yungsta

13 hours ago, Sothron said:

I'm not knocking Bey. My feelings on Hunter, who has been somehow worse than Marvin Williams, are well known. But I am telling you guys and gal what I've been hearing for months from my Hawks sources. Bey wants starter level money and he 100% sees himself as a starter and wants starter minutes/role etc.

We don't have that for him here imo. Hunter and JJ are what we see going forward unless we make the big trade for KAT in which case Hunter is out the door. But unless that happens...you can't have Hunter/Bey/JJ/AJ and pay those first two names and stay under the LT.

Do you know why the FO traded for Bey? Wasn't it well known at the time Bey wanted big money and we most likely couldn't afford to keep him?

2 hours ago, theheroatl said:

Jrue actually hasn't been lights out against us. We aren't terrible against him. Marcus Smart was a pest and seemed to get hot only against the Hawks. Same for Grant Williams.

But didn't Porzingis drop like 40 on us near the end of the last season though?

4 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Here's exactly what I am being told on roles 

They want Trae and Murray to play less mins. They want Murray to play more mins at PG.

They want Trae to give max effort in his mins on both ends

Bogi is expected to play more

Even some potential for Bufkin to play 

Griffin is expected to get backup mins

Hunter is expected to play between the 3 and 4 with Bey and JJ. 

They haven't landed on a starter at the 4 yet but Bey is the lean right now. 

Okongwu and Clint are expected to split mins. 

They want OO and Clint to add more shooting range. 

Dre, Bogi, Bey, OO, and Murray are said to have had great improvements over the summer. 

They are really excited about Kobe and Gueye potential. Their refusal to trade either is real 

I haven't heard much on Trae other than they want to maximize his production on both ends. Same for Murray. 

I heard Kobe will be playing a key role on both squads. 

They have very high expectations on what this team can be if everyone plays their role. 

@KB21, you will like what they are cooking up

Reading between the lines here but based on pure speculation it seems like,

They don't see Murray as a long term solution at SG and want Bogi to fill in that role until we can find a younger long term replacement and Murray and Trae will have to compete against each other to solidify themselves as the PG of the future so one of them could be hitting the trade market in the next off season.

They want to have 4 shooters on the floor at all times so JJ and OO roles may not expand as much Hawks fans originally thought.

This season will be more of a transitional season to build a new culture/craft a new play style and to asses who is staying or who should be traded.

10 hours ago, AtLaS said:

Why is this conversation coming back up?  You can't win with Siakam in this lineup unless major changes are made to the roster.  You have to have 3pt shooting at 4 of 5 starting positions in the modern NBA.  We are also going to have to pay him 50M+ next year which will be a horrible contract, and we would have given up a lot of young pieces to do that.

I've said 100x I actually love Siakam as a player, he just won't fit with THIS roster.  He'd be great for the Warriors or Celtics.  We already have shooting issues, it will get worse with him on this roster.

We need to be focused on KAT or Embiid or someone who can address those needs.

This hypothetical Siakam trade just reeks of desperation to get something done. It reminds me the Dejounte trade. Overpaying for a rental who is an awkward fit just because its a name with some accolades.

This trade leaves us with no true SF, a lot of SF/PF tweeners and little reliable shooting. and this is the team we want to mortgage the future for and go "All in" on?

On 7/30/2023 at 3:59 PM, theheroatl said:

Winning a championship is hard. It’s not a perfect mix of players but it is definitely about talent. There is a good bit of luck involved but in the NBA and most sports, the more you spend the higher chance you have of hitting into something.

Yall waste so much time creating excuses why we shouldn’t spend or chase talent.

 

Instead of wasting time worrying about fit, collect the best talent and coaching and throw it out there. It’s not perfect and you can’t expect to just win.

There certainly are long winded posts around here trying to explain a path to success or the right plan but that’s pretty much just a colossal waste of time on those posters part.

 

If yall think you got the right plan figured out or you are a front office genius or you know which rookies will hit into all-nba talent, you should have chosen a career path in an nba front office.

