sillent
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Posts posted by sillent
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Im sorry, but yal are giving Bibby too much cred, and our team too much slack.
Hopefully Woody was just caught with his pants down tonite and will gameplan better next game, but sheesh,
New Orleans lost the best PG in the NBA and is playing BETTER, we can/should be able to make do without Bibby. I dare somebody to argue that Bibby is more valuable to us than Chris Paul is to the Hornets. He is literally all they have. Bibby isnt even our All-Star, we shouldnt self-destruct because he isnt in the game. Our roster without Bibby is better than NO's without Paul.
New Orleans takes away that excuse from us. Chris Paul is All-World and they are surviving. Bibby is cool and all but.... i think you get my point
True!! Yes Bibby is our floor general and does run our plays(Woody let's NBA players be NBA players and create their own offense) but he is not our best player. This gives us time for other guys to figure it out(p.s. Crawford is a good point guard that's just not what he is used for on our team). Knowing Woodson he is not going to start his sixth man which means Teague will get to start early and come in often. Most of the rookie point guards from the draft have got ample playing time and now Teague will get his :thumbsupsmileyanim: . It may be a slight bump but definitely a good experience for our point guard of the future (Teague is a baller and knows how to play and now he will get his chance to get a feel of the NBA game more with more minutes). Like I said many times before Teague will be starting either next year or after the All-Star break. I've said this for the exact reason that we face now with Bibby who of course is getting older and his predecessor is more athletic with the talent to be great.
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Bibby out, Back-to-(on the road)Back after a physical game and emotionally spent run (10 games).
Did I say On The Road?
Trap games happen.
Exactly!! I hope that most people are joking!! 11- 3 not too shabby of a record (6 home wins 5 road wins 8 road games). Maybe if we were 6 - 9 like New Orleans we may have a slight issue but playing teams like a revamped Wizards (early when they had higher hopes), any road game especially against teams like the Lakers, Celtics and the Blazers, Home games against top/hot teams like Denver, Miami, Blazers and Houston. When I think about it yeah that loss to New Orleans pretty much doomed us :lol6: .
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I can still recall the Ed Gray's, Willie Burton's, Preist Lauderdale and Ira Newble's of the team!!
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This is ludicrous talk. Joe Johnson is a valuable free agent, but he's entering free agency with all the other crazy 2010 big names. It's going to be nuts. Right now, who the hell would want to leave this team? Especially after he's worked so hard for so long to get this team to where it is. There is absolutely no point in trying to figure out what will become of Joe after this season because that will be mostly determined by what happens this season.
Thus, trading him is a laughable idea, and would be tragic suicide for this franchise. JJ's going nowhere in 09-10, and that's all that really matters until July.
Exactly!!
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????How would we be New Orleans????? We already had talent on the team and would still be a much more talented team with Paul or Williams here. With just Chris, JJ, n Smoove we'd be a pretty damn good team. Having Paul would make JJ n Smoove much better players and just by going from the stupid logic that has been used by people when it comes to this topic saying that our team would have basically just stopped making moves and just completely give up on trying to get better we would have had Chillz and ZaZa in the starting lineup with those guys. The only spot that we lose at is center, Al is a much better player than Zaza but i still think we all would say that we're lacking at that spot, other than that its either a wash or an upgrade at every other position. Like AHF has said many times u can't just act like we completely stop drafting after we get Paul or that the free agency market just doesn't exist anymore. We would't be New Orleans, we'd be the Atlanta Hawks with a franchise pg. I'm happy with the way our team is constructed now but saying things like this is just dumb
You just answered your own question. New Orleans was a pretty damn good team 2 years ago. Say we do have Chris Paul, Joe Johnson and Josh Smith we would probably still be one of the most exciting teams in the league. Josh would still probably take at least till his contract year(past tense) to put it all together(He did come straight out of highschool). You would have 3 big contracts (Paul would grant one and so would Smoove on top of JJ getting/wanting more). We would be great but probably still a step below winning a Championship. Too good to continue building through draft picks at least Lotto's and either way would have to eventually worry about losing/trading one of the 3 if our late draft pick did pan out( Can't afford them all). Look at Utah with the Boozer/Millsap situation. Confusion turns to disfunction and when you don't know your role or place on a team it could hurt chemistry.
What would have happened to us if Joe wanted to be the man over Paul(which Joe did come to this team looking to make a name for him self)?
