spotatl

I'll say that this isn't as egregious as disqualifying a player prematurely. But I'd think that when the scoreclock operator says he pushed the shotclock button twice to reset it and nothing happenend and he didn't stop the play then the Hawks have a decent case. But for so many of these things I have to ask how people would have reacted if it happened in the 3rd quarter as opposed to in a highstress situation at the end of the game. If a player gets DQ'd then its still a massive problem, but with the Hawks shotclock it would be forgotten about. I wonder how much this happens and we just don't realize it. But look at this another way- to me this certainly isn't as bad as when the Raptors simply weren't credited with a basket in a game which they lost by 4 points. The NBA did not make the Hawks do a replay of that game.

I just don't see Aldridge and Okur as any better at defending centers than Horford... I don't get your post at all Diesel. I just can't see how anyone thinks that Josh Smith should be playing FURTHER away from the basket. If you want a real center on this team I think it has to be either to go with a 3 man rotation at PF/C or by trading one of Smith or Horford to do it. Smith is not on any level a SF. Even on defense taking him further away from the basket limits what he does well- the Hawks already struggle when the other team has a PF that can drag him away from the hoop. Its a huge reason why the Magic destroy the Hawks so frequently.

So who out there still thinks the team should bring in a "real" center and move Smith to SF?

Buzzard- I would have loved for the team to have signed Earl Watson to a 1 year deal after he got bought out. He had a lousy year shooting last year after he broke his hand but would be a very useful player on a team like the Hawks that doesn't ask the PG to initiate the offense. He is a strong defender and before last season was a strong 3 point shooter. Against teams with a penetrating PG I'd MUCH rather have Watson out there than Bibby or Teague. Drew Gooden would also have been a useful player for this team. He wasn't even given a guaranteed contract. He is a strong rebounder and an efficient offensive player. And I wish the Hawks would have signed Leon Powe. He is still recovering from Injury but when he comes back I think he could have really helped the team.

Dolfan- I am pretty sure that you are thinking about the fact that the Hawks would have had to use the MLE or BAE to resign Flip if he were brought back. The Hawks didn't have bird rights on him.

I am just trying to help you understand how the cap rules work since obviously you don't really know. I don't know why you have dug your heels in on this trying to steadfastly believe the Hawks used the MLE when its clear that they didn't. Dolfan- this is the first year that the Hawks haven't carried a full roster. This is the first year that the Hawks haven't fielded a summer league team. The Hawks have just 9 players making more than the minimum. 100% I do think that because the economy went bad and the Hawks are struggling financially that they decided not to field a summer league team and field a full roster. I really am pretty surprised that this is a controversial statement to anyone.

Dolfan- I already told you that Zaza was signed using Bird rights. You don't have to use the MLE to sign your own players in that situation. Bibby was also with Bird rights. Morris was already under contract. Hunter, SMith, and Collins were all signed to minimum salary contracts. The Hawks didn't sign anyone else- they didn't spend a dime of the MLE. And of course Teague could play against both the Hawks regulars and participate in Summer league. Summer league lasts 1 week- there is the rest of the offseason for the Hawks to participate in whatever offseason program they like. I just think its funny that you are trying to make it out like that 1 week would be so supercritical that Teagues development would have been hindered by playing in Summer league and deprived of playing against MIke Bibby. Do you really dispute that if it were free for the hawks to participate in the summer league that Teague would have been there? If you want to believe that the Hawks changed their mind about whether summer league was beneficial for their players or not then feel free to do so. I really just think its funny.

Dolfan- If Teague were prohibited in participating in the Hawks offseason program if he were to participate in summer league then what you say may have merit. But of course I think Teague would have benefitted by playing against guys like Ty Lawson in summer league. I just think its funny that you have convinced yourself that all these other teams are screwing their young players by playing them in summer league when the only reason the Hawks didn't field a team was money. And once again- please let me know who you think the Hawks signed with the MLE. It just didn't happen.

But anyway- here's a list of teams and how much they ahve left of their BAE and MLE for those that are interested. Most contending teams did use their MLE so if someone did come free the Hawks could outbid them. Miami and New York both still have their MLE and are attractive free agent destinations for 1 year but if the Hawks were willing to give 2010 money they would have an advantage. http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/exceptions.jsp

Dolfan- I don't think you really get how the cap works. The Hawks had bird rights on Zaza and Bibby so they wouldn't have to use the MLE to sign them. Morris was already under contract. Hunter, Collins, and Smith are all minimum salary players and you don't have to use the MLE to sign minimum salary players unless you want to give them 3 years. (Which obviously didn't happen) I don't really know what other information I could give you to help you understand. And you are free to delude yourself into thinking that the money had nothing to do with the Hawks not fielding a summer league team. Nothing I can tell you will change your mind on that. I just think its laughable for anyone to try and say that Teague wouldn't have benefited at all from it.

Teague had the rest of the summer to play against the Hawks regulars. Money was the only reason the Hawks didn't field a summer league team- it wasn't because they decided that it would hinder Teague's development. Playing in summer league wouldn't have meant that Teague would be prohibited from doing the rest of the Hawks offseason program. The only reason the Hawks didn't field a summer league team is because they were too cheap. Who do you think the Hawks spent the MLE on? The Hawks have $5,854,000 of the MLE left.

Dolfan- you think Teague literally would not have benefited at all from Summer league? I just don't see how its at all controversial to say that Teague would have benefited from playing against NBA players of other teams. I am certainly not one to say that playing great in summer league is a sign that a player is going to do great in the league but I also think it unquestionably still helps players. You are wrong- the Hawks have not spent a dime of the MLE. After the Crawford trade the Hawks filled out the roster with minimum salary players. On the bright side if there is a veteran PG available then the Hawks can overbid the other contenders since they all spent their MLE and the Hawks have not. The Hawks also have their BAE since they didn't use it either this year or last.

