sillent

You simply do not win championships in the NBA without that lights out player. Detroit did it, but that's the only exception in probably the last 30 years, and I'm not sure you can even call it an exception when you consider they had Billups and Wallace in their primes. I'm not even sure what "low risk and multi-talented" means, but I would describe Chris Paul and Brandon Roy as more low risk and multi-talented than Shelden or Marvin. If it means "not an all-star caliber player" then I guess I understand.

Nobody can when a championship by their self( They at least need four more players on the court present). Everybody plays their role whether you are the star player or just complimenting peices. Lights out players are not what wins these championships. It is the confidence and ability for everyone to play their role to perfection and be on the same page (offensively/defensively) and collectively do what is needed to win the game. It was not always depending on Jordan(insert a lights out player) to take and make every shot, defensive stop or get every big rebound. Every player knew and played their role to perfection and answered when called upon. This is why the Pistons were able to shock the high and Mighty Shaq and Kobe squad because everyone on the Pistons knew their role and were committed to playing it to perfection. They also had the luxury of being able to hit you from all different angles.

Our players actually have more all around talent than those Pistons they are just not mentally ready to show case all of this talent. Marvin seems to currently be struggling with his role offensively but we have enough talent and can come from so many different angles that it is a hard force to stop. Every game we have played this year so far has all of our players stepping up and covering each others deficiencies. Marvin didn't play to good against the Wizards but made the big shots when it counted. Horford and Smoove played great offensively the first two games and know as long as they continue to be strong on defensive that they have other offensive weapons. Joe/Bibby have not been great but have been their when we needed them. Crawford is just getting his feet wet but he is also doing the things necessary to get the win. Our bench has also been instrumental when used.

Again I will say Players don't win championships, teams do!! It's just that the great players know how to get the most out of their team and step up their play when needed to get the win.

BK spent pick after pick on the least talented of the available prospects. It was only the sheer number of lottery picks (due to the Hawks continued ineptitude) that bailed out BK.

When you pass up All-Stars on consecutive drafts there is no making up for that. How many All-Star teams have BK's picks made?

Seeing that Smoove, Horford and Marvin are 23 it looks like they can have at least 10 in total by the time they get near their 30's.

We may even see an All-star team like the Pistons had where 4/5 starters make the team.

If he wasn't aiming for the lights out pick then he certainly succeeded in that regard.

Childress couldn't score outside of 5 feet, couldn't create for himself or others and he couldn't defend so i dont see how he could be described as multi-talented. What are Sheldens many talents other than marrying over his considerable forehead?

Foye is playing a prominant role with the Wizards. Shelden isn't playing anywhere as far as I know and Childress is playing overseas. At least BK's draft picks can keep him company since they are out of the NBA just like him.

BK's '06 offseason would probably rank as one of the worst ever.

I thought for sure he was drafted by the Wolves who were/still maybe very slim and in need of a good/great player at both guard positions. Your argument defeats it self when your saying Foye is a prominant role player in so many words. Maybe he would have been a good fit for our team( Not talented enough to win by himself and maybe he could of landed us another draft pick). Oops Sheldon already helped do that and we got Bibby in return for him. Who was Foye traded for again?

Did all the years of losing condition some of us as Hawks fans, keeping us from moving forward?

Why are we still stuck on the past?

If you are talking about BK it is because if you look at our core you see BK players(draftees,etc.) .

Cosign.

I have always been a big Billy Knight fan. Love to see him get credit.

I have become a huge Sund fan. Both as a GM and a person.

In his own way, he has made it clear he was not going to be part of any campaign to discredit. You can not honor a GM more than by keeping and resigning players that he brought in.

He has demonstrated great personal confidence in that regard.

That said the additions he has made and the manner in which he has done it has been nothing short of superlative.

Sund has been fantastic.

Exactly, I Cosign as well

I guess your health plan doesn't have vision benefits. A team with JJ as it's best player isn't going to be a dynasty.

If you read the end of my post I said if JJ leaves Rudy Gay will be a welcomed addition with more upside (Of course not in those exact words). Even if JJ stays he will obviously will no longer be the best player on our team during this time period.

