bfwolf

Nice.

If anybody sees Lo Wright walking down the streets of Atlanta, please take a bat to one of his legs. The Hawks are a MUCH worse team whenever he sees the court. Note: I'm just kidding about the bat thing. Unless it's a nerf bat. Then go for it.

Didn't seem like their record was much better with Gasol than without? Feels like they are still years away.

I like Law a lot, but keep in mind that it's pretty unusual for any rookie to be an above average NBA player their 1st year. Law is very NBA-ready so I expect him to be good for a rookie, but I wouldn't expect him to be a top 15 PG in the NBA or anything.

I don't see how Marvin has enough value to get this deal done. I'm not enamored by Hawes, but Hawes plus a first rounder next year is worth more than Yi who is worth more than Marvin.

I don't disagree with you, Sothron, but Memphis was the absolute worst team in the league last year. They've added some pieces and are a year older--they'll be significantly better next year, but are they going to be a contender during Gasol's tenure there? Or are they better off trading him and going younger and cheaper and trying to build for 3 or 4 years out? Atlanta, on the other hand, would instantly become a top 5 team in the East if we added Gasol. We've been rebuilding for years and are ready to become winners, and Gasol could get us there. I've got no doubts Gasol would rather play PF, but who cares what he wants? I guess I'm saying it's a question of strategy. Either you're ready to win now, in which case you want players in their prime or about to enter their prime, or you're rebuilding for the future in which case you want to stockpile young, talented guys. The Hawks, I would argue, are ready to win now with guys like JJ, Childress, Smith, and Pachulia. The Grizz are building for the future with guys like Conley, Gay, Darko, Warrick. We're a year or two ahead of them in the rebuilding process, and Gasol is a better fit for a team ready to win now than a team that's still rebuilding.

Now that the Grizz have a real Center in Darko and seem to be fully committed to rebuilding with youth, didn't Gasol just become more expendable? Gasol, who is a PF/C hybrid, is very valuable on a team without a real quality Center (e.g. Atlanta) but less valuable on a team that has a real Center (e.g. Memphis), especially when they've got another PF/C like Stromile Swift on the team. Memphis has their PG of the future (Conley), SF of the future (Gay), Center of the future (Darko), now isn't it time to get some more young guys to build around? Can't we put together a deal that revolves around Al Horford for Gasol?

Quote: Knight said he's also not worried about Drew and Fizdale coming back to the Hawks angry over not being allowed to pursue other opportunities that would have given each man job security beyond the end of the 2007-08 season, which they don't have with the Hawks. The fact that Billy Knight is not worried about that speaks volumes about his abilities as a GM. What assistant coach would ever give 100% after being treated this way?

You've got to adjust for pace.

I applaud you for going on the record even though I disagree with your position. I don't think Horford will be a bum, but I do think he'll just be an "OK" NBA player. I think he deserved to go in the late lottery. I think he'll be slightly better than Shelden Williams.

I agree that is the only way this pick makes sense. I don't believe he can be an effective NBA Center, which is why I don't like the pick.

I'm also not sure I buy the argument that Horford can give us 15-20 minutes at Center. I'm not sure what that means. Either he's good enough at Center to play the position or he's not, right? How can a guy be good enough to play the position sometimes? Is the argument that he can play Center when the other team goes small?

I think the argument that Green duplicates us worse than Horford is reasonable. If I thought that Green and Horford were of equal talent, I'd rather have Horford. But I don't think they are of equal talent, and I do think Horford is duplicative enough that I'd rather have the more talented player. To me, Jeff Green was this year's version of Brandon Roy, the guy who gets drafted after less talented players despite having no weaknesses in his game and having a monster year in college (Green was Big East POY like Roy was Pac 10 POY). I don't think Green is as good as Roy, but I do think he is the 3rd best player in this draft. I also think Green's stats are better than they look because of Georgetown's slow pace. Green can shoot, has good athleticism, has good size, good post moves, is a good rebounder, good passer, and excellent defender. Obviously this is just my opinion, and I could be proven wrong. Time will tell.