Does anyone dispute that teague would be further along if the ASG weren't too cheap to field a summer league team? Does anyone dispute that the Hawks would be better if they had actually used their MLE this past offseason? Of course the owners have some culpability here. The ASG has ponied up when they have had to in impressive ways- I never thought they would make the Bibby trade and even I would have preferred to bring back Flip for the BAE rather than make the crawford trade. They have shown they are willing to take on major salary when they have to. But the Crawford trade has really hamstrung the team as far as trade fodder goes. The only expiring contracts the hawks ahve are Joe and minimum salary players. The roster is pretty much set at this point and I don't really see how they can tweak it.

The Hawks have terrible defense at PG. Bibby is a disaster, Crawford is allergic to defense, and Teague looks clueless on defense. Sund needs to bring in a veteran PG who can step in and help stop this. A guy like Earl Watson would be perfect in my opinion.

What on earth makes you think that Teague is a good defender?

I don't think the Hawks are as good as the top 3 teams in the east. Those teams are all paying major luxury tax $$, I think those teams probably shoudl be better. The Hawks could have closed the gap by spending the MLE in the offseason. Unfortuantely the Hawks just don't have many options for tweaking the roster at this point.

As a coach the way I'd attack cleveland is to attack Mo Williams. take their PF and Centers off the dribble. And to have a SF that can occupy Lebron so he can't help on defense and has to use extra energy in that area. The problme is that Bibby cannot exploit Mo WIlliams. Josh Smith and Horford are lousy at exploiting slow defenders in the halfcourt. And Marvin doesn't do anything to make Lebron work. The Hawks don't have great options because they don't really have the roster to exploit the weaknesses on the Cavs defense.

I'd much rather have Woodson than Any of the guys you mentioned. You have seen teams QUIT on Byron Scott and Mitchell. Bryon Scott is the last coach in the league I would actually hire. I can't believe anyone would actually want him. He is the worst coach in the league at dealing with young players- look at how much better the Hornets are now that they fired Scott and are actually playing their young guys. Contrast that to Woodson where even after the young players move on they still don't do anything.

You think that Joe had turnovers last night passing the ball to himself?

Since I KNOW people are going to blame ISO joe lets go ahead and go to the play by play of the critical stretch of the fourth quarter to see how much the Hawks were going to other players. Joe Johnson misses 24-foot three point jumper Al Horford misses 8-foot two point shot Zaza Pachulia lost ball (Delonte West steals) Al Horford misses 17-foot jumper Al Horford bad pass (Anderson Varejao steals) Jamario Moon blocks Maurice Evans's dunk Jamal Crawford traveling Joe Johnson bad pass (LeBron James steals) LeBron James blocks Joe Johnson's layup Jamal Crawford misses 17-foot jumper Josh Smith misses 21-foot jumper Al Horford misses 6-foot two point shot Joe Johnson bad pass (LeBron James steals) Joe Johnson misses 23-foot three point jumper Joe Johnson bad pass (Delonte West steals) Jamal Crawford draws shooting foul- misses both Mike Bibby misses 24-foot three point jumper This was the critical stretch where the Hawks went scoreless. The turnovers are what stand out- the Hawks have such a strong offense in large part because they have such a low turnover rate- those turnovers were absolute killers. Also notable is the Hawks total lack of offensive rebounds even with all the missed shots.

Historically the teams that are able to blow the doors off bad teams tend to do better in the playoffs than the ones that win close games against good competition. Margin of victory is a much better predictor of playoff success than record is but many fans don't at all realize it. When you beat a team by 2 it was a coinflip. You didn't prove you were better- you proved that you were pretty much equal to that team and it could have gone either way.

Since they Hawks don't care about the 2010 free agency (except for the whole Joe thing) normally they would be in PRIME position to acquire someone with 2010 salary to put them over the top. The problem is they already fired that bullet when they gave up all their expiring contracts to get Jamal Crawford. The Hawks have VERY little trade fodder they could use to acquire someone to put them over the top. Zaza has a long term deal its not clear he is worth. Evans has a player option for next season. The better he plays the more he is likely to want to be a free agent but a team trying to get 2010 caproom can't count on him opting out. Other than that its pretty much down to trading Marvin and Bibby which people are mostly hesitant to do. And once again Marvin has played below his contract- its not clear how much trade value he has. The Cavs have a TON of options for trades if they decide to go that route. The problem is that the Hawks are sort of hamstrung by the fact that they won't pay the luxury tax and it makes it tough when there are 3 teams in the east that are more than happy to do so.

coachx- are you under the impression that the hawks let Marvin play Lebron 1 on 1?

You can't give Knight credit for drafting Horford- If the Hawks didn't win the lottery that season then the Suns would have gotten the draftpick. And when midseason the Hawks did their best to convey the pick since they have up a significant amount of caproom to trade for Anthony Johnson in a desperate push to try and make the playoffs. If Knight had his way Horford wouldn't be on the team.

I do think that Knight scores extra "points" on the bad pick scale because he bypassed a guy at a position of need because he was so convinced that Marvin would become the better player. I don't think you will often mess up by taking the best player available- but you are basically doubling down on the pick to skip over a player of need in order to take someone else. And I am in the camp that bust is an official term now for guys who don't have their third or 4th year team options picked up. (or rarer guys who don't get extended a qualifying offer) These are guys who were shown to not at all be worth their draftslot and were absolute busts. I don't think Marvin should be thought of as a bust but he was clearly a terrible pick.