 (which was his actual percentage) but yet when I round up its not ok. Quit reaching exo.....

Quote: Quote: Tell the whole story Exo. Post # The whole story? First of all Horford didn't average a double double. Secondly a players ability to create his own shots plays a great role in how many shots he gets. JJ can create his own shot routinely. Childress can't. Hence JJ takes far more shots than Childress. Smith can create his own shots far better than Horford. Smith can actually take guys off the dribble. Horford is too scared to even try. First of all here you are taking .3 away from AL Horford cause you are hating. Your just reaching. Second of all, according to you Marvin is a better player then AL because he scores more points. Third Josh Smith shoots under 31 percent from 3 point range for 4 years (384 attempts later) yet all i hear about is his driving ability. But yet when Al shoots 50 percent (OH OH EXCUSE ME .499) I hear its because he plays closer to the basket.

Quote: Quote: Does Josh Smith average a double double a game exo? No. Horford didn't average a double double either. He didnt average a double double exo? Are you taking .3 away from me? LOL. you are silly man. If thats the case dont round up Smiths numbers. Im still taking AL over Smith.

Quote: Quote: Al had 25 double double games. Nobody has put up the all around numbers that Smith did this year since Hakeem and DRob. He was the only guy in the NBA in the top 10 in blocks and steals. Quote: And your childress comment is comical It was on par with your comment about shot attempts, as if Horford was somehow being held back from taking shots. Quote: BTW I dont know if you new this but Smith had 26 turnovers in the playoffs. He was also being guarded by the DPOY, not Kendrick Perkins. Excuses excuses exodus. Turnovers have been the story of Josh Smith last 2 years, not just the playoffs. Yeah your childress comment makes no sense because even Zaza shot a higher percentage then JJ. And Im prepared to say Zaza is a better player???? So under your formula Marvin averages almost 5 points more then Horford and so therefore hes the better player? Cmon now. Tell the whole story Exo.

Quote: Quote: I guess double digit boards doesnt mean anything to you because you neglected to mention that. I also didn't mention blocks where Smith is number 2 in the NBA. Quote: You would rather focus on how Josh smith averages 2 more assists then AL. You were the one saying Smith is turnover prone yet Horford is the one who has more turnovers than assists, not Smith. Quote: When you shoot 1,133 shots compared to 668 exo, I hope you would avg 7 more points per game. JJ takes more shots than Childress so i guess if Childress took as many shots as JJ he would score just as many points, right? Smith can actually create shots for himself. Horford can't even beat big slow stiffs off the dribble. Does Josh Smith average a double double a game exo? No. Al had 25 double double games. And your childress comment is comical why dont you throw zazas name while your at it. BTW I dont know if you knew this but Smith had 26 turnovers in the playoffs. Smith cant even figure out out in 4 years that he cant shoot over 31 percent from 3 pt range.

Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda. Deal with what actually took place. Josh Smith didnt do much in those last 3 games but yet Al "wouldn't" either in your fantasy scenario. Why are you just talking about the last 3 games i wonder? You do realize the series was 7 games right? What actually took place is that is that Smith outperformed Horford on both ends by a mile all season long. You wanted to choose games 3 and 4 to point out how many points Smith scored but you ask me about why I bring up the last 3 games of the series? Gotta tell the other side of the story exo. The whole story is... Smith scored 7ppg more during the season and also outscored Horford in the playoffs even though he was going against the DPOY. Smith had more assists than turnovers on the season. Horford had more turnovers than assists on the season. The Hawks gave up 7 ppg fewer when Smith was playing. The Hawks gave up just as many points when Horford was playing as when he was on the bench. When you shoot 1,133 shots compared to 668 exo, I hope you would avg 7 more points per game. I guess double digit boards doesnt mean anything to you because you neglected to mention that. You would rather focus on how Josh smith averages 2 more assists then AL.