Or Josh was to good to soon(skillfully ready but not mentally ready) and decided he wanted to be the man of his home town team and ran either Joe or Paul away.Or maybe Woodson would not tolerate it and either he or Smoove is gone (Smoove would be even more hot headed being young with no peers besides Childress and Paul coming in alot more mature. Sure at the time we may get the so called "championship coach" most of us asked for or would be asking for since Woodson is more of a developing coach than a win now coach. But who is to say that this coach would not want to formulate the team more in his image (whatever that would be) and not allow our team/talent time to develop together. Yes a scenario could be that we win a Championship but it would have been unlikely with a young Josh Smith, Joe Johnson trying to make a name for him self and maybe getting a lucky pick outside of the lottery soon enough to have a legit title conteder before it all falls apart. Point is we would be New Orleans in some form or another. Great but not great enough before everything unfolds(Basically saying we can be good for as long as we can with not much room of improving in the long run without making changes that may be major) SEE UTAH.
Our current team is still young, are flexible financially and position wise,deep and have no where to go but up for awhile.
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ShaqPau/Lamar/Bynum/Artest??Kobe Bryant = 4 Rings $$$$$
Ray,Peirce/KG = 1 Ring $$$$$
Yao/ArtestTMac = 0 rings $$$$$ still searching
(Mark Cuban)Dirk = Finals Appearance $$$$$$
Shaq??Lebron = Finals Appearance
ShaqWade = 1 Ring
Are we supposed to believe teams are better off not drafting guys like this?
I would hope not at the financial stage we were in. All these players would be great to have but if we don't have the finances to get more talent around them we will be like 3 of the aforementioned above. All of these players are too talented and have too much pride to get a good(lottery) draft pick so we'd either have to go until we've reached our peak or continue building with talent until we are too deep to fail. We took undeveloped talent which takes time. Looks like most of the above teams were/are playing Tic Shaq Toe to get a win!!
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..Even Last year around this time I was complaining about Josh, or Marvin, or Mike Woodson, but this year...its different, Call me crazy, but I really think we are a NBA Title contender from what I've seen. We're playing descent on the road (Lets forget about that Bobcats game) and great at home as always, and thats really the key...I'm not even worried about Jamals outrageous shot selection, because I have confidence in him that they will go in....and Josh isn't shooting beyond 7 feet!!!!!
Well Crazy!! I think YOU ARE RIGHT SO THAT MAKES 2 OF US!!
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Moses Malone, Kevin Garnett, Kobe Bryant, Jermaine Oneal, Tracy McGrady, Lebron James, Darius Miles, Jonathan Bender??, Al Harrington, Rashard Lewis, Andrew Bynum, Gerald Green??, Louis Williams?? and Martell Webster all came straight out of highschool. Everyone of them had/have to go through their own learning curve but you rarely see many busts. All of them are/were picked so early because of their phenomenal potential and Josh is no different(let me include Marvin while I'm at it, laugh now believe later) . We always talk about what the players need to do to improve but I think the biggest thing fans need to improve on is their patience and maybe foresight. Sometimes it is OK to believe in the potential you see and although it's hard to see growth(especially when you see someone daily) take a step back and look at the continued improvement.
As for the Horford NOT being an all star comments it's sad to see that some of us are still stuck in the I don't believe it until it happens mode :cant believe: But I do understand after years of losing hope you we need someone as optimistic as me or an outsider looking in to tell you WAKE UP!! YOU'RE NOT DREAMING AND WINNING CHANGES EVERYTHING!!
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I didn't read the article that was linked to but from the you quoted it sounds like the title of this thread is intentionally misleading at best. Just because he doesn't get on them about offense doesn't mean he doesn't teach offense.
I think Woody actually doesn't put too much of an emphasis at all about offense. This may be another reason we needed Crawford. Woody knows that pretty much any player in the NBA can score (I believe Tyronn Lue had a 50 plus game in highschool and Wagner had a 100 point game). The point being is that Woodson understands this and also knows that hustle(rebounding/defense) can beat talent(scoring) meaning Defense and Rebounding Wins Championships and this is what he emphasis. Not saying that knowing that every(most) NBA player can score given the opportunity is an excuse for not emphasizing offense but if you look at it now he obviously has a point. Hot or not our defense has won games whether it was in spurts, 4th quarter or the entire game. Now I understand(not approving) why he let Salim rot after a 30 point game his rookie year against Chris Paul. Salim was disproving his point in an almost heroic offense effort and he wanted to make it clear to Salim that his offense will not always be there. That may be why he will sit a hot player down trying to prove that with defense whether you are hot or not you can still win. He's probably thinking let's see if you put up a strong effort defensively(hustling) when your not so hot and I bet we will still win the game!!
