niremetal

I was torn between C and D...C-minus really. Given the diminishing protection attached to the pick in future years, we almost certainly are getting a first-rounder in the 16-22 range out of the deal (the Hornets look very likely to be a top-6 seed at some point in the next few years, but probably won't suddenly win 55+ games). That's not nothing. But I'm skeptical this is the best Travis could have done if he hadn't been a bit more patient.

9 hours ago, NBASupes said:

No one is fixing the problem which is defense until Trae gives a shit about defense. He's like Zion last year for the Pels. He causes his defense to rotate so much to protect him that the integrity of the defense is shattered. The difference is, Zion could play some help self and use his athleticism to get some occasional positive plays. Defense is just the worst I've seen. His man defense isn't bad on average but his PnR defense is the worst in the NBA and during the RS, his off ball defense is trash outside of the first three games each season and the playoffs where he gives a shit on that end.

It's not a shock, in the games without Trae playing, we were keeping teams at 101 ppg. With Trae, the last time a team didn't score 130+ points was our Orlando win. I been saying this for years. I don't believe Trae has tremendous stamina. I believe he puts so much energy in offensively, that he just doesn't have much for anything else.

9 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Trae is like, defense takes too much energy and i don't have a lot and I dont really care for it or good at it so i will focus on what i do and have the others help just in case. He also doesn't have good defense awareness during the RS and ball watches a lot.

Taken together, this says to me that as long as Trae is unwilling or unable to give more of an effort defensively, the Hawks are never going to be able to win a title. Because the reality is this: no team has won a title in this century without at least a top 20 defense (in terms of efficiency, i.e. DRtg). The only team that wasn't at least top 10 was the '01 Lakers--a team that finished #1 in DRtg the previous year and was so dominant with two all-time-top-10 offensive players that it was able to coast during the regular season. That was a team, in other words, that was literally the best team in the league defensively when it decided to be, and had already proven itself capable of cranking it up defensively when needed. That ain't us. 

What am I missing here?

33 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Now the bench is: Wright/Bogi/Kev/Open/Capela Let's say is Craig from Indy. Wright/Bogi/Kev/Craig/Capela

That 2nd unit now has a lot of defense, shooting, guys who can handle the rock, and Capela to split with Sabonis. 

I like this trade idea. I think it helps. Capela and Sabonis are carbon copies but vice versa. Capela is an average offensive player with severe flaws while being a defensive star. Sabonis is an average defensive player with physical limitations while being an offensive star. I like it. 

I've always thought Sabonis would be a close-to-ideal offensive complement to Trae. His ability to pass out of the post would just open up the offense so much, both off screen rolls (he makes great touch passes) and by making it so we don't have to rely so much on screen rolls in the first place.

But...the problem would remain the defense. Even with Sabonis, we wouldn't be averaging 120+ a game on offense--and that's what we'd need to average to make up for the number of points we've been giving up for the last month (and that's just to play .500 ball, which in and of itself won't be enough to get the team back into playoff contention).

Sabonis is a solution, just not to the problem that must be solved for this team to compete again. As long as the defense remains this poor, offensive firepower won't save us. We're bottom 3 in defensive rating after last night. Literally no team has ever contended with defense like that (which makes sense--if you're giving up more points on average than 27 other teams, no amount of scoring will be enough to win 60% of games).

The one thing a Sabonis trade might do is shake the team up enough to get some fire back in their belly, which *could* solve the defensive issues. Right now, the team and the coaching staff just seem to expect the problem to fix itself.

Just saw it in theaters and thought it was amazing. It's just incredible that it was directed by Steven freaking Spielberg, who had never directed a musical before.

I'm convinced now there is literally nothing the guy can't do in terms of film projects. One guy directed Jaws, Raiders of the Lost Ark, ET, Schindler's List, Jurassic Park, Saving Private Ryan, Minority Report, Catch Me If You Can, Lincoln, and now West Side Story. Each of those was groundbreaking, historically great films in their respective genres (which span from horror to drama to sci-fi to historical epic to musical), or both. Even his "misses" were pretty much all good movies, just not "great" ones (The Terminal, the closest he's come to a comedy film in my lifetime, is actually low-key one of my favorite movies). The only one of his movies I really did not like at all was AI, and I have friends who swear that's his best movie.