BK drafted Childress (not in the NBA) with the 6th pick. He also drafted Shelden (soon to be out of the NBA) with the 5th pick ahead of Roy (two time All-Star) and Foye (16 ppg last year). He drafted Marvin ahead of two franchise pgs.

Again I have to state facts in terms to help stubborn minds get it. He drafted Childress over Iggy/Deng, Marvin over 2 great pgs, Sheldon was definitely a reach(but was a supposed shot blocker and beast at the time). He made up for that mistake with Horford and Bibby. He probably wanted Rudy over Sheldon any way. All in all made his moves while understanding our pay roll limitations and also more importantly the concept of depth.

Draft a long lengthy utility player that can compliment anybodies game but not ready to lead on his own because that would stagnate our payroll (Childress) check. A player like this would be great for a playoff team that already has it's main core. That was the gist on Childress when he was drafted. He still we be a great fit now(extra rebounds, put backs, long arms, excels in the running game and is a great compliment player in the half court game).

Being not too good as a whole, allowed us to get Marvin. His gist has always been that he was going to be a great player a couple of years down the road. Not be great enough now to keep us mediocre by stunting our payroll and depth (meaning too good to get a good draft pick or to bring in another Allstar player). Look at Jazz/Hornets both teams may have reached their ceiling and are going to have to rebuild.

This allowed us to attempt to get a Horford to go along with our shot blocking stud in Josh Smith. We just ended up making the mistake of Sheldon but made up for it and flipped him for a Mike Bibby( Note: some draft picks are chosen to be traded they are what is referred to as bargaining chips).

There is a reason BK isn't in the NBA any more.

BK spent draft pick after draft pick after draft pick getting solid pieces for great prices(Rookie Salaries) and now that the team is growing up it looks great. You can say BK pretty much got away with high way robbery being able to construct a team with so much young athletic team. If you are not noticing the smart teams are starting to move in the same direction(Portland,OKC,Bulls might get it right this time). Other teams are spending as much money as they can to collect all the star power they can. Hence the have's and the have not's (money being the issue). The only thing that keeps us from being the have not's (Jazz/Hornets) is we have maximum talent on a minimum budget.

BK had foresight and stuck to his vision ignoring the nay sayers. He just felt like the team he was building was not being maximized under Woody's helm and knew a decision would have to be made where one of them would have to go.

Again this is why Josh is my favorite player he has all the talent in the world and is unselfish. I remember seeing Smoove on the bench in a game where Al Harrington was in the game. Smoove was saying to one of his teammates how selfish Harrington was with the ball I think he said "dude don't pass the ball". I'm glad he shows he is just the opposite and once he polishes all of his skills and mental knowledge of the game watch out!!

Teague is 5 games in out of 82 in his rookie year. And, we're on an early season west coast swing trying to set the tone for the season by being able to consistently win on the road. His minutes will increase. He's shown too much promise.

Thank You, buckeye for beating me to it. I'm sure we all would like to see our "prize rookie" who happens to play the position we been waiting for for years. Woody is currently trying to mold us from being good to great and is doing it the safest way possible. Once our team learns how to win easier it will be easier to allow the learning process to be on the court. For now Teague has to stay hungry and learn as much as he can from the bench and practice. We all know Bibby is on the decline and we have a player in Crawford that can take his place but may be better suited as fire power off the bench for this team. So Teague has to eventually get a legitimate chance but Teague and fans alike have to be patient. Teague is only 21 so he is going to have plenty of time to play in this league.

I had a recent post stating I see our team being a dynasty in the near future and not many teams in the league(currently) can boast team preparation 5 - 10 years down the road from now.

I must give BK his credit for foresight and Sund credit for his hindsight actions. I for one am happy we are not New Orleans right now (good maybe great but can only get so far). Our team at best would have been Paul, Joe, Josh Childress, Josh Smith and filler. We do have the Spirit as owners so our pay roll would not be able to afford to much more star power. We would be great but would be stagnant as far as getting pieces we need to get us over the top. So again I’ll say I will take Marvin, Horford and Teague over Paul.