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Are you drunk?
Maybe!! Are You Ernie from those old movies!!
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His role is to be any of the things that you listed above on a given night, depending on what the team needs in that particular game.
He is not our primary scorer (JJ is) but we will need him to score on some nights.
He is not our most impactful defender (Smoove is) but we need him to defend the opposing team's best player on most nights.
His shot is WAY off but he WAS a perpetual outside threat on most nights LAST season. No reason he can't be again.
He DOES run the floor well and he finishes well on the break. He should cut more but he has done that as well (see big layup in 4th to give us the lead in the POR game off the pass from Smoove).
He's not much of a drive and dish guy but he has shown the ability to get to the line off the drive.
Bottom line, we need Marvin for his versatility on both ends of the floor. He hasn't put it together yet this season but he will.
:thumbsupsmileyanim: Well Said!!
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Part two of the Evil Genius. He spent most of his years teaching/learning from some of his own lessons. Now he is getting :blow out candles: Our team is growing up and we are very deep!! Now that our team is starting to practice what Woody has been trying to teach year in and year out and they have been tasting the wins from it they are starting to buy in and be hungry for more. Of course that hunger grows with everyone including Woody more of a will to win than teach(You can only teach the same things for so long before it is either understood or you have to go in another direction. I think we(Hawks) are starting to understand and therefore given more freedom(Hence our scoring/offense) and getting more trust from Woody to know when it's time to play we are going to play!!
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I already voted for all hawks to the all star game. I think im going back to vote again
I'm voting Daily!! :help wanted3: To those of y'all who think the NBA world doesn't want Smoove to be an all star starter and a great player in this league. They always knew he had the athletic ability to be great and they would love to see another hometown kid battling the likes of Lebron's and the Wade, Dwight,Carmelo's, Bosh's, Iguodala and Granger's being the new top dog's of the league to name a few. I can name players like D Rose ad Brandon Jennings too!! Damn the East is deep and we're on top, if we stay this way we at least got to have two allstars!!
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I told y'all Crawford was a big addition and the combination of he and Teague made us one of the strongest back courts in the league. With JJ and Bibby being one of the best half court duo's in the league and Crawford and Teague being one of the best fastbreak duo's. Yes Teague is a beast and I still think he will start either the second half of the season or next year(Bibby is not going to go down easily).
I said 1 or 2 of our 23 year old Talents would have a breakout season in Smoove, Horford and Marvin. I also said Joe could be Elite if Joe wanted to be Elite and playing on a contract year and with guys like Crawford being his competition in practice he would have to step it up(Joe is a businessman). I gave the same analogy for Woody with this being his contract year and been giving so many weapons(deep bench) so there would be no excuses to give for his evaluation (Woody is also a business and an Evil Genius might I add again). I've called Woody an Evil Genius for things I've noted/noticed in the past about his substitution and rotation decisions. Biggest one to me was when he let Boston of 3 years ago before Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen have a layup drill in a game where we were up big, only needed a couple of defensive stops and would not put Josh Smith in the game. His excuse was he forgot he had the young phenom shot blocker with a record/highlights to prove it "Josh Smith" at the end of his bench. It was then I knew Woody didn't coach to win he coached to teach. Guess we learned a little over the years!!
I've been trying to pump up our fans with every topic and get a lot of us more optimistic about our Hawks because I not only saw the potential in us but deficiencies in other teams around the league. I let y'all know that all though our chemistry is giving us our biggest edge now that we are not even close to showing our full potential. Referencing the fact that you could not pin point a single player(p.s.this was before Joe had his 30 point games and even then..) who has played to their highest potential on our team.Yet we are still winning pretty easily and collectively.
I'm still trying to tell y'all we are one of the most well built teams for the next five years(resigning Joe or not). Again I'll give Kudos to those who have built this team Billy Knight( Hate it or hate to love it) and Rick Sund.
Now do you believe that Josh Smith can be a "Hall of Famer" (now only at the age of 23). Now do you believe in the makeup of having two or more athletic 6'9/6'10 guys who can run the floor and handle the ball on offense and destroy opponents with rebounding and blocking shots.
