Atlantaholic

Just now, SerbianHawk said:

Trade CC and Hunter

Any trade involving those guys is going to net us a downgrade. No team is wanting to take on those contracts and give up a better player back. We could trade them for picks maybe we get a projected mid first round pick for Hunter but I don't see anyone giving up a first for Cap.

2 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

WE need to add to the frontcourt.

The backcourt, despite all of their issues in other areas, is the strength of the team.

It's our frontcourt that is sub par.

yea, but how do we add to the frontcourt without subtracting from the backcourt. Our frontcourt guys have no value. 

Just now, terrell said:

Keep him.. 

Fix the damn frontcourt first.... 

 

Yea, considering the table scraps we are probably being offered, I gotta say i'm on this side now. Sell all the other guys, including Bogi. 

9 minutes ago, Mikey said:

The deals not being great are more so a sign of Murray value than anything. Plus Clint has zero value across the league. zero. He’s netting a second round pick at best alone.

No matter when or who they trade Murray for they are getting what will be the equivalent of 2 firsts. Picks players or combination. They are gonna lose that 1 additional first they sent. You’re asking a lot to bank on KAT being available and having the best offer  

Yup, obviously. If Murray was as good as people are acting like on this board teams wouldn't be low balling us. They are low-balling because they don't love Murray, even at his "value" contract. 

10 minutes ago, AHF said:

I'm not certain about that.  Siakam could resign and could fit better there than DM did in a mini backcourt here.  They haven't been contenders in years so taking a shot at it isn't the end of the world.  If Siakam walks, then it will be ugly but I have to think his agent signaled something positive for Indiana to give up this much value.  If we were the #4 seed, we would feel a lot better about our DM trade than we do today.  It is very possible that Indiana will be in that kind of position in about a year.

No one felt bad about the DJM move when it happened and we were the 9th seed or so. Indiana going all in when they are already top 4 makes sense, even if it doesn't "work out" hard to figure they'll be getting worse with Siakam. 

13 minutes ago, AHF said:

Fully agree.  I will say that this is great news for the Hawks regardless of the protections.   And if the picks aren't immediate I expect there will be protections.  (If the picks are this season like the Pacer's 2024 pick there is not nearly the same need to protect them as there would be in future years.  They aren't going to miss the playoffs unless an absolute disaster happens.)

You have a player who is unlikely to be an All-Star this season and is an UFA in a few months despite his team sitting at 15-25.  He is still putting up solid numbers but they are his worst numbers in several years.  If you are able to resign him, he will cost you double what DM costs and he will be 30 when that contract starts.

We are offering Dejounte who has fairly similar numbers to Siakam who is under a team friendly contract for years and is several years younger. 

He isn't as good as Siakam but is probably the closest thing the market has to offer.  

The more the Pacers pay for Siakam, the stronger the signal that we should be in line for a nice return when we trade DM.

Oh my, prepare for crushing disappointment on that last part. 

38 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

 

Guarantee Siakam signs a deal with the Pacers.  

What a haul for the Raptors.

53 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

I'm going out on a limb and say fans are going to be disappointed and any trades we make will be "about the future" not this season.  

Feel like our front office is the fat slow kid playing duck duck goose other front offices point to and snicker at as they run around in circles never catching anyone.

At what point do we admit Quin has been nothing short of a disaster. This is the same team that was playing much better last year minus Collins.

18 minutes ago, AHF said:

Whether he is an "All-Star caliber player" is not a semantic game that I think is particularly important.  What is important is that he is a desirable trade piece and maybe the most desirable one on the market this year.  He is signed to a team friendly deal and under control for years to come.  There is no rush and we can't screw this up and fail to maximize this trade if we hope for anything good to come to this team in the foreseeable future.  Fair value is the minimum the FO can do with this.  A Grimes and a first type of trade would be a crime against the fan base.

But we don't have assets of any real value is the problem. No one is giving us upgrades for our disappointing players. At least in the draft we have a shot in hell at getting something. If we get picks at least we can bundle them together. Adding Vicuvik or Valenciunas isn't moving the needle, and that's as good of a player as we can hope for. 

9 minutes ago, macdaddy said:

What's happening now was predictable and predicted.  You can't skimp and expect to win.  Everyone who's not tanking is trying to get better.  We didn't try. 

As great as JJ is you can't go into the season with your only PF on the whole roster a guy who's never logged meaningful minutes in the NBA.   Spud took a lot of heat for discounting JJ but nothing he said was wrong.  We needed another quality PF. 

And then have a center rotation that has no offensive game at all. 

Hunter/Bey would be fine as a SF rotation if it wasn't also the PF rotation.   

Add to that only one NBA caliber guard off the bench and you have a team with no depth and below average talent.  

Not having an elite big may be why we aren't a contender but not having NBA talent and depth is why we aren't at least 4th or 5th in the east. 

summed up to perfection. You can't nickle and dime and compete in the NBA in 2023. The conference is too loaded. This very same team would be 8th seed the last couple of years, but now is not a couple of years ago. We could have used Huerter last year, we could have used Collins this year... at the very least we should have at least traded those guys for players who could contribute in big time areas of need. Backup C was a huge need, with only the undersized OO there. We either should have moved him to PF and added a legit backup big or we needed to add a PF. But having OO be our main backup C and then asking him to be our backup PF as well is dumb, as you pointed out what has ended up happening is us having to play Hunter and Bey at PF where they are completely out of position. I have zero issues with shipping Collins or Huerter but we subtracted without adding anything. This team needed defense, and with no Collins it needed another big. We acquired none of that. This team looked good early on but as soon as our paper thin roster started getting hurt it came completely undone.

