Premium Member Diesel Posted February 20, 2006 Premium Member Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Andre Miller. This is what the Denver Post said recently... Quote: Kenyon Martin for Steve Francis? Only one problem. With Nene gone for the season and Eddie Najera sidelined by knee surgery, that would leave Calvin Natt as the best power forward in town. ... Not that Najera is a true power forward. He ought to be playing one in the movies. Instead, with the Nuggets' injury situation, he has been forced to impersonate one on the court. Kind of sums up their entire season. ... The bottom line on Martin is, well, the bottom line. If he had a contract for $33 million instead of $93 million, nobody would be woofin' at him from the stands and Kiki Vandeweghe wouldn't be sweating his job status. I think that if Denver gets Francis, they would also want to trade Miller and in this case, Miller for Al. The real question is would they use Francis as an OG to Watson/Boykins? So, if I had to reformulate a trade using this information, the deal would still include NY because NY has the disposable contracts. So here's how it can work: NY sends Penny to Orlando. Orlando sends Francis to Denver. Denver sends Kmart to NY. Also... Denver sends Miller to Atlanta. Atlanta Sends Al to Denver. As a 4 way, I think it looks like this with Orlando getting a first from Denver and a first from NY.. Click What's in it for Everyone: NY gets Kmart and Delk. I think this is really good considering that they didn't give up much. They really make off like Bandits. It's another big contract for Isiah. I happen to think however that LB would love to have KMart even with his difficulties. KMart could provide a PF to play next to Curry Sometimes that is defensive. Orlando gets Penny Hardaway and 2 1st. Brilliant. Orlando is still in rebuilding mode. They get rid of a cancer and in the process pick up 2 first rounders. They bring home Penny to retire a magic. They also give Jameer Nelson the keys to the team. I see them ending up terrible and getting either Morrison or Riddick in the draft. Denver gets Al/Francis.. Right in time for a playoff run. This just may be their Rasheed. With all their PFs injured, they make a move to get a less injured one in there. I think Al can mix with Mello. Al definitely brings a low post game. I think Denver is a place where Al can prosper because he gets to play next to Camby who is defense and rebounding. I think Karl is the coach to make Francis/Al/Mello all share with Mello being the main man. Atlanta gets Andre Miller. I have long been a Miller fan. He may be the best backcourt mate that JJ can have. Not because he's a great anything but because he's so steady. This move opens up the door for our young guys to either fly of fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalamchops Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 one of ur better ideas, but 4 team trades are tough to work out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiral Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 I like the trade, but I think the team that would stop this deal is the Knicks. Zeke has made some questionable decisions in the past, but one thing we've consistantly read is that the 2 mainstays are Channing Frye and Eddy Curry. Bringing in K-Mart is going to cut into their playing time. I think he might get K-Mart at some point for an expiring contract to give Denver cap relief. I just don't think Zeke wants to let his draft picks go for K-Mart and nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezmund Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 That was a tease Diesel. It didn't say one thing about Atlanta or Andre Miller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted February 20, 2006 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 First.. Why Atlanta What the article did say is that Denver would need a PF to complete a Kmart deal. Well, Kiki has to get out of the deal with Kmart. No doubt. He wants to sign Mello.. He may want to sign Nene also. The Kmart signing was a mistake. NY seems like that would welcome Kmart. Atlanta comes in in that Atlanta can provide a Pf for a strong Playoff run. I really believe that Al/Camby would be a darn good frontcourt. Al is in the last year of his contract. If Denver decides that they don't want him, they could trade him to Chi or NY SNT? But mainly, I thnk that they resign Mello, Al, and Nene and run a powerhouse with Watson, Francis, Mello, Al, Camby... Why Miller? If they do get Francis, Miller has to go. That's way too many guards. Plus Miller makes a lot of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted February 20, 2006 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 They trade an ending contract. They get back a good player. I don't think NY is in any business right now but the acquisition of talent business. I mean, Trevor Ariza/Malik Rose to PTL for Theo.. Come on man, you can't write this stuff better. Moreoever, LB is not big on developing Rookie. So, he's not just going to give Frye 40 mpg. I think he will play Frye and Kmart in tandem.... The same way he did the Davis boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB21 Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 ....this is one of the few ideas he has thrown out here that actually makes sense. Think about it. Denver is aggressively pursuing Steve Francis. There is currently talk that they may be dealing Earl Watson for Bonzi Wells as well. There may be no Atlanta involvement at all, but considering that Kenyon has chronic knee problems and Eduardo is also currently out with a knee injury, trading Andre Miller for Al Harrington would make a lot of sense on Denver's part if they do get Steve Francis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezmund Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Oh I agree you can turn into a direction that could involve Atlanta. I was just saying that it doesn't come right out and say anything about Atlanta whereas his subject line made it seem like something was in the making. Here's a toast to Diesel hopefully being right. Andre Miller would, without a doubt, improve our team. Smith/Childress/Williams would instantly become better players I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted February 20, 2006 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 My only concern with Miller.. Is that I have seen him be crappy. I think it was more about the coaching than him personally. However, I think that bringing in Miller is probably the best move that we can make. I don't see him as a compliment to JJ.. JJ doesn't really need a compliment. I see him as a guy who can handle the PG position and allow JJ to be a 2. Notice. We can get the same effect IMO by trading Salim for Steve Blake. I just think that Miller is more likely to score and he will probably put up more assists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawksFan87 Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 He's an upgrade over any PG that we have now plus he's also a vey good defensive player too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lascar78 Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 you are crazier than I thought if you think that orlando would trade steve francis for penny hardaway. There is no chance in hell. The rest would make sense though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KB21 Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Why is there a need to make Joe a pure shooting guard though? You take away from Joe's game when you take the ball out of his hands. He's not your typical shooting guard, because he does create opportunities for others, and he does do a good job of getting them the ball in those instances. He wouldn't be averaging 6 assists a game if he didn't. I think we need to be very careful in this idea that we need a pure point guard that is going to dominate the basketball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesheedera Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 The best shooting guards in the NBA have the ball in their hands in the half court a heck of a lot more than their PGs do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted February 20, 2006 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 It was actually Francis for an ending contract (former Magic star) and 2 1st round picks... Why not. Didn't you notice earlier that Orlando had suspended Francis for conduct.... That probably was the last straw but they brought him back to work up his trade value. I think if they get 2 1st rounders and the cap space, this trade makes a lot of sense for them. They don't value Francis. They don't want him to stay. I don't think they'd turn down an opportunity to go young and to have lots of flexibility. After this season, they will have Hill and Battie coming off the books. That's a lot of money. If they get Francis' contract off the books, they have made themselves a free agent player again but this time, they have Howard/Darko under contract. It's possible that they have built right.. finally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted February 20, 2006 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Once you move JJ into the pure SG class, then he is in the same class with: Kobe, Tmac, Vince, and Ray Allen. I think that JJ has proven that he can shoot the ball. We all like his ball handling ability... But I think it does more to accentuate his abilities as a SG than it does to make him a PG. Making him into a PG ruins what he could be and in my book that's a premiere Sg. As you go down in History, there have been a lot of SGs who could handle the ball, and they stayed great by being in that SG position. Look at Smitty. Look at Jordan. Look at Clyde Drexler... Moving these guys to PG almost killed their careers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lascar78 Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 I just looked at the trade and didn't see the firsts. That at least makes a tiny bit more sense Having said that, Denver is a good team that would improve. So their first is likely to be in the 20's, easily, assuming that it's this year. NY has already traded their first from this year, so they can't trade their first from 2007, so I'm assuming that you mean a 2008 (or later) so Orlando is trading Francis (their 2nd best player) for a distant pick and a late pick in a weak