If you didn't know. NOW YOU KNOW
P.S. I wanted to do this again before its time (Yes, 12 games is too early to claim supreme victory) because I'm confident in my statements and understanding of the game. I expect plenty more nay sayers before it is all said and done but my goal is to LET HAWKS FANS KNOW THE TIME IS NOW FOR YOU TO PUT FAITH BACK INTO YOUR TEAM!! I KNOW WE BELIEVED BEFORE AND HAVE FAILED BUT GIVING A LITTLE CONTINUEOS QUOTE WOODY FROM WOODY "THIS YEAR IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT"!! :thumbsupsmileyanim: :thumbsupsmileyanim:
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"They outplayed us with their athleticism, with their length, with their effort, with their energy, all those areas," coach Erik Spoelstra said. "They just brought more of it."
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/preview?gameId=291118001
If he liked OKC's length, energy effort and athleticism, he should love the Hawks :thumbsupsmileyanim:
106-90 with Horf and Smoove going off.
Yeah at first I thought he watched the game already and was off one point.
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Looks like I'm not the only one giving Kudos when I see how the back end of a project turns out. As a player/fan I understood his plans and the only one's I really didn't care for was the Jacque Vaugn's and Tyron Lue's but they are more of Woody requested players. Law was a "crowd" pleaser (point guard hungry crowd) and Shelden was suppose to be Horford (oops). Other than that their were not too many flaws in his mystifying plans( All athletes around 6'9 that can play multiple positions and do multiple things on the court which makes/made our switch defense so effective and we can outrun taller players).
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I was thinking about Chris Paul's contract of 14 million and I'm happy the Hawks did not draft him. If the Hawks had to pay for Chris and let's say we would have drafted Brandon Roy. How would the franchise have been able to afford the quality team that we have now? We would not have Joe Johnson nor Al Horford. Josh Smith would be playing for Memphis. The trades for Jamal Crawford and Mike Bibby would never have happened. So, I'm happy the Hawks didn't draft Chris Paul or Deron Williams!
Marvin Williams you rule!
:friends1: picking a player like Paul in the rebuilding mood that we were in would have been detrimental to team progress. We would have been great but not the best and eventually plateauing. Try to deny all you want but it happens to teams all the time in the NBA. A team gets a prize player who although is great still needs another player or two to get them over the hump. This goes for the Kevin Garnett's Tracy McGrady's, Dirk's, Lebron Jame's, Dwayne Wade's, and yes even the Kobe Bryant's. If your duo is not dynamic enough to win it all (Chris Paul/Joe Johnson) and your trio(Josh Smith) wouldn't be ready to be a real force by the time big decisions(free agency) need to be made it eventully equals failure.
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dumb post, we would already be champs if we drafted paul
Naw!! We'd be New Orleans if we had Paul!!
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If it aint broke don't fix it. Marvin wil snap out of it eventually.
Thank You for saying what I wanted to say but nicely!! If our team was losing and if Marvin was to blame then this may be a question but we are at the top of the league right now and have no where to go but up (individual goals).
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Who has played the best to their potential this season on our squad? Nobody, not even our young bigs(They've played well but not without leaving something left to desire from them in total). With that being said we look like a pretty dangerous team. We still have plenty of room to improve but yet we're still on top. This is why chemistry is such a big factor really no matter where your at( If you enjoy your job and/or the people you work with you will/should perform better).
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Barring some catastrophic result tonight against a Chris Paul-less Hornet team, through 3 weeks, Mike Woodson is the NBA Coach of the Year.
There are a variety of things that has brought this about:
- He coaches Joe Johnson like he's a superstar, which in turn, brings out the max in the Hawks Captain. Yes, we all know that JJ doesn't have the talent of the 4 or 5 superstars in this league, but Woody coaches him like he is. The offensive and defensive responsibilities he puts on JJ has made him a more dangerous player that other teams have to treat with superstar attention.
But more importantly, it has made him a more mentally tougher player. While the 3 point shot isn't there so far this year, the Captain is grinding every night, doing all he can to lead his team to victory . . even rebounding the basketball. And on the defensive end, Woody doesn't hesitate to put JJ on the other teams best perimeter player, to try to slow or shut him down.
Superstar responsibility = a more dangerous Joe Johnson.
- It is Woody that has told this team as a whole, to drive the basketball whenever they can. Josh Smith has most been affected by this mindset, seeing that he's a highly efficient offensive player now. LOL . . let me say that again. Josh Smith is now a highly efficient offensive player. While Jamal Crawford loves his jumpshot, even he is driving the ball to the hole at a much higher rate than he ever has. This has led to his efficiency as a ballplayer increasing.