Quote: Quote: This is not specifically directed at you but when Marvin is the topic, all that matters is that he has been in the league for 3 years not how old he is relative to the person he is being compared to. That said, I think that Horford CERTAINLY gained some maturity and strength in college that Smoove didn't have as a rookie and I'm sure that was a BIG reason he was better. STILL, I think that ALL rookies, including those who play all 4 years, have a steep learning curve coming into the NBA and I think that Horford will be SIGNIFICANTLY better this coming season than he was last season. I agree with this, but I think rookies who spent 3 or 4 years in college should be expected to make a big jump (or at leat a bigger jump then a prep-to-pro or one-and-done rookie) in their second seasons. Hopefully Horford and Acie make big strides in their second seasons. I hope Acie makes big strides this year. Loved the potential he showed at times this past year. He gets the keys to drive this thing if he has a big year.

Quote: It's actually 5 years, $60M with incentives that could possibly bring it up to $72M. Marvin will likely look for closer to $50M, IMHO. We been through our ups and downs with Marvin. He could have a killer year and the price will go up (if atl waits which I think they will) or he could not progress at all and he still will be labeled an underachiever and they either wouldnt resign him or bring him in for a fair price. So many things for the Hawks to consider in the next few years.

Quote: Quote: Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda. Deal with what actually took place. Josh Smith didnt do much in those last 3 games but yet Al "wouldn't" either in your fantasy scenario. Why are you just talking about the last 3 games i wonder? You do realize the series was 7 games right? What actually took place is that is that Smith outperformed Horford on both ends by a mile all season long. You wanted to choose games 3 and 4 to point out how many points Smith scored but you ask me about why I bring up the last 3 games of the series? Gotta tell the other side of the story exo.

Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: But yet shooting 50 percent in the nba while starting at center averaging double figure points (while boarding double digits) is EASY, Averaging 10 ppg shooting 50% while being constantly unguarded from 15 feet is much easier than averaging 18 shooting 46% while going up against the best interior defenders on the opposing teams. It wasn't Horford who dropped 56 pts shooting 57% against the DPOY in games 3 & 4. Horford is very turnover prone considering how little he actually does with the ball. For his first few weeks of the season he had more turnovers than field goals. The reason Al is the 4th or 5th option on offense is because his offensive ability isn't as good as 4 or 5 other players. It also wasn't Al who turned the ball over 15 times in the last 3 games against Boston or went 4 for 13, 3 for 8, or 3 for 11 either. With those kinda numbers maybe we should have reconsidered the 4th and 5th offensive options. Horford can't even beat Big Z off the dribble. How can he be anything other than the 4th or 5th option? Put KG on Horford and Perkins on Smith and what happens? Smith abuses Perkins off the dribble while Horford gets maybe 6-7 ppg if he's lucky. Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda. Deal with what actually took place. Josh Smith didnt do much in those last 3 games but yet Al "wouldn't" either in your fantasy scenario.

Quote: Quote: ridicululous to say that you would keep Al over Smoove. In fact, I would bet that a SIGNIFICANT number of GMs in the league would take Al over Smoove RIGHT NOW. GM's value potential and while Smoove was more productive LAST year, Al was a FAR better rookie than Smoove was. It's not even close. Right now, Smoove is better than Durant too but I'll bet you that OKC wouldn't even THINK about trading Durant to us for Smoove. It is okay to disagree but calling it RIDICULOUS is way off base in my opinion. I said it was ridiculous to imply that Smith is expendable because we have Al. As far as a "far better rookie", well there is certainly the age difference but I'd advise you to look at your stats; Smith scored at a higher rate and was already getting more FTs, he had fewer boards obviously but twice as many blocks, more assists and the same amount of TOs. Saying "far better" is a bit hyperbolic when Smith actually had a better PER... Again, to say Al will be better in the future is fair but to say he is better now is wrong. I dont remember the conversation of we have to let smith go cause we have AL. The question was which One would u rather have right now and I said AL. Alot of you said Smith and thats your opinions. Hell what would have happend if I said Marvin lol