Once your team has reached it’s ceiling guess what they do? They rebuild and I for one am happy to say that with 3 allstar capable 23 year old's and a diamond in the ruff rookie we should not have to worry about another rebuilding process for awhile. Who would’ve thought 5 years ago that we would get marquee names like Bibby , Jamal Crawford and Joe Smith as complimentary players. We definitely would not have been able to add these type of players that easily if we had Paul and Joe sucking up the payroll. I am not saying Bibby and the bunch are superstars but their was a time where nobody wanted to come here and they played like it. We either had good players that were allstars at best like Shareef the Joe of now (unless he decides to change that trend and be Elite). We've had players like Stephen Jackson, Al Harrington, Glen Robinson and Antoine Walker. Their play for us stated that they came here to make a bigger name for themselves and move on or end their careers. None of these players played as if they had a pride or passion for Atlanta to win consistently.

I'm happy that our GM's have made a culture change. BK brought in undeniable talent who either had a strong passion for the game(Josh Smith,Salim,Mario West) or knew how to win and came from a good system(Childress, Marvin, Sheldon, Horford, Law). Sund is continuing the trend with bringing in players that have a strong passion for the game and winning(Flip, Crawford, Teague). He also understands the need for utility players that know how to play their role and get the job done (Evans, Joe Smith, Collins)BK already had Zaza.

BK may even get his wish (6’9 athletic line up with big guard/Crawford) in Rudy Gay if Joe does not come back. Doesn't look like such a bad wish now of days does it?

We are beating the teams we are suppose to beat like the Pacers/Kings(home and away). We are defining our place in the league staying a step above teams like Washington/Portland(home and away). Besides the mental lapse that allowed the game against the Lakers to get blown out of the water we were very competitive.

The good thing about this news so far is we are still very far away from reaching our full potential as a team. Everyone of our players have had their ups and downs and lapse either offensively/defensively or both. We are not playing Hawks defense("Woody Defense") this year except in spurts and we are still winning. Our offense has been great at times but not firing on all cylinders as of yet.

The good thing I see about this is we've learned how to win. When the time is needed to step up on D or make a big play we are doing just that. This shows signs of and up and coming Elite team. They have all the fire power to blow you out the water but even when they are not clicking on all cylinders they find a way to win. They can beat you by 30 or 1 but when you play these teams you know it is a slim chance of you coming out with a victory.

If we continue this trend of beating the teams we are suppose to beat and raising bars set for us against teams that people think may be better. We may see something pretty special come post season and could be seeing the beginning of a dynasty. All the Upper Echelon Teams besides last years Final contenders have key pieces that are old and on the decline.

Lakers may have a 2 year window as far as Kobe/Lamar/Artest/Gasol are concerned so they should be on the decline.

Celtics(just like 2 years ago), time is now or never with their currently constructed squad.

Spurs are still pretty old and grabbed more old peices.

Cavaliers may be the Cavs of old (Before Lebron) if things do not work out this season for them.

As long as Magic have Dwight they have a good system for constructing players around him so it's hard to count them out for a couple of years.

Portland(maybe future Bulls/OKC) looks like the only teams built to rival us in the next decade currently.

This is where/when games need to be reviewed and stats need to be tallied correctly. It is 2009 about to be 2010 and we still can not get something as simple as stats right in professional recorded basketball games? Come on!!

I wonder the same thing. when Chilldress was here it made much more sense cuz when he was in the line up at pg we had a line-up 1-5 of 6'8-6'10 players who were good defenders, quick and long. not anymore now, with Bibby and shorter guys like Evans and Craw coming off the bench we arent as long thus our original intention of 5 guys being able to defend every position doesnt exist anymore. we also dont have 5 strong individual defenders so we cant run a straight up man to man. its painful watchin teams shred our defense by constantly making us switch until a wide open shooter is left, or a lane opens up, or a mis-match is created.

we are better off running a zone defense, with Smith on the interior of Bibbys side. thus we turn a weakness into a strength as Smoove is an awesome help defender and everytime Bibby gets beat he will have an oppurtunity to get a block. our current roster is not built for the defense we run, and it seems like Woody's tryna hold on to it because when we had the players it made him look smart as a coach when it was succesful, but now it only further exposes his lack of adjustment and ability to scheme to his players strengths, it is perhaps the laziest defensive "scheme" in the NBA. Its no longer effective for us.