Anyway, see it in theaters while you can, because the sets, colors, and choreography just won't land the same on a small screen, and apparently no movie stays long in theaters anymore unless it's got lots of explosions.

The Skyhawks' schedule this week is insane! Memphis on Monday, Toronto on Tuesday, and then back to CP on Wednesday?? Those dudes are going to be Burned. The. Eff. Out.

3 hours ago, Sothron said:

Capella cost us this game. There's no other way to say it. He blew at least six shots around the rim plus he consistently let them get offensive rebounds. This was a game he frankly should have dominated. The Hornets have no real center on the roster outside Mason Plumlee and he didn't even play.

I agree Capela stood out as a key reason we lost offensively.

But defensively I don't think he was the issue. Defensively it was, as almost always, our perimeter guys that I thought were the problem. Ish Smith is quick, but he's small and has no business getting into the lane as often as he did. There were 1-2 ORebs where Clint just seemed to be caught out of position. But otherwise, I think the ORebs were where Clint was switched, out of position because he was forced to cheat, or outnumbered.

Opposing teams have clearly figured out that our strategy when we have Trae and 1 or 2 other weak perimeter defenders at the same time is to try and funnel the driving player to Clint and then rely on rotations to recover. Because it seems like they are sending other guys at the basket as soon as our on-ball guy gets burned. There was at least 1 OReb I saw where Clint was literally the only Hawk within 10 feet of the basket and he was surrounded by 3-4 blue jerseys. In that situation, not even Dennis Rodman is coming away with the rebound unless it bounces right at him.

The fact that their 4s are really 3s actually hurt us in a sense because it meant JC was often out on the perimeter and couldn't recover to have Clint's back in time, which has saved us on a LOT of possessions this year.

Anyway, as long as our perimeter guys are getting consistently burned, leaving Clint alone near the basket to clean up the mess, opposing bigs are going to carve us up around the basket, both off passes and off rebounds. That's just what happens. I don't blame Clint for it. Yeah, he was more dominant as a help defender last year, and he's a step slower this year, and that means he can't make up for our other guys' flaws as easily. But I still feel like that's not "on" him, because I don't think any center in the league could do Clint's "job" well enough to make a meaningful difference in those situations.

10 hours ago, NBASupes said:

He fits our RS style more than TLC. TLC been better this year as an individual but we need Snell back

I agree it makes sense for the Hawks. I don't see why it makes sense for the Blazers, which was my point.

51 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Trust In Travis Schlenk

Is there inside info at play here? If not, then as an adoptive Portland resident who has been forced to become something of a Rip City guy...I'd say hard pass from their perspective. Esp since Snell has proven to be a great locker room (and overall team culture) fit so far. Not sure where the benefit is for them. 

I just feel awful for Dre. Man just can't catch a break.

Like everyone is saying, this is Cam's best (and possibly last) chance to establish himself as a consistent player. Maybe not having to worry about fighting for minutes as much will let him stop trying to force things so much. 

For those who think this might be a window for JJ...methinks Nate will want to know he can play like not-crap in G-League for a few games first. Solo and TLC will remain ahead of him on depth chart until then, since we're no longer in rebuilding mode. 

18 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Bogi needs to stay off the three point line for a while and just focus on midrange shots. 

 

Bogi was shooting 41.1% from deep this month before tonight, so...no.

The issue is his edge and aggressiveness are missing on both ends of the floor this year.

45 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I felt more at ease with Kev having the rock. Even if Kev missed the shot or made a mistake, he was looking for the right play. Trae likes to go for home runs too much (alleys and corner 3) and teams like Utah scheme against it. 

I will say we were close. We just couldn't make the plays when it mattered most. JC and Kev missed threes. Cam turnover that lead to a layup. Trae turnover that lead to a three from Clarkson on a hammer which Cam should have went over but Capela also needed to show and fade. We just make way too many mistakes. You almost wonder how we made it to the game 6 of the ECF. 