Quote: Quote: But yet shooting 50 percent in the nba while starting at center averaging double figure points (while boarding double digits) is EASY, Averaging 10 ppg shooting 50% while being constantly unguarded from 15 feet is much easier than averaging 18 shooting 46% while going up against the best interior defenders on the opposing teams. It wasn't Horford who dropped 56 pts shooting 57% against the DPOY in games 3 & 4. Horford is very turnover prone considering how little he actually does with the ball. For his first few weeks of the season he had more turnovers than field goals. The reason Al is the 4th or 5th option on offense is because his offensive ability isn't as good as 4 or 5 other players. It also wasn't Al who turned the ball over 15 times in the last 3 games against Boston or went 4 for 13, 3 for 8, or 3 for 11 either. With those kinda numbers maybe we should have reconsidered the 4th and 5th offensive options.

Quote: Quote: Quote: We'll see about that next season. Every year Smith adds something new to his game. I get the feeling that he will be a much improved shooter come next season. Heck, he was much improved this season from the previous season. You have to keep in mind just how raw this kid was when he got here. We will see what happends. But I hope we dont see the the same results of the post and midrange skills he put in with Olajuwon last summer (what a joke). Look dude, I don't mean to get in between you guys and your enlightening and productive argument. For the record I like Josh and Al a lot. Its obvious you have an agenda though. Al had a great rookie season but it certainly wasn't a legendary rookie season where I'd be willing to let go of a player who anchored the D and scored almost twice as many points inside the paint+had twice as many FTs because I was sure Al would develop beyond that. Just so you know, by the way, if you take all of Al's possessions as a ratio, a higher percentage of them turned into TOs than Josh's. Not because Al has "a low bball IQ", as you seem to attribute TOs to, but because for most of the season we were running without a legit pg and our other players tried to pick up the slack too much. I attribute low bball IQ to shooting under 31 percent from 3 point range for 4 years(omg another shot just went up) and thinking that you are Magic Johnson on the break as not being the sharpest tool in the shed. My agenda is I like AL better then Josh. If you guys like Josh better thats ok

Quote: Quote: Does the 7 ppg they dont allow make up for the points he throws away on turnovers? Yeah it isnt hard to shoot 50 percent in the NBA. Even when you start all but 4 games last year. Get real. Thats called playing smart and having a good basketball IQ not to mention having skills. First of all Horford's turnover ratio is the same as Smiths. However Smith actually creates for other players. Horford doesn't and that is why Horford has more turnovers than assists. It isn't hard to shoot 50% in the NBA when you score only 10 ppg and are being left wide open all the time. Too bad Horford's skills don't include beating big slow stiffs off the dribble. Quote: Exodus was that you that wanted Yi last year? No. You must be confusing me with Diesel and Walter. I thought yi would be a horrible pick and i think he is going to be a bust. LOL. We wont ever agree Exodus (its all in good fun though). All I can see is 4 turnover avg vs Boston in the playoffs and his avg of 3 during the year for Smith. But yet shooting 50 percent in the nba while starting at center averaging double figure points (while boarding double digits) is EASY, especially for being the 4th or 5th offensive option on the floor. Or maybe AL gets all his points off missed Josh Smith outside shots.

Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Im taking a guy who can average a double double at the 5, but could be a better 4 (what?) who brings his game everynight and who has a better basketball iq. If I had to lose one its Smith. I'll take the guy who scores 80% more against far better defenders, is 2nd in the league in blocks, can actually defend quality bigs and doesn't stand around with the ball on offense too scared to actually do anything. Yeah you can have your bad on the ball defender, who turns the ball over trying to run point guard while hes shooting a lower percentage then AL because he cant figure out that he cant shoot over 31 percent from 3 after 4 years. Oh yeah he happends to cry alot too. Funny how the Hawks give up 7 fewer ppg when the bad on the ball defender is playing. It is also strange how KG shot 7% worse than his season average with Smith guarding him in the playoffs. Another strange coincidence is that in the year before Al showed up only 2 power forwards in the NBA (who played at least 2 games against atlanta) scored 2 ppg or more over their season averages against the Hawks. This is doubly strange since the Hawks overall team defense was worse that season. I wonder who was playing D at the 4 that season because it surely couldn't have been Smith since he is such a bad on the ball defender. Al can't even beat guys like Big Z or Kendrick Perkins off the dribble. It isn't hard to shoot a high percentage when all your shots are either wide open shots or good looks underneath created by other players, like Smith. Does the 7 ppg they dont allow make up for the points he throws away on turnovers? Yeah it isnt hard to shoot 50 percent in the NBA. Even when you start all but 4 games last year. Get real. Thats called playing smart and not to mention having skills. Exodus was that you that wanted Yi last year?

Quote: We'll see about that next season. Every year Smith adds something new to his game. I get the feeling that he will be a much improved shooter come next season. Heck, he was much improved this season from the previous season. You have to keep in mind just how raw this kid was when he got here. We will see what happends. But I hope we dont see the the same results of the post and midrange skills he put in with Olajuwon last summer (what a joke).

Quote: Quote: Im taking a guy who can average a double double at the 5, but could be a better 4 (what?) who brings his game everynight and who has a better basketball iq. If I had to lose one its Smith. I'll take the guy who scores 80% more against far better defenders, is 2nd in the league in blocks, can actually defend quality bigs and doesn't stand around with the ball on offense too scared to actually do anything. Yeah you can have your bad on the ball defender, who turns the ball over trying to run point guard while hes shooting a lower percentage then AL because he cant figure out that he cant shoot over 31 percent from 3 after 4 years. Oh yeah he happends to cry alot too.

Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: We have no idea who ALL the teams with the money next year Which is exactly why it would be such a huge risk to take a one year deal. If the teams with a lot of cap space don't need a 4 what is Smith going to do? Plus next years free agent crop is supposed to be much stronger than this years. What if he takes the one year QO and then gets hurt or has a poor season? There is ZERO YES I MEAN ZERO chance that his agent would allow Smith to take the QO even in the unlikely event that Smith wanted to take it. Right, I think the injury thing is the biggest concern. Unless he gets a ridiculous offer from us (like last summer), he'll take it. The Clippers will probably offers something worth signing for anyway. By the way, you (Dawsons Creek) keep calling Smith our third best player. Obviously Joe is the first best player but who is the second best in your mind? I would take Horford over Josh Smith any day of the week and twice on Sundays. You might think that Al projects to be better down the road but I wouldn't base how we deal with Smith based on how good Al might be. I take Al as he is now over Josh Smith. Im taking a guy who can average a double double at the 5, but could be a better 4 (what?) who brings his game everynight and who has a better basketball iq. If I had to lose one its Smith. Exodus that wasnt you that want Yi last year was it?

Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: Quote: We have no idea who ALL the teams with the money next year Which is exactly why it would be such a huge risk to take a one year deal. If the teams with a lot of cap space don't need a 4 what is Smith going to do? Plus next years free agent crop is supposed to be much stronger than this years. What if he takes the one year QO and then gets hurt or has a poor season? There is ZERO YES I MEAN ZERO chance that his agent would allow Smith to take the QO even in the unlikely event that Smith wanted to take it. Right, I think the injury thing is the biggest concern. Unless he gets a ridiculous offer from us (like last summer), he'll take it. The Clippers will probably offers something worth signing for anyway. By the way, you (Dawsons Creek) keep calling Smith our third best player. Obviously Joe is the first best player but who is the second best in your mind? I would take Horford over Josh Smith any day of the week and twice on Sundays. You might think that Al projects to be better down the road but I wouldn't base how we deal with Smith based on how good Al might be. I take Al as he is now over Josh Smith.