Adjusting is Woody's biggest weakness in my opinion in what he has shown so far. Will he ever get better at it, hopefully yeah for our sale and his sake alike but we still are long enough(as a majority for this scheme to work. It's easier to slack off against weaker opponents and the better we get or feel like we are the more it will frequently seem like we are facing weaker opponents.

I used an example and you are trying to use that as the emphasis of my argument? The point I'm making is that had Jamal simply been able to just average within 16-18 points on a nightly basis he would have been far more endearing character to Knick faithful rather than the feast or famine player that he was. There's a lot of points between 50 and 0 and he could touch on any in any given night. He can pass, he could always pass, for a player to have the ball in his hands as much as he's had that has never been an issue with him. The issue was that he was the man and he couldn't be counted on with his inconsistent play. When teams needed a score they always turned to Jamal and he would either come through for them or not, more often he would not. All the talent in the world to drive on anyone but he would always fall back to that jumper even if it wasn't falling for him. The guy has been in the league for 9 years, don't try and make it out to be that he was just some poor soul along for the ride to hell, that is just fallacious. Plenty of scouts and coaches have spoken on Jamal Crawford the player and have mentioned his deficiencies outside of whatever you want to blame on a team. You can try and deny that all you want but 9 years is enough to get to know a player.

Guess What!! He is now on a playoff team and he is not even the starter he is the 6 man. Anything extra your bench can give you is a plus but your bench is not expected to win the game for you every night. This is why Crawford is a plus(he is an extra player that can come through off of the bench when one of our starters may be off/foul trouble and we need some clutch play). He does not necessarily have to do it with his scoring but he has the ability as a great play maker to make big things happen.

Fact of the matter is that our bigs are offensively unable to score inside. That's a problem. IN order to be a championship level team, we have to have inside scoring.

I don't know what we can do... However, we need to start to either train our bigs to play inside (through new Big man coaching) or get a new big man.

My problem is that I don't want any of the retreads that are out there like Boozer or Brand or Oneal. There has to be some young big that has an offensive game that we can talk to... In the meanwhile, We ought to hire a good big man's coach...

I always like Clifford Ray.

There's also Robert Parrish, Cliff Levingston, and Tree Rollins.

I am not for sure but I thought I saw a lot of Bigs in next years draft that can really come in handy. I don't think any team will be willing to give up a promising big for little to nothing currently.

Rudy Gay will officially be a free agent next season!!

Imagine 2 of the most athletic players in the league. No not Dwight and Vince and definitely no not Lebron and Shaq/Jamario Moon. If Joe doesn't re-sign Rudy Gay will definitely be a welcomed fit. He is an allstar/young player that needs help and a winning system kind of like Crawford.

Jeff Teague/ Mike Bibby/ Jamal Crawford

Jamal Crawford/ Rudy Gay/ Mo Evans

or Rudy Gay/ Marvin Williams/ Mo Evans

Josh Smith/ ?(Maybe Joe Smith again)

Al Horford/ Zaza Pachulia

Rudy Gay is an up and coming star just like Jeff, Marvin, Smoove, and Horford and these five young players that are capable allstar/superstars the Hawks will have some of the best and youngest vets in the league at every position.

Not to just forget about Joe but you always have to have backup and security and I think Gay will come at more of a reasonable price. I know all the BK Haters will hate to see a team composed of

Teague/Bibby

Gay/ Crawford

Williams/ Evans

Smoove/Smith

Horford/Pachulia

but it would be hard to doubt the talent of not only the starters but the bench would be just as deadly. (Bibby and Crawford may not be the best defensive tandem but against bench players no one is stopping their offense).

Again!! Teague barring major injuries will be the truth!!

I believe Marvin(23) is just a little shell shocked about all the talent around him and where he can contribute without disturbing chemistry. This affects his rhythm but once he learns to get in where he fits in (plus some) I think he'll be quite alright.

