Dsinner

I think we should keep him. I liked his suites.

Not necessarily.

He's not a polarizing figure like Mike Vick because most people's problem with Mike Vick was never his heart.

You're right, it was his brains. So maybe there is a little similarity there after all. BOT I'd rather trade Smith. Most Atlanta fans would rather trade Smith and most Atlanta fans are from the area. Not sure if you've noticed but Atlanta is not what you would call America's team and most would rather have Horford.

Man up?

OK DSinner, I don't have to act like a pissy butt little girl (like yourself) and write attack posts.

So here goes.

LOL, did you just tell me you don't write attack posts and in the same sentence attack me? All I said was you had a big head. That's not really an attack is it?

I was wrong. I was wrong about Cleveland fans. They were just as Classless and clueless as the Atlanta fans were. Without a injury report or any other circumstantial evidence, they booed their star player who is to be a free agent at the end of the playoffs. I'm sure for their classless efforts, they will win over James and he will come back to the city that booed him during his last home game instead of going to another city who will show him love. I'm sure that James and Johnson are both motivated to return to fans who don't show up and when they do show up they boo them without knowing all the facts. That's being a good fan and supporter of your star player who has helped you get to the playoffs. I can imagine that those fans really figured out this plan to boo James so that he is moved to return without the fear of him not returning and them going back to being a lottery team again... I'm sure they figured that out when they booed a possible injured player. Atlanta fans as well.

So I was wrong. Cleveland fans were just as dumb as Hawks fans.

Now type it like you mean it.

Throw in the fact that JJ is 6'7 (really 6'8) 245lb. making him the biggest SG in NBA history and that makes him even more unique. How many 6'7 240+lb players are versatile and skilled enough to guard PGs like Brandon Jennings well? Maybe Lebron? Shane Battier? (Whose offense is so limmited he doesn't warrant comparison) I think many of us have talked ourselves into believing he is nothing more than a Jalen Rose or Rip Hamilton. That is so far from the truth that it isn't even funny. I hope like hell he stays and proves you guys wrong.

P.s. I know he played bad in the playoffs, but that doesn't change what he is capable of. We all have seen the best he has to offer (07-08 Celtic series) and the worst (09-10 Magic :magnifier: series). If he consistrently plays somehwere in between we have ourselves a winner.

Problem is he's the biggest SG in the history of the NBA that rarely uses that to his advantage. Never gets to the rim in traffic and always fades away when he backs down a smaller player. Problem is he's not athletic enough to use that size. Knee problems haven't helped this.

I'm a Dukee and I don't want Zoubek. He wasn't even decent until his Sr. year. His foot speed is molasses and he would foul out of an NBA game in the first 4 mins. I will say he did get better every year. Too bad he didn't have 3 more years.I say Replace JJ with a JJ. #3.

Knock off the personal shots here. If this starts into a back and forth, the thread will be locked and warnings issued.

No prob. Just call em like I see em.

You do realize to the right of the post title it says who the topic starter is don't you? Do you really need to post "Diesel..." in every one of your posts? Between you and Nort your heads should fill up Phillips every game. That would at least take care of North's Phillips issue. Your thread titles make me not even want to click on them. Now be a man and own up to your Lebron booing thread at least.

There's one HUGE difference between Pierce and Johnson - ability to get to the FT line. That may not seem like much, but it's essentially the difference between a 2nd option and a 1st option in the NBA.

(Plus, it helps to be surrounded by the Hall-of-Famers and an amazingly quick PG. If the Hawks can do that for JJ, I'm all for keeping him).

This.

Put Pierce back on his old Celtics and, well we know the rest of the story. Bring in a KG a Ray and one of the top 3 pgs in the league around JJ and I'm sure his team will perform a little better. Take Pierce and put him on this Atlanta team and we don't sniff 50 wins.

I could care less how many games we win in the reg season. I want to make it past the 2nd round. If that means we win 45 and get the 4th seed and meet Orlando in the ECF I could care less about 50 wins.

Yes it does take tons of dough, no question about it.

But................Usher is waaaaaay more than just an entertainer. He is very, very talented in ALL areas of his craft, writing, creating, producing, investing, and yes...........entertaining.

I think we would all be surprised to learn what his NET worth is. And, it grows daily.

I think you may be overvaluing what a singer/producer/entertainer makes. You're also undervaluing how much a singer/producer/entertainer spends. I promise you his equity is VERY minimal. Not even close to become a majority owner and a zillion miles away from owning one outright.

Exactamundo. I want to see if Rick Sund, well in reality Mike Gearon hold these players accountable. The ones who were walking up and down the court and going through the motions during the playoffs. Mike Woodson should still be coaching the Hawks. He is a scapegoat.