Championship teams who are 1/2 players away from greatness show way more fight than our pathetic showing last season I would have been ok with chasing talent if we haven't already borrowed from the future in the Dejounte trade which didn't do much to change the team's destiny and a year later we are already scrambling trying to dig out of a sinking hole.

Enough with the quick fixes. Its time to reassess and have Trae prove he can be a consistent all nba performer, enough trying to please him like hes already an all time great and its time for Quin to prove he can take the hawks to being more than a fringe playoff team. If those two can't do that there is no point in continuing to invest into this core if the foundation is rotten.

If we don't do anything stupid. 2027 when Trae is a free agent (Maybe) and Dejounte has 1 year left, it gives the next era of Hawks basketball and whoever is at the FO a fighting chance to start fresh without being in a huge deficit.

Give me Kat who is a 20/10 7 footer who is a near 40% career 3 point shooter who can open up the floor for Trae and Dejounte.

Kat has flaws but is a much more seamless fit.

Siakim's skillset doesn't mess well with our needs at all.

Trading for Siakim is like trading for the PF version of Dejounte. Yes, he has made an all nba team, is a good defender, and fills the stat sheet but hes not a consistent shooter at all and hes undersized at 6'8!. We can't continuing being the most undersized team in the league plus his offensive game is very clunky.

With Dejounte and Trae having the ball in their hands 80% of the time whoever we get will need to space the floor and get out of the way on offense and KAT does that.

31 minutes ago, Plainview1981 said:

I'm not confident that Trae/Murray/Bey/Pascal/OO is a notable improvement over last years starting line up. PS better on the defensive end than Collins, but Bey is worse than Hunter on that end.

Things would be more fluid in terms of mobility, but, eh.... I don't know.

 

 

 

Personally I don't like it. Very undersized and lack shooting. That team would be very easy to defend come playoff time. Crowd the paint and watch Murray and Trae dribble into a sea of defenders.

KAT makes way more sense to me in terms of fit and gives tons of space for our guards to operate.

53 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

High. It would be hard to see it not happen. The pieces that are left are minor pieces. Tomorrow, we shall see. Like Sothron said, the rug can be pulled by ownership but they were the ones to give this the go ahead recently. 

From what I've gathered. Both him and Bey are in this deal. 

If we plan on keeping Capela in any KAT deal while giving up both of our fowards who can play the 3 & 4 without getting their replacements I will be highly disappointed. We will be making a similar mistake that the twolves did last year when they moved Kat to PF full time.

KAT is a 5 offensively period and plays best when he is the only true big on the floor. At the 5 he provides a skillset that few bigs in the league can provide.

We will just be the Twolves of last year and be wasting KAT talent if we don't dump Capela and get some more fowards on this team.

14 hours ago, AHF said:

Extremely skeptical.  How can you watch FVV get $40M per and then sign up for a contract starting at $25M?

I'm extremely skeptical also. How can be talking about loyalty for a team you only played for one season.

The ones that talk about loyalty very loudly are usually the biggest snakes. Damian talk about loyalty for a decade all day on twitter but once he got his large contract that will last until hes 37. That loyalty shtick dropped quick.

Don't get all the love for Siakim we dump 1 undersized 4 that isn't a good shooter so we can trade for another undersized 4 that isn't a good shooter that is older and more expensive.

At the 4 all we need is someone who can guard their position, make the extra pass and get out of DJM and Trae's way.

We know DJM and Trae will be taking 20+ shots each every night so the bigs will be underutilized on offense and will need to create space with 3 point shooting.

24 minutes ago, terrell said:

Hawks need to go ahead and make a decision on Murray. He's gonna ask for a serious bag...... lol

Jesus....

I'm gonna maintain that JC was solely dumped so Murray could get paid.

Btw after seeing the contracts these other guards are getting, Murray's trade value is probably close to zero. Giving up Huerter at 16m per year and being forced to pay Murray $40m a year with no material improvement in our record is going to haunt the hawks for years.

If we aren't  atleast a 50+ win team next season and a top 4 seed, we need to let him go period.