Teague's a good sport but that ain't right!!

but i believe we didn't to too well in la last year and/or the year before.......

actually i was hoping to face a 0-2 lakers. that way we can really see how we are as a team. we don't need a good record at all. we need to know if we are good enough. if we are not, sund need to look for help either via trade or something else.

We actually played very well against the Lakers in our last outing (last year, home court of course) and showed a lot of promise in the fact of being able to compete with anybody.

I have to admit...the first time I saw Jeff Teague in a Hawks uniform I was appalled...I thought OMG! is BK in charge again? 0-15...granted it was in a preseason game....but it was on national TV. I figured "well we can forget about this kid"....what the heck are they doing at Wake Forrest?

But he does seem to have some guts....if he can develop a decent shot to go with those guts we may actaully have a player on our hands.

I too think BK had an input in this one (I'm pretty sure BK and Sund have had many chats and they were even seen in the stands together at at least one game)!! I just don't think BK ideology was so bad and luckily neither does Sund (And most of the league for that matter). It's kind of sad when more teams and players respect us more than some of our fans. From the Kobe's, Wade's and of course Dwight and even coaches like Phil for instance have a lot of respect for us and our team and play us/game plan for us accordingly. Even when we were not close to scratching the playoffs a lot of the NBA world feared our potential just as they do the Blazers/76ers and other young athletic up and coming teams(OKC/Memphis). They would be fools not to!!

It's the father son syndrome.The father is going to whoop up on his son as much as he can in fear that one day his son will over whelm him (especially when you know your child has the potential to be great). Once the child finally puts it all together look out (the father knows there is no longer a chance of beating him and the mighty has become the fallen). Basically get your licks while you can while also teaching your predecessors how to be great and show no mercy!!

Same goes for Smoove. If he has a good to great year, so does the Hawks. We need everybody clicking and hitting on all cylinders at least most of the time to take that next step as a team, so some of yall need to get over yourself and just pull for the team success and stop waiting for a bad game from Joe, Smoove or Marvin to start b&tching.

I agree with both topics above. As for JJ it is his money to lose I can be mad at him for not proving that he is the elite player he wants to be/ can be but as long as he does not hurt the team in the win/lost column again it is his money to lose. In a game like this although he is one of the players expected to carry us we did not have too many bright spots as a whole. Looks like JJ is going for the save it for when it counts approach this season and is expecting everyone else to step up now (early during the season). For the most part his scoring numbers have not really determined the outcome of the game but are still decent enough to look good on paper. We are deep enough for JJ to stay under the radar until the games that actually count(post season and whatever it takes to get to the post season) but unless he plays phenomenal during that time I do not see him getting the contract he may be hoping for.

We had 3 so-called statement games early last year ( @ Orlando, @ New Orleans, and @ Boston ).

We won 2 of them and lost to Boston at the buzzer.

Those wins helped us get to the good start, but those wins didn't translate to the Hawks being a good road team. The Hawks lost way too many road games against mediocre and bad teams. The elite teams in this league feast on the lesser teams at home and on the road. Those same elite teams usually struggle on another elite team"s home court.

That's why when some of our fans freaked out over a preseason road beatdown, I downplayed it. Stuff like that happens on the road . . to EVERYBODY. But when you lose like that at home, it may be more psychologically damaging.

If the Hawks lose by 2 or by 20 against the Lakers, it really doesn't matter. It's still a loss.

But if they lose tonight, and turn around and beat Portland Tuesday night, that'll say a lot more to me than a Laker win. It's games against teams who are below or at our level, that we usually lose way too many on the road.

So if we beat the Lakers, but lose to Sacramento, will the Laker win really mean anything?

I like your ideology on this one and think that the rest of our fans should take heath to the wisdom of these statements.

I know this is random but I go to school in Nashville and was at the Titans game today and even tho they were 0-6, their stadium seemed packed at least 85-90 %, much more than the Dome or Phillips would be if the Hawks/Falcons started their sesons winless, and the fans were great.