You mean the players that did this and Woody didn't pull!?!?! You guys are beyond blind. A real HC wouldn't allow this ^^^^ to happen twice. Once it's the players fault, 3 plays in a row it's the coaches. How is that not simple enough to understand?

Two words...Mike Smith. Sometimes an unknown assistant will surprise you.

The problem is it's going to be hard to get anyone to actually want to go to Toronto. JJ's not going to do it, he'd rather stay here. Wade?!?! Please. No way a SnT with Toronto will happen IMO. Of course I've been wrong before but I just don't see it. Nobody but Turk actually wants to go to Canada.

Man please. We all knew that Crawford was going to take minutes away from guys. But when those other guys got in the game, they would routinely play horrible as a group. They knew their role, they just didn't produce. Our bench was in the bottom third of the league for most of the year, until Evans and Zaza finally started to play a little more consistently, starting in March.

LOL . . ya'll act like Woody has an X-Box controller, controlling the actions of these players. Guys like Mo and Zaza played every single night. And for the most part, they were sorry this year. I guess every bench player that sucks in the league, plays bad because the mean ol coach won't play them. Poor Acie is sorry, because 4 coaches refuse to give him time.

Woody has no good effect on a game, but is the root of all that is wrong with the Hawks? Mo plays sorry because of Woody? The same guy who shot a BRICK LAY-UP in Game 1 of the Orlando series? I guess that was Woody's fault too I guess. He took away Mo's lay-up making ability.

Sorry but guys like Joe Smith, Mo Evans and yes even ZaZa (Celtics anyone) have all been adequate reserves their entire career. Only you would argue this. Time to realize you are wrong about Woody. The fans now know it, sports writers know it, broadcasters know it and most importantly the Hawks organization knows it. You can keep being in denial about the man but unfortunately for you you're on what is now a very short list of Woody supporters. I think there's you and a couple of other guys on here and that's it. That should tell you a little something about what you perceive as factual.

Only thing I know about Tyrone was from his playing days here. He was a journeyman who was a tough nosed defensive player who eventually learned to shoot the 3. I have no idea how good of a coach he is but there isn't a better HC he could have coached under. The question is how much did he actually learn and how much can he influence a team. If I remember correctly he was extremely quiet.

That argument could work both ways, maybe he wanted out of D'Antoni's system, maybe that was his big reason for leaving the Suns?

Like we both have already agreed on, Woody built this team (on Offense) around JJ and to heck with the fact that this team was built

either by design or othwise, to run. What we have seen the last couple of years is how JJ wants to play, slow half-court isoJoe ball.

He ruled Woody, which made him even less a coach.

Despite his brain fart I like Joe. I think he is a very good player. The problem is he wants max money and he has proven he is not a max player. I don't care if we take a step back for a year or two it is absolutely insane to overpay a player with a long term deal simply because there isn't anyone better out there right now. If Joe will accept a decent contract I'm all for him coming back. Hopefully he realized he turned down a contract in order to earn a bigger one and that he didn't earn it. We'll see if his head is bigger than his ego.

Y'all might have seen this also. "Dear Mr. President, I Need a Frickin' Job..." Before he starts putting up billboards, how about another assistant coaching gig?

4/22/10 Detroit News article

~lw3

That's guy's pissed off because he had no idea how to run a business in a struggling economy. Despite what you hear, it's not that hard to get a job right now. I wonder how many times he's been to the unemployment office to even look. Better yet, how does one who couldn't afford to keep his company open have the money to spend on billboards in order to blame someone else for their misfortune.Seems some people's agenda overwhelms their common sense.

So people can deny Woody's impact on this team if they want. But those who are objective about this team, know the real deal.

Actually, the people who are the most objective about this team just fired him. They know the real deal.

Uptick . . yeah. But most of you have on blinders about the level of talent on this team.

- Jamal Crawford was one of the most villified good players in the league. He was a player with talent, but not known as a player that makes a team better.

- Mike Bibby fell off TREMENDOUSLY this year.

- Marvin Williams surprisingly regressed this year, pretty much losing the ability to consistently make open jumpers.

- Mo Evans had his worst shooting season of his career

- Zaza played below standards up until about March, when he finally started to come around

- Joe Smith was nowhere near the player that people thought he would be, and was in decline as a player. ( which is why NO ONE even considered adding him to their rosters last summer )

- Jason Collins has been a garbage player for a while, only serving as a big body who does nothing but get in the way of people.