The Hawks are #1 in the NBA in points in the paint. Let me say that again as well. The Hawks are #1 in the NBA in points in the paint. This is a complete contrast to a team that used to live to jack up long jumpers. Even Captain Johnson has laid off the 22 footer, and looked to get in the painted area to take his shot.
- He has not succumbed to the pressure of playing Teague, ( a guy who simply might not be ready yet ), a lot of minutes off the bench. Because of veteran guards like Bibby,Crawford, and Mo Evans on the roster to compliment JJ, he isn't forced to throw Teague right into the fire. He knows that he'll need Teague before the season is over, but he isn't going to force feed the kid either.
- He has managed the Hawks rotation as well as he ever has in his career. While not only succumbing to not forcing minutes for Teague, he has also coached games more sensibly. While having the ability to go 10 deep, he's using his depth according to the opponent we play. He's not feeling obligated to give guys a set number of nightly minutes. Instead, he's dishing out the minutes ( especially in the 2nd half ), according to how the Hawks match up against the other team.
And when the fan base were calling for the reduction of Mike Bibby's minutes, he stuck right with Bibby, and his numbers now reflect the shooting he exhibited last season in November, with Bibby shooting in the mid 40% FG and over 40% 3FG.
The most important move, is the use of the 3-guard lineup of Bibby, Crawford, and Johnson. He's using this lineup as his 2nd half offensive catalyst and possible closing lineup. The 4th quarter dominance of the Hawks can directly be credited to this move. With JJ and Crawford being very good shot creators, and Bibby being a deadly 3 point shooter, it prevents teams from employing alot of double teams against the Hawks. He's smart enough not to start this group though, because the 3 guards do tend to dominate the ball, which would lessen the touches of Josh Smith and Horford.
All in all, Woody ( at least for 3 weeks ), has been one of the best coaches in the league. Because of that, he gets my early vote for Coach of the Year.
Great job Woody.
I will agree to this because not only are we the number 1 team in the league currently but also because Woody is learning to adjust rotations with a deep and deadly team!!
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We are winning pretty dominantly(nobody has really played their best yet on our squad even if you want to make a case for our young bigs). Our only losses came on the road( A bad third quarter against the defending Champs "LAKERS" and a selfish game against the Bobcats who are pretty good against us "Mentor v.s. Pupil") and we already want to break up the chemistry?
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Is it time to trade Marvin Williams? Our 3rd pick from the 2005 draft has gone invisible this season. After getting a hefty contract this off season he isn't even averaging double-figures in 27+ minutes. His field goal % is down to nearly 40%, he is shooting a horrific .250% from 3PT range and is not even averaging an assist a game. These are not impressive stats, nor are they stats you expect from your starting SF who is averaging over 25 ppg. Could the Hawks potentially deal Marvin and a future pick for a player who would fit in better with the Hawks system? Marvin plays solid defense but I have a feeling we could trade him and get a better defensive SF and better shooter.
What are your thought?
R U Serious!! And this goes to all us Hawks fans who want to trade somebody who is still talented at 23. Marvin's a little off right now trying to refit in with a team with so many weapons and although might not be helping the team that much(at least on offense) he is not hurting the team(Hence 8-2 record). I don't care who you are you should not mess up a teams chemistry when things are going good. Marvin does fit good with our system he is just playing more of a utility role then a scorer. If other key players go down or competition increases than can you put a hit out on Williams and even then I say it's a losing situation (The return in most cases will not be better).
Patience People Patience Please !!
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This makes you realize how deep we are when you can forget a player that had so much of an impact a year a two ago and is still a big contributor.
We must beat the Magic.
in Homecourt
Posted · Edited by sillent
This is the NBA A league that boast World Champs when you when a championship. A league where great international, highschool and college players come in looking mediocre on most occasions. Almost everybody in the league is a good scorer and and good something(feel in the blank) but to be a good or great team you have to play your role to perfection. This same Rockets team beat the Lakers and they are tough because everybody knows their role and they play hard(Trevor Ariza was number two high school player coming out of Cleveland behind Lebron James). I'm saying this to say that it's not too many scrubs in the league and strategy, hustle, heart and know how wins games. Skills and talent are important but most people in the league have this in some form or another(Gerald Green,Josh Smith, Isiah Rider, J.R. "Earl" Smith are all very skillful and talented but even our own Josh Smith had to endure a 13 win season). This Hawks team is for real(chemistry/skill wise) and only when we defer to doing things outside our strategy do we really get our butts kicked!!