spotatl

AHF- first of all I'm sure that you see more potential for Horford on offense than I do. The guy hasn't shown any ability to exploit weak defenders either in College or the Pro's- I'm inclined to think he just doesn't have the skill. I think Marvin is what he is- a 4th option on offense who cannot consistently exploit weak defenders. And in the playoffs I don't think its that the hawks style of offense breaks down so much as the Hawks simply face better teams. I don't think that Coaching is the reason that the Hawks lost to the Celtics- the Celtics were just better and the Hawks did well to take them to a game 7. I think that the Cavs are just better than the Hawks so the Hawks are not going to look as good as they did during the regular season and changing the coach wouldn't lead to a different result. I don't think there is any coach that could overcome the matchup problems the Magic present to the hawks on a consistent basis- The Magic are willing to pay the luxury tax to put together a superior team. If you put Jameer Nelson, Vince Carter or Rashard Lewis on the Hawks I think that you would see the offense magically look a whole lot more varied because there would be more options. The NBA has made defending someone 1 on 1 virtually impossible yet you are mad at a coach for trying to take advantage of that fact. When the Hawks ahve a top 4 offense in the league people here are still complaining about the Hawks offense. Running the pick and roll often just puts another defender close to the ball and serves no purpose. Many teams have all sorts of moving parts that don't do any good whatsoever. I think that the proper NBA offense at this point is to have 4 shooters with one guy ont he backside of the defense flashing to the rim and working the offensive glass. Spread the floor and let someone exploit a weak defender 1 on 1 and then kill the team when they start rotating after the doubleteam. Just because the offense is not pretty enough for you does not mean that a different coach would have a more effective offense.

The problem is that player option. At one point it looked likely that he would turn down the player option to become a free agent but the more he struggles the more incentive he has to return for another year. Far from him clearing up caproom for another team he would cause a problem. Though maybe if the Hawks were sending him to his preferred destination he would agree to decline his player option to get the trade to go through.

Since all of the irrational Woodson attackers are not responding to the question I'll go ahead and start a list myself. If any of these teams finish with better offenses than the hawks then I do not think its because of poor Hawks coaching. I'd take the talent on offense of all these teams over what the Hawks have. Phoenix Toronto Denver Boston Orlando Cleveland Lakers Dallas San Antonio Portland So by my measure if the Hawks are a top 10 offense then Woodson is not at all holding the offense back. The further he gets into the top 10 I'll give Woodson actual credit for doing a good job. If the Pacers or Pistons had better offenses then the Hawks then I'll start to say its because of coaching. . But honestly there are a lot of teams who have a lot of good players on offense. Teams that are willing to pay the luxury tax to have a deep bench. (I don't think its a coincidence that 8 of those teams are projected to pay the luxury tax this season) Honestly I don't at all know that the Hawks have clearly better personnel on offense than teams like Golden State (because they don't care about defense at all) and Utah.

If Sund wanted the Hawks to have someone who could help on the boards he should have drafted Dejuan Blair. The Hawks don't have anyone who is a top 20 rebounder at their position (according to ESPN). I'd say that Horford is the only guy who is an above average rebounder for their position. When the Hawks are getting killed on the defensive glass who is Woodson supposed to put in? Zaza is a good offensive rebounder in his career but has never been great on the defensive boards. Joe Smith has not been a strong rebounder the past 2 seasons. I just don't see what Woodson is supposed to do. When that ball goes up in the air its up to the players to get it.

Thats because the Hawks don't have any legitimate post threat. The forwards need to get their points in transition and when there is a defense unsettled by the guards. Horford has never shown any ability to exploit weak defenders. Josh Smith is trying to develop a post game but against the Pistons even when he was able to post up Stuckey he couldn't do anything with it. Its a shame that Josh Smith can't shoot from the outside- if he were able to draw slow defenders to the perimeter he would be able to initiate the offense more.

I don't think that Woodson is a HOF caliber coach- I think he is better than half the coaches in the league and thats enough for me to not fire him when I think that the ASG would not pay what it takes to get someone in better. And I think that fans put FAR too much stock in how much coaching matters in the NBA. Look at how Doc Rivers "outcoached" Phil Jackson. It comes down to how the players actually do on the court. And when the Hawks lose a game because the other team just WANTS the ball more and you are still blaming Woodson then I think you need to wake up to reality. If you think that loss is because of Woodson then I don't think you'll EVER say that a loss was because of the players. Which means that you think the Hawks would go undefeated if they simply had a better coach. But I'll wait anxiously for the unicorn to come prancing by when you actually do say that a loss is on the players and not Woodson.

The Hawks lost because the pistons had more offensive rebounds than the Hawks had defensive rebounds.

If you think the Hawks have a great bench thats great- Personally I don't agree. Crawford is a good player.. Zaza is a decent backup center. Evans can be useful if he is hitting from the outside. But I don't think that Teague is ready. I think that Joe Smith is over the hill and shouldn't be counted on at all unless the Hawks have injuries or foul trouble. I think its ridiculous the Hawks gave Collins a guaranteed contract. If the ASG were willing to pay the luxury tax to make the team a contender then the bench would be stronger. If my job depended on winning then I would be playing with a short bench as well.

If my job were on the line I'd absolutely have Joe Johnson in over teague.