I don't take him seriously. Who does?

It's borderline. If he's healthy the first half, the Hawks play .500 ball, and there are some injuries from other key players, he's got a good shot.

Are you trying to convince us or yourself?

Don't get me wrong--nothing would please me more than to be completely wrong about Horford and have him play well right away and bud into a dominating post presence over the next few years. I've been wrong thousands of times before in my life, so I consider this a reasonable possibility. I'm just very skeptical based on what I saw from him in college. I think he'll be an OK NBA player but not a great or even very good one.

Quote: Quote: I'm probably being a bit rash with that comparison. Shelden is the obvious guy to compare to since he was the PF drafted a year earlier. But I don't think the comparison is too far off. Both are strong, good rebounders, have a decent mid-range game, but have overall limited offensive games. Horford is quicker, but we'll see if that translates to being able to beat guys off the dribble in the post. They're compared because both were slapped with the NBA ready tag, and apparently, since SW has already maxed out, NBA ready on this board = no upside. That couldn't be further from the truth, considering you can be ready to make a contribution right away, but not have come close to reaching your maximum potential. Shelden is three years older than Horford, he's shorter, has less reach, is considerably less athletic, doesn't have Horford's jumper (or, at least not consistently), doesn't run the floor or handle the ball like Horford, and doesn't pass nearly as well as Horford. That's why it's a bad comparison. Shelden was a player who had reached his potential when he hit the NBA. As a 23 year old, you're typically maxed out in what you can do when you reach the NBA. As someone who just turned 21, however, and gets better each year, Horford hasn't reached his upside or ceiling yet. That's why so many aren't sold on a kid like Al Thornton, either, as most see him as a 'nice' scorer on the next level, but don't see him getting much better than he already is. I think you're overselling Horford's potential. I would agree that he's quicker and more athletic than Shelden Williams, but I do not see star-level athleticism in Horford...quickness is harder to judge and if he can beat people off the dribble that will be a huge factor in his ability to be a better player than Shelden. I don't think he has a better jumper than Shelden. Shelden actually has a pretty nice 15 footer, and I don't think Horford is proven in this area. Horford runs the floor better than Shelden (who doesn't?) but I would not call him above average in that regard for the NBA. Horford IS a very good ball handler, but this skill is pretty useless for an NBA PF. We didn't hire him to play PG. Basically, by the time a guy is a Junior in college, I want to see him dominating college competition or show incredible athleticism/potential to want to spend the #3 pick in a deep draft on him. I see neither with Horford.

I believe the idea that Horford can play Center in the NBA is misguided. He is not big enough and does not have the athleticism to overcome his size. He is a pure NBA power forward, a position that we already have filled. I think Jeff Green is a substantially more talented player and I'd rather have him on the team.

I'm probably being a bit rash with that comparison. Shelden is the obvious guy to compare to since he was the PF drafted a year earlier. But I don't think the comparison is too far off. Both are strong, good rebounders, have a decent mid-range game, but have overall limited offensive games. Horford is quicker, but we'll see if that translates to being able to beat guys off the dribble in the post.

I think a comparison to Shelden Williams is pretty fair. Probably a little bit better.

Quote: Quote: We are all in the dark about just how hard BK tried to get a Center, what deals he turned down, and what deals ownership turned down. So I can only partially indict BK for not finding a way to get a Center out of all this, but I will fully indict the Hawks entire ownership/management team for this debacle. I stand by my statement that not getting a true quality Center during this offseason makes the offseason a failure. If I had to make a pick in the draft at #3, I would probably have taken Jeff Green. He's duplicative to our current talent, but I feel Horford is as well, and I think Jeff Green is and will continue to be the better player. My second choice would probably be Yi even though I know nothing about him just because he probably has more home run potential although he's also got very high bust potential. My only other thought on who to take would be to possibly take both Conley AND Law. There's an excellent chance that one of them will end up significantly better than the other, but it's not at all clear which one. Taking both would hedge our chances on making sure we ended up with a quality PG although we would then have to find a way to deal both Lue and AJ (very plausible IMO). Jeff Green????? Well thank goodness you weren't in charge My goodness that would have been a ridiculous pick Not anymore ridiculous than Al Horford, a PF on a team that already has a starting PF (Josh Smith) and a backup PF (Shelden Williams). I don't take you too seriously though because you are a poor judge of talent.