I actually feel a bit better after tonight than I did two games ago. Tactically and in terms of effort/focus (especially not letting no-calls throw us off). We lost focus for about 4 minutes in the second half but recovered...just not enough to complete the comeback due to poor execution (like you said).

Give us Bogi or Dre back and I like our chances.

Also...let's try the Trae / Bogi / K'Von / JC / Cap lineup, which has only seen the floor 12 minutes this year after being the dominant lineup during our spring / summer run last season. 

It seemed to me that Nate was trying out different rotations in the game to see how the pieces fit together, esp seeing what we could do without having either Clint or Gorgui on the floor (spoiler alert: play Gallo and JC together). I think that exercise was needed at some point because both of our centers have looked...not great...so far this year (though I still have hope that it's injury-related for Clint and that it'll resolve once OO is back and we can afford to rest him more). It shows he realizes the need to make adjustments.

And we did "uncover" what I thought were a couple good rotations in the first half (Trae/Huerter/Cam/Gallo/JC and Delon/Huerter/Hill/Gallo/JC, along with the Trae/Bogi/Dre/Gallo/JC lineup that we also ran with some success against the Suns).

Problem was, Curry was unconscious. Probably couldn't have won anyway given how hot he was. But winning definitely wasn't going to happen with Nate continuously fiddling with the rotations, which kept the team from getting on the same page defensively.

Anyway, we'll see what happens next game. But I have a feeling that this was partially Nate just taking stock of some alternative lineups in light of how unexpectedly bad Clint and Gorgui have been--and doing that in a game is really the only option, since the team hasn't had 2 straight days off (giving the chance for a real practice) since the season started.

11 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

 

I think we can kill that "deepest team in the league" talk.  Not with the way some of these guys have been playing.

 

3 things Nate can do:

 

(1) Stop with the all bench player lineups

(2) Shake up the starting lineup by starting either Cam or Reddish in place of Bogi or Hunter

(3) Give Sharife a legit shot to be the full time backup PG

I agree with (1). (2) is a push (I'm assuming you meant Cam and Huerter, both of whom have been even less consistent than Bogi or Dre, but I'd be up for "promoting" Huerter and rolling with the starting 5 that dominated for us March through June). (3) is a hell no...Deuce Coop looked downright awful in his first two G League games.

1 minute ago, niremetal said:

That was a Bball IQ of 60 shot. He was DOUBLED 27 feet from the basket. Most predictable fast break in history off that miss.

And then Bogi taking a fade away contested 3 on the next possession with plenty of time on the clock too. 

Awful. 

And to make it even worse, in the post-game, watch Trae whine about how his problem is that he's not looking for his shot enough

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

It's not just execution, it's like, Trae be jacking up contested stepback 3s with 14 seconds on the shot clock. I mean damn. I don't mind a miss but some of shit is unbearable 

That was a Bball IQ of 60 shot. He was DOUBLED 27 feet from the basket. Most predictable fast break in history off that miss.

And then Bogi taking a fade away contested 3 on the next possession with plenty of time on the clock too. 

Awful. 

Eh...there's a reason the 7-footers (and other bigs who park themselves on the low post) have largely died out of the NBA over the past 20 years, even before the Steph Curry/3-point boom: the illegal defense era ended in 2001.  In Kemp's day, McMillan could dump the ball to Kemp and Kemp could largely go to work one-on-one because the other defenders either had to stay home or commit to a double...they couldn't cheat off the ball to constrain Kemp's movement while still staying close enough to their man to contest on a kick-out. So a big who could ISO in the low post was worth his weight in gold.*

Now, if the ball goes to the low post, the other 4 defenders all cheat so far off the ball that a move into the lane will be double-teamed every time. So the choice is usually either a contested fadeaway (which John as great at), a contested hook shot or bank shot in traffic, or a kick-out. That's why passing bigs are usually the only ones who see a lot of low-post touches now.