draft. I just can't see them doing that at all. Yeah they get frustrated with his play, but he still has a lot more value than that. He has more value than Al harrington for sure. I doubt you would be suggesting trading Al for Denver's pick, and a distant NY pick. Orlando are not intentionally trying to be patient like us. They thought they'd be in the playoffs this year, and they thought vasquez would be here. If they trade franchise it will be for someone who can contribute, not for capspace and weak picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeye Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Quote: I just looked at the trade and didn't see the firsts. That at least makes a tiny bit more sense Having said that, Denver is a good team that would improve. So their first is likely to be in the 20's, easily, assuming that it's this year. NY has already traded their first from this year, so they can't trade their first from 2007, so I'm assuming that you mean a 2008 (or later) so Orlando is trading Francis (their 2nd best player) for a distant pick and a late pick in a weak draft. I just can't see them doing that at all. Yeah they get frustrated with his play, but he still has a lot more value than that. He has more value than Al harrington for sure. I doubt you would be suggesting trading Al for Denver's pick, and a distant NY pick. Orlando are not intentionally trying to be patient like us. They thought they'd be in the playoffs this year, and they thought vasquez would be here. If they trade franchise it will be for someone who can contribute, not for capspace and weak picks. Agree and it will make Magic look bad about that T-mac trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exodus Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 Quote: Agree and it will make Magic look bad about that T-mac trade. They already look pretty bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Diesel Posted February 20, 2006 Author Premium Member Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 NY still has 2 1st rounders. One from Toronto and one from San Antonio. One of those could be what Orlando gets. It would be Denver who gives up the later pick... Maybe a 2008 pick. Moreover, it's still a good deal for Orlando. Here's why.... Quote: Francis becomes problem Magic guard is selfish and would be difficult to trade Chris McCosky / The Detroit News AUBURN HILLS -- It's pretty clear for the Magic to move forward, Steve Francis has to go, right? He continues to be the most selfish, underachieving player on the planet. I can't imagine the Orlando franchise wants to risk further contamination of its budding young star Dwight Howard, or continue to get absolutely nothing but headaches from one of the highest-paid players in the league. Those closest to the Magic say the only guy Francis, a guard, mildly respects is Grant Hill, and Hill is rapidly losing patience trying to keep Francis in line. But here's the problem: How are you going to trade him? The guy makes $13.8 million this season and will be owed another $48.7 through 2008-2009. Who would take him at that price? Seriously, Ron Artest might be an easier sell. It doesn't seem possible the Magic could get anything close to fair value in return. "Steve is prepared to do whatever is reasonable, whatever is appropriate," his agent, Jeff Fried, told the Orlando Sentinel. "But until we meet, it's hard to say." Fried said Francis spent his suspension (for refusing to enter a game last week) in Houston and has "cleared his head and is ready to get back to Orlando." Francis was reinstated on Monday, but reports across the league say the Magic are now ready to start seeking deals for Francis. When asked by the Sentinel, though, Magic assistant general manager Otis Smith said, "We haven't reached that point, yet." Yet. How can they not at least try to trade him? It's not just that he's erratic and selfish on the court -- he is third in the league in turnovers. His petulance and diva attitude erode team chemistry. Do you know what was at the root of this latest snit? He was jealous that Jameer Nelson was playing well and eating up some of his playing time. Francis started pouting Dec. 30 when he wasn't used in the fourth quarter. In that game, Nelson scored 25 points and ran the offense brilliantly down the stretch. And, oh by the way, the Magic won. That never seems to matter to Stevie Franchise. Immediately after that, he went into a funk. He stopped looking to create shots, stopped attacking the basket. Over the next six games he averaged 11.5 points and 9.3 shots. Nelson, meanwhile, averaged 22.9 points. Who would you play, if you are actually trying to win games? "Everybody's career has ups and downs and times when they're not playing well," Smith said. "Steve is going through a tough time right now." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lascar78 Posted February 20, 2006 Report Share Posted February 20, 2006 I am well aware that they are trying to trade steve francis. That doesn't change the fact that they aren't trading him for a crappy pick and a distant pick. They want to win asap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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