This team is completely dead in the water. I see no problem with a full rebuild around Trae and JJ. Everyone should be gone for picks, young players etc. No need to add "veteran" pieces that will at best just help us to get to the 10th seed this year. We need to be tanking for a top pick and cap room, and trying to refill the future pick pantry that we foolishly pillaged to get DJM. 

14 minutes ago, terrell said:

Murray playing well though and his name is the one brought up most..  

I doubt thats the reason.. lol

He's just happy he won't be here much longer

1 minute ago, hawkman said:

If he's hurt he needs to sit out until he's right.

Said this before and I'll say it again. Trade everyone outside of Trae and JJ and tank for the pick. Looks to me like Trae's shoulder requires 4 months of shuffleboard and PS5 before it's right. 

We might hold them to under 150 tonight... maybe.

3 minutes ago, Watchman said:

You might care about relieving the Ressler's cash flow concerns, but the fans do not rate it too highly.

Don't give a flying duck about his cash flow, more concerned about our capacity to fill out the roster with much needed depth with our cap being maxed out and the team currently headed to the lottery. 

12 minutes ago, LucastheThird said:

 

 

 

This is the tank the team so bad it moves to Seattle by 2028 package. 

1 hour ago, Final_quest said:

I’ve never seen anyone argue that there are a ton of guys with bad advanced stats every year like Hunter.  Do they exist?  

Advanced Stats darlings are the ones AHT outlined above.

Advanced Stats duds are the below team. Picking just the starting players with the worst advanced stats at each position: Going to base this off of VORP (value added over replacement level player). Setting minimum minutes at 700.

C - Deandrea Ayton (-0.1)

PF - Jeremy Sochan (-0.7)

PG - Scoot Henderson (-1.2)

SF - Andrew Wiggins (-0.9)   - (For reference Hunter is at -0.1 this year, which is 8th worst for players with over 700 mins.)

SG - Jordan Poole -(1.0)

In '23 and '22 the last two seasons Hunter has ranked exactly 2nd worst in the NBA in VORP at his position. The only year he had a positive VORP was his 20 game sophomore season.

Just now, RedDawg#8 said:

I don’t disagree that the different era played a factor, but Joe had free reign and the ball in his hands as the #1, Murray is doing this not just as the #2 guy, but next to a ball dominant guard that takes a lot of scoring and assist opportunities away from DJ. 
I think the 2 balance out.

Joe was bigger and better on defense, yes.

Considering he is a much better passer and better scorer than DJ, that makes sense. I'm sure as a number 1 option with the ball in his hands DJ could put up All Star numbers, but he can't do that here in Atlanta, and he probably can't do that anywhere on any team with playoff aspirations. As a number two option he is what he has been here, which is not worth 26-30 million, definitely not to us. No brainer trading him barring significant other changes to our roster. A player like Reaves in a super value deal is as good as we are gonna get whether you guys like it or not.

10 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Say what now? Not sure where you are getting those numbers.

Reaves

 

Murray

Was going off of memory thought Murray's deal started at 30 and went up to 35. Whatever, 12-15 million less, that's still twice the money for Murray, and he hasn't been worth it for us. 

7 minutes ago, RedDawg#8 said:

21-5-4rebs and 45% shooting is essentially what Joe Johnson averaged as the best player and an All Star of those Hawks teams.

So yeah, I would say DJM is a star based on his production. Any other market and this wouldn’t be a debate.

You guys are looking at numbers in a vacuum, forget that Joe played in a completely different era pre GS warrior revolution and that he was putting up those numbers for a fourth seed team instead of a 9th seed team, etc. forget all that. How many All Star games did Joe make as a Hawk his first two seasons. How good was he defensively vs Murray?

7 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

No, not really.  He's more like CJ McCollum to me.  Almost all-star but player value is all relative to the contract

How many wins is he adding to our overall record? Would splitting his touches among a mix of Reaves/Trae/Bogi/JJ really make us significantly worse this year?

9 minutes ago, LucastheThird said:

21, 5, & 5 on 47% shooting is star caliber to me. He has single-handedly won us multiple games since we traded for him. The fit has not worked out like we thought it would, but his level of play didn't take a nosedive. There is a reason all of these teams are bidding for him. 

There bidding on him, yet reports are that the Lakers will not include Reaves in the deal. Imagine us declining trading Hunter for a teams "second star"

Reaves per 36 mins:

18.1 - 6 - 5 - 48% fg% - 55.5efg5, 61% TS - 13 million per year

22 - 5 - 4 - 47% fg$ - 53efg%, 56% TS - 32 million per year.

I'd take Reaves for Murray swap if it frees up 20 million for us to sign a player like Nic Claxton this offseason.

Just now, LucastheThird said:

I'd rather keep Murray and try to make it work. Nobody would trade us their star for Hunter and filler—no reason we should do a similar deal. 

Is Murray really a star? Negative defender career TS% well below the current league average. He hasn't been within sniffing distance of an All Star spot since joining the Hawks. 

Of course Murray is overall better than Reaves, but he's making 20 million dollars more per year. The logic for Reaves for Murray trade, and assuming the rest of the trade is filler that eventually turns into cap dollars is Reaves + 18-24 million of cap relief for Murray.