Trust me, I wish there were space for that strategy to work, because I agree JC has the touch to be deadly one-on-one down low. But although his dump-offs to Clint are crisp this year, he doesn't have the consistent passing skills to make defenders pay when they collapse on him. So unless we can turn back time, we'll have to make do with his occasional midrange fadeaways.

(* As an aside, this was also the reason MJ was so dominant--the illegal defense rules meant that defenders couldn't cheat to the edge of the lane to cut off his paths to the basket. He wouldn't have gotten nearly as many lay-ups or dunks on ISO plays as he did if he were playing today.)

I can't possibly be the only one who thinks these new jerseys are ugly AF. Yellow was good as an accent color, but as the main color, with that big-azz red hawk splashed all the way across the front? Blech.

3 hours ago, skimaskway23 said:

Here's an idea. Start reddish and huerter. Let hunter and bogi find their rhythm in the 2nd unit.

Huerter best game so far this year was as a starter. Cam won't hesitate to shoot like bogi 

 

Hunter and bogi need to know their starting status isn't guaranteed.

I want to see more pick and pop with Collins. We don't put him in enough Draymond green type actions. He has been decisive and efficient whenever he gets an opportunity. At least whenever he isn't in foul trouble

Huerter is shooting sub-30% from the floor. You don't get a promotion with that based on one game against one of the worst teams in the league.

I'll trust Nate on mixing Cam in with the first unit. My gut tells me it's worth trying, but as of now, the three worst two-man combos for the Hawks thus far have featured Cam alongside one of the starters:

Obviously, there's lots of overlap there because Capela, Bogi, and Dre are usually all on the floor together. But still.

Hawks lost tonight because they missed lots of shots they usually make. That actually was true against Dallas as well, but our defense was so good that it didn't matter.

Trae will find his floater, he/Dre/Bogi/K'Von/JC will start knocking down open looks, and the team will get to the line more as the players find their rhythms. Gallo's return will help with that too.

So yeah, I don't see this becoming the start of a trend. And unless it does, I'm not hitting the panic button.

2 minutes ago, aali34 said:

Any thoughts on what we could have done better?

Not miss so many wide-open looks. I'd love to see the advanced metrics on where the Hawks missed tonight. The eye test suggests to me that they had more than enough good looks to win.

Relatedly, free throws--both not getting them and not making them. Not too many teams will win games with only 9 made free throws. Folks can blame the refs all they want, but we didn't attack the rim nearly enough, and if you remove Trae, we were only 2 for 8 from the line.

Banking your offense on jump shots and then missing them is an easy way to lose.

Also...this is going back a bit further. But Kevin Willis strikes me as a player who deserved more Hall consideration than he got. He was top 20 all-time in rebounds when he hung em up. He's now #25. Of the guys ahead of him, only Buck Williams, Paul Silas, and Charles Oakley aren't in the Hall (and Buck will make it eventually...it's crazy he's not in there now). And Willis was a better offensive player than any of those three (though Buck and Oakley were both underrated offensively).

He had a great low post repertoire (great hook shot and turnaround J) and solid midrange game (his jumper was ugly but it worked). He could have been a stretch big, except that wasn't a thing back then.

He's the only player with at least 17,000 points and 11,000 rebounds who isn't in the Hall.

And here's a list of guys who averaged 15.5rpg or more over a full season during the last 40 years:

• Dennis Rodman (x5)
• Andre Drummond (x2) 
• Kevin Willis

Unfortunately, Willis had the misfortune of playing in the era with Rodman (who overshadowed everyone on the boards), Barkley (another all-time great rebounder), plus the biggest glut of elite interior big men in the history of the league. His career was basically parallel with Olajuwon, Ewing, Rodman, Robinson, Barkley, and Daugherty (who was Hall-bound before his injuries), and early in his career, he had to bang with prime Malone and Parish in the East. And that's just the Hall of Famers. Laimbeer, Oakley, and Buck Williams were not shabby either. That makes his accomplishments all the more impressive.

There is literally no one in league history who had worse luck in terms of just coming along in the wrong damn era. Shift his career 10 years earlier or later, and I honestly think he would have been in the Hall.