Quote: I'm glad someone out there can feel my aprehension. It's not like I don't think Horford can't ball. People bring up Shelden. Shelden never impressed me. Horford, however, has some game. I just don't know if he's a #3 talent. But honestly, I don't know who was. So, on one hand I understand the pick, but on the other I'm not convinced that we shouldn't have tried harder to make a trade. Some of the hype he's been given pre-draft just doesn't seem to match the player I saw in college: a good player but not one a coach would game plan for. My sentiments exactly. I saw Horford in college, and he was good but not great. And I didn't see any incredible athleticism or potential that would suggest he's going to become a much better player. I think anybody who dreams of this guy becoming the next Al Jefferson is fooling himself.

Quote: So since obviously the Amare trade failed, and we inquired about Gasol and Memphis was asking too much, who would you have drafted at #3 since you think the difference between Conley/Law wasn't that great? It would have to be Yi or Horford. Given that information, I don't see how you can be against the Horford pick. We are all in the dark about just how hard BK tried to get a Center, what deals he turned down, and what deals ownership turned down. So I can only partially indict BK for not finding a way to get a Center out of all this, but I will fully indict the Hawks entire ownership/management team for this debacle. I stand by my statement that not getting a true quality Center during this offseason makes the offseason a failure. If I had to make a pick in the draft at #3, I would probably have taken Jeff Green. He's duplicative to our current talent, but I feel Horford is as well, and I think Jeff Green is and will continue to be the better player. My second choice would probably be Yi even though I know nothing about him just because he probably has more home run potential although he's also got very high bust potential. My only other thought on who to take would be to possibly take both Conley AND Law. There's an excellent chance that one of them will end up significantly better than the other, but it's not at all clear which one. Taking both would hedge our chances on making sure we ended up with a quality PG although we would then have to find a way to deal both Lue and AJ (very plausible IMO).

Quote: I've been trying to convince myself that Horford was the right pick. But the more I try, the more I get this bad feeling. I looked at his college stats on ESPN. For every big game he had, it had 2 or 3 mediocre ones. He looked like a beast in the Championship game, but before that, he wasn't considered in the top three. In fact, as much as it pains me to say it, Brandan Wright was considered the 3rd best talent (glad we dodged that bullet). I just hope the National Championship Game was a sign of what to expect, a "Carmelo" moment. Even thought the consensus was that Horford was the 3rd best talent in the draft, I just don't see it. However, in all fairness, I'm not sure that I could offer up a better alternative (other than Conley maybe or Yi). Somebody help a brother out. Or, at the very least, let me know I'm not the only one who has apprehension about this guy. To me, drafting him seems like a combination of the 06 and 05 drafts; he sort of fits a need (like Shelden), but not quite. He was possibly the best player on the board, but perhaps not (like the Marvin vs Paul/Deron debate). I'm with you. I look at Horford and I see a guy with a great power forward body, average NBA athleticism at that position, an average NBA defensive game, and a below average NBA offensive game with some promise to become better. To me, he had late lottery talent and does not play a position of need--can't say I like the pick. But then again, there's nobody there I would've liked at #3. I like Conley, but it didn't make sense to pick him knowing Law would likely be available at #11. I really wish we had found a way to trade the #3 pick for a Center or deal one of our forwards for a Center and then pick Jeff Green, who I consider the 3rd most talented player in the draft.