When Woodson isn't playing Rookies and they eventually move on then we have consistently seen that his judgment on young players was better that people's here. Salim didn't do anything after he left. Acie didn't even get his 4th year team option picked up after he left. Shelden is on his third team since he left. I'll trust Woodson if he thinks that Teague is not ready yet to help a playoff team out. I just dont see what options Woodson has if both Joe and Crawford are not playing well. Josh Smith couldn't even post up Stuckey today- I don't want hte offense run through him. Bibby is no longer capable of doing it- he might as well change his name to JIm Paxson to better make his role clear. Marvin has never shown the ability to consistently exploit a favorable matchup. Horford is not even close to being able to do it. Who do you think is capable of initiating the offense at a high level? Zaza?

Buzzard- if you want Woodson fired what do you think the odds are the the ASG pays what it would take to get a HOF caliber coach in here? If the Hawks had a chance to get Adelman in here thats great but I don't see anything to make me think the ASG would pay what it takes to get the kind of coach in here you want. And I'll continue to laugh at anyone who wants to blame the hawks giving up offensive rebounds on woodson. Thats just pretty much proves to me you will pin every single loss on Woodson no matter what happens on the court.

With the Hawks personnel where do you think they should rank in the league in offense? Top 3? Put it this way- lets say the Hawks get good coaching. How many teams do you think simply have better talent on offense and should still finish ahead of the Hawks?

I think its ridiculous that anyone is blaming Woodson for the loss to the Pistons. Seriously... you know that he isn't allowed to get defensive rebounds right? Unless you think the Hawks woudl go undefeated with a different coach I think this is a REALLY easy one to put on the players. Seriously- every loss isn't woodson's fault.

I think its funny that people here think that if Woodson was fired that the Hawks would hire a great coach. More likely the ASG would do as they have always done and get a cheap coach. Be careful what you wish for if you badly want to see Woodson fired. I don't think he is a great coach but the Hawks could do FAR worse.

If the Hawks ownership were willing to pay the luxury tax maybe the team would have the TALENT to be a legit contender. I just don't see how anyone can think that its poor coaching for the fact that the Hawks aren't championship contenders.

The problem with Horford on offense isn't that he can't do anything against Howard. its that he can't do anything against guys like Rasho Nesterovic. He simply doesn't have the ability to exploit a slow defender except in transition. I really don't see how people think Horford is being misused in the halfcourt when he hasn't given anyone any reason to think he could be an asset otherwise.

THe hawks have a roster problem. I think that if I were coach and I were playing the Magic that if I were coming back then I'd want Marvin to be playing as a stretch the floor PF. The problem is that the hawks do not have an interior presense to match up with Howard so in order to play Marvin at PF you almost have to just throw up the white flag. If Josh SMith coudl actually shoot from the outside I'd say you just go small and try and draw Howard from the middle but Josh is not capable of that.

Just because Sund made the mistake of signing the guy doesn't mean Woodson should make the mistake even worse by playing him until even the fanboys here understand how bad he is.

Sund made a mistake giving him a million dollars. Woodson shouldn't compound the mistake by giving minutes to a guy who might be the worst player in all of basketball.

read this article and still tell me you think Collins should be getting minutes on an NBA play off team. http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=3315

You think he would have been extended if he played a bust like Acie law more minutes last season? He would be a pathetic coach if he stuck with untalented guys as long as people on here want him to. He hasn't been extended because there are a bunch of fans that want him fired even when the hawks are overachieving and have best record in the league. ANd he hasn't been extended because the Hawks have an ownership group too cheap to even field a summer league team.

Sorry- going off of memory. Waived once during the season doesn't really change the point. The Hawks got Flip off of the scrapheap and Woodson got more production out of him than anyone thought.

Frankly I am just sort of shocked that anyone would still with a straight face claim that they think the Suns would still have matched. I didn't think there were people in such denial anymore but if it makes you happy to be there then more power to you. The only reason to think that the Suns would have matched is that the Owners said they would. But of course the Hawks said the same thing about childress and no one here believes that and the Clippers said the same thing about Odom and MIller right before they were allowed to walk. I don't see any reason to dig around to find all the links because if you haven't come to grips with reality by now then I don't think there is any hope for you in the future.

There is no question at all that Joe Johnson is a far better player with the Hawks than he ever was with the Suns. If you don't see that then you are just willfully being ignorant of the facts. There is no question that Woodson got a remarkable amount of production out of Flip Murray. Murray was waived during the season a couple times the season before he went to the Hawks as far as I know and by the end of the season he was being counted on in the second round of the playoffs. Its remarkable. (But I wouldn't use the word "developed" for Flip)

Frogsgrim- I can't believe you actually believe that. Do you really think that if Woodson wins 50 games this season that he would be let go even if Teague doesn't play at all? Woodson's next contract is going to come strictly off of wins and losses. I agree that the ASG isn't sure that he is the right man for the job but I don't think it has anything to do with the fact that Woodson couldn't salvage terrible Billy Knight draftpicks. It probably has more to do with the fact that even when the team had the best record in Basketball many fans still want to see Woodson fired. But if he wins 50 games this year then I don't think there is any chance at all he is let go no matter what else happens And for all that people here b*tch about Woodson- at this point he is almost certainly an above average coach in the league. He isn't a genius or an outside the box thinker but I'd easily take him over many other coaches around the league.