So when you look at this team, the talent that people thought we had 1 - 10, never really materialized. Our bench ( outside of Crawford ), was flat out horrible for about the first 50 games this season.

The best coaching move that Woody made this year, was playing Joe Johnson more at SF. It was a trend that we started to see last year, when Flip started to emerge as a viable 6th man that could play the 1 or the 2. This year, he didn't even waste time playing JJ at SF, especially if Marvin was struggling. He and Crawford had to play at the same time at some point in the game, and as long as Bibby was at least a threat, this team was rolling when the Bibby - Crawford - JJ backcourt hit the floor.

But when Bibby started to fall off, Woody made the decision to go more with Crawford as a scoring 1, with JJ at the 2, and increasing the playing time of Mo Evans when Marvin struggled. Now Woody took a lot of heat from the fans, because he was not playing Teague. But I'm sorry, Teague was underwhelming to me this season on defense and especially on offense. Woody went the easy route, and played Crawford more at the 1 as the season went along instead of trying to develop Teague. Without an extension and little job security, I pretty much can't blame him for doing that.

But if people want to go ahead and give the players all the credit for the success of the team, that's on them. But when you see a team win at the level that we did in the regular season . . .

- without solid PG play

- without a consistently good low post scoring threat ( especially against bigger teams)

- without consistent play from Marvin at SF ( especially from a shooting standpoint )

- without solid bench contributions on a nightly basis

- without a good defensive big man

. . then I have to give Woody some of the credit for playing lineups that overcame most of those deficiencies.

That dude simply did what he had to do, to win games.

I remember people being mad on this board . . MAD NOW . . because Woody significantly reduced the rotation in March of the 2007 - 08 season, in order to hold on to that #8 spot to make the playoffs. He would play 8 guys maximum, sometimes even 7. He would play Chill at 3 positions, just to keep a certain level of talent on the floor at all times. And people got MAD at that, partially because that meant that Acie wasn't playing ( a guy who was also underwhelming in his 2nd year ).

People were calling Woody "selfish" for doing that. Only doing that to save his job. Well no ish. It saved his job, and put this team on the path to where it is today. So people can deny Woody's impact on this team if they want. But those who are objective about this team, know the real deal.

So guys who have been above average bench guys their whole career suddenly forgot how to play? You're the one with woody-blinders if you can't see he failed to give them adequate PT and defined roles throughout the whole season. You can't keep their asses on the bench and then hope they contribute big time when they finally do get to play after 10 days off. It simply doesn't work like that. Our bench sucked BECAUSE of Woody.

I said that he favored players in a post months ago. And I said it before the players quotes were revealed in the article. Anyone who watches Hawks games continually would be able to pick that up easily. JJ is one of the favorite as is Marvin. Mo Evans and Joe Smith were not utilized properly throughout the season. Thats b/c of Woody

I said that he favored players in a post months ago. And I said it before the players quotes were revealed in the article. Anyone who watches Hawks games continually would be able to pick that up easily. JJ is one of the favorite as is Marvin. Mo Evans and Joe Smith were not utilized properly throughout the season. Thats b/c of Woody

Months ago? Congrats!! Although, some of noticed this for years lol.

Pretty fair! The only nitpick I'd make is with the 'best at designing plays out of timeouts.' I think what made the Hawks so effective out of timeouts is that the other team was so surprised to see us actually running a play.

If I remember correctly we only had one constant time out play. The Smoove alley-oop.

Please stick to the topic (Woody no Goody) and leave the Bosh/Smith debate out. It's giving me a headache to read this thread.

So impressive that he doesn't think half the game matters and it will just take care of it's self.

And then is actually surprised and shocked when it doesn't lol. Woody is a joke of a coach and it is now evident to the rest. Well, most anyway.

Even with the tple double he didn't play well. Lebron was 8-21 shooting (2-12 on jumpshots) and had a career high 9 turnovers. Someone needs to sit Lebron and Smoove down in the same room and just yell over and over "YOU ARE NOT A JUMPSHOOTER! GET TO THE RIM!" Lebron was 18-53 shooting the last 3 games. Joe was blasted unmercifully for shooting like that against a team nobody picked them to beat. 18-53 yet everyone is talking poor Lebron aqnd how bad his teammates are. If the Cavs had Wade instead of Lebron, they win that game tonight. That's my honest opinion.

Umm, I don't remember Joe pulling down 19 rbs and dishing out 10 assts or scoring 27 pts to go along with that shooting performance. Look, I hate LJ as much as the next guy and am very pleased he's out but his and Joe's performances are not even remotely comparable. Lebron shot like crap but he played his *ss off and didn't lose that game. 19 rebounds?!?! Really!?!