5 minutes ago, Sothron said:

pacers and hawks are talking about Hunter again. both teams are trying to get the most value out of rosters/picks. 

For those doubting the Hawks want to move up and get another pick, that is real. Feeling is we got some young guys ready to step up and we can move contracts to (sigh) save money for Ressler as well as get more guys on rookie scale contracts.

Sounds like we want to dump salary so we can pay Murray next year so moving forward our roster will be Trae/Murray along with players on vet mins, rookie scale contracts, whatever Bogi can bring when hes not injured and 1 highly paid front court players (JC or Capela)

18 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Warriors are sending a 2030 protected first-round and a 2027 second-rounder to the Wizards, sources tell ESPN

 

The Wizards finally get a 1st round pick after trading Beal and Prozingas.

Jordan Poole is a top 5 worst contract in the league. I would be heated if I was a Wizards fan. He is a 6th man being paid all star starter money.

I doubt they gave Beal that contract due to loyalty. There is no loyalty in sports.

If I had to take a guess, Beal was ready to leave if he didn't get everything that he asked for and It was the ownership that was meddling and forced the gm to give him that contract because they didn't want to go through a rebuild under any circumstance and want to compete for a play-in seed.

The Denver nuggets is just another example of if you have the best/one of the best players in the league that performs in the playoffs with a good supporting cast you can win a championship.

The nuggets were lucky enough to have one of them fall into their laps in the 2nd round. There isn't a unique lesson to be learned here.

Don't forget that in Jimmy's 1st and 2nd year he was a 30th pick who was a 4th/5th option on offense that was competing for shots in an offense that featured multiple all stars while playing for a coach who was known for not playing young players.

The deck was literally stacked against him in Chicago for him to succeed. Once he got opportunities he immediately proved he was an all NBA defender and an elite secondary option on offense.

This polar opposite to Hunter who had all the opportunities in the world to blossom into an all star. The hawks invested very heavily to move up in the draft to pick him and immediately gave him a starting role with heavy mins with no competition for his role.

Thinking Hunter can have a Butler type of development isn't realistic at all.

Going all in and mortgaging your future to acquire a 2nd tier star only makes sense to me if you are already on the cusp of contention and need an extra boost to get the Chip. It makes zero sense to make such a risky move when you are a fringe playoff team that could easily fall into the lottery with a little bit of bad luck.

10 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Murray is the one most likely to be moved for a 2nd star. The Hawks can't afford a 3rd star asset wise. 

 

I agree, trading AJ would be a massive mistake 

I agree that we can't afford to add another star.

When discussing potential trades, I think Hawks fans need to realize that the landscape of the trade market is completely lopsided to the sellers. The nba is as balanced as I have ever seen in the past couple of decades. Just 4 years ago, the KD warriors were destroying the nba and there were only 3-4 teams that were legit contenders.

Now, there are at least 10 teams that are gunning to be contenders so the asking price for talent is SUPER inflated right now. This is why I believe trading away Huerter for short term savings is going to hurt this team more in the long term than most people realize. Just imagine what the market value for Huerter is now.

With our lack of depth and depleting assets I don't see a realistic path to adding talent to the team. We will have to focus on improvement via internal development and better coaching.

32 minutes ago, AtLaS said:

I just don't get it, none of these trades fix our 3pt shooting or rebounding issues.

Crowder?  Improves our shooting but kills our rebounding.  We going to swap Collins for Crowder at the 4 when we're already getting destroyed on the boards?  You cant play OO and CC together for extended minutes so that's just a nonstarter for me.  

 

All of these deals are going to require major changes afterwards to make it all fit.  Maybe that's the goal, IDK.  

I think we should just wait until the summer if this is all that's on the table.

10 hours ago, Sothron said:

He is from Atlanta, he's been working at Georgia Tech and low key working out with some hawks players. 

If he's a JC replacement it isn't the end of the world. He's a starting level PF that doesn't need the ball, he can defend and he can hit wide open threes. Look at what he's done in his career. He's always been a plus to any team he's on. 