My point being, why are we acting like the sky is falling??? Why are we giving up on our team because they got beat by a better team??? I want us to be world-champs just as bad as the next guy, and the thing is, I can still see that potential in this team. Its too early to jump-ship on these guys. They went winless against Boston in the reg. season before pushing them to 7 in the playoffs. We cant let ourselves over react during roller coaster ride of this 82 game reg season. We ultimately are waiting for the playoffs to judge whether we improved or not, and this team still looks strong enough to compete for a top spot and compete in the 2nd round so why are we buggin so hard so SOON???

Thank You!! Damn we are just as inconsistent as our fans. I wonder if the Lakers thought the World was coming to an end after one game. I guess Cleveland's season is over. If you have bad games consistently and the season is at stake because of it, OK. But seriously one game for a team with players and a coach alike trying to figure out how good they are and can be. Come on. If anything I'm losing more faith in our so called fans than our actual team. Yeah like most of us I expected them to do better but the 3rd game against the World Champs on their court in a 82 game season gives me no reason what so ever to pull out a red flag. For a team that a least beat the teams they were suppose to beat and still currently hold a (2-1) winning record (since the first lost in 3 games in an 82 game season is so detrimental).

Of course we all wanted the win but there will be hiccups (nobody is perfect) and I at least give credit to us hiccuping as a team. This actually can help our chemistry when nobody can blame any body but them selves. Everybody has to individually step up for our team to step up and they can all hold their selves accountable. On the bright side when we have games like this it will help Teague show that he deserves more minutes which will bring yet another dimension to our team for opponents to have to deal with.

Don't you boys dare blame Woody for that ish! Don't you dare, you cute little boys.

Who am I?

:bye1: I'm guessin NorthClyde

The rebuilding started for this team like 5 or 6 seasons ago. So need to talk about how you have to walk before you can run. Did Boston have to walk before they could run? Does LA have to walk before they can run? Does the Spurs have to walk for they run? A team shouldn't take 8 seasons to develop. This team still does a lot of the same things they did 3 years ago. Plus, the teams best player is pushing 30 and everybody else is still a role player. The Hawks have a roster full of role players and they're not going to reach the elite teams. Period. This team missed it's shot to have a player to build around when they drafted Marvin Williams.

Blame Woodson? No blame Billy Knight. This team will end up just as Memphis did. Remember that team that won 50 games but never got anywhere in the playoffs? The only reason this team did was because they were playing the one player team in Wade. This team was went as far it can go, and that is laid at the feet of Billy Knight.

Yes!! All of their Marquee players have at least 10 years in this league and/or had to learn from greats to be great.

Memphis did not win a single game in the playoffs if I recall correctly and since your such a Billy Knight hater I have two more facts. Memphis did not start winning until Billy Knight came (traded Shareef for a Rookie named Pau Gasol) and got other pieces for them. They started losing when Billy Knight left( For the Hawks Ironically). We have been one of the cheapest and youngest to win under Billy Knight's tenure. Sund obviously feels like BK has done a pretty good job keeping every BK choosen player but Childress and and enjoying/adding to our year to year improvements.

Besides Vaughn, Speedy (would have been a good pick up if not for being injury prone which BK usually has/had a good eye for),Lue(who actually was decent on the offensive end at times), and Sheldon (BK thought he was Horford at the time but made the right pick the second time around). Law (although I felt he may have had some potential) was not really a BK pick and was more of a forced pick by fans, Woody, etc...Teague would have been a BK pick( young, athletic, multi dimensional PG/SG).

You are definitely a CP lover but BK had forsight enough to know that depth beats a one man team. Look at New Orleans now (very stagnant and will take a lot of work to move forward). When double O is your prize for losing Chandler it is kind of sad. We have four young and talented players that can fill four/five of the positions the NBA requires and they all have no where to go but up. Marvin may be currently shell shocked over all the talent we have but once he learns where to fit in and how much he is a key to the team we will be one of the deadliest teams in the league( assuming Smoove, Horford and Teague continue their stellar play). Everybody has bad games in the league (including Kobe) so one game does not mean the season is over.