If its true that Capela is most likely gone and big OO is being groomed as our full time starter, I'm dying laughing at the thought of us rolling out a 6'6 Jae crowder and 6'9 OO as our full time frontcourt.

29 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

All true. I would be very Dissapointed if we end up with Crowder as our starting PF 

I agree, this makes no sense. I thought the reason we overpaid for Dejounte by giving up 3 picks was to maximize Trae's prime years by going all in and surrounding him with as much talent as possible. Why are we so focused on destroying years of asset accumulation to cut cost?

How does the front office expect us to get better? Do they expect talent to walk through the door and beg to play for us at a discount?

I'm very disappointed in the direction, we are arguable in a worst position than last year. We gave up picks to still be a fringe play-in team.

If the ownership wasn't willing to pay the luxury tax at all cost to hoard as much talent as possible. I would love to know the rationale on why we made the trade in the first place. I rather have huerter and the 3 picks back then what we have now.

It seems like every year when the hawks disappoint, we are quick to blame injuries.

There is way too much optimism to believe we will be in position to to get top lottery pick. We have too much talent and have been too competitive against playoff caliber teams to drop down the standings.

We are stuck in the middle. We can beat low tier teams with pure talent but can't execute well enough to consistently beat quality teams that aren't tanking.

22 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Quote on the Tax: May 2022 (end of season).

We’re going to pay what we have to pay,” Ressler said. “Sometimes owners set a tone — and I’m trying to set a very clear tone — sometimes we say some things one season that may not pertain to the next. Going into the tax doesn’t scare us. Obviously, you want to spend money intelligently. Obviously, you want to run a good business. For whatever it’s worth, I do not look at going into the tax as only possible if we’re competing for a championship that season. Our job is to go into the tax when it’s good business, to position ourselves for greatness. We do not fear the tax. We do not fear spending money. We fully expect Atlanta to be a truly attractive marketplace for (whoever) considers playing here. Money is not going to be our obstacle.”

I then followed up with a very specific question: Has he given Schlenk clearance to enter the tax this season?

“Yes. It’s a one word answer,” Ressler said. “I don’t want to qualify hopefully the obvious. I also say let’s do it intelligently. I don’t think you want to go into the tax to prove the point that we can go into the tax. I don’t worry about those types of things. We can go into the tax for the right reasons at the right time, any time.”

My main takeaway is this: It’s still not 100 percent clear if the Hawks will or won’t be a tax-paying team this coming season. Ressler is essentially saying he won’t pay it just to pay it, and the moves Schlenk makes this offseason have to justify paying a penalty. If the Hawks build a roster on paper that looks as if it’s going to struggle once again to just make the Play-In Tournament, it makes zero sense to pay the tax. If the Hawks make splashy moves and add a second star, then there shouldn’t be any hesitation if the goal is to win a title.


Quote on the Tax:  August 2022 (after Huerter trade and FAcy
There is still one spot remaining on the roster but the Hawks aren’t rushing to fill that spot right now.

“We’re going to hold at 14 spots for a while just because we are so close to the (luxury tax), I think we’re $1.8 (million) underneath the tax,” Schlenk said. “We are a little light at the big spot obviously with (Okongwu) being out, so maybe we’ll look to address that on a non-guaranteed deal kind of like we did with Solomon (Hill) last year for that last spot, where it gives us some flexibility going into the trade deadline.”

The tax is going to become a focus for the franchise moving forward because of the team’s lack of salary cap space. Both Schlenk and Tony Ressler believe that paying the tax in a year where they might not believe they have a championship squad doesn’t make sense. But if they believe they’re in title contention, it won’t be an issue.

“We hope that we can be just as successful as we were last year, and then I think if you can get that deep two times in a row, you are a serious contender,” Schlenk said. “Certainly, Tony is willing to pay the tax if we are going to be a contender. I’m probably more conscious of it than Tony is, to be honest with you. It’s my job to manage his money. He’s got a lot more of it than I do, so I worry about it more than he does.”

Every cheap owner says they will pay the tax if they are a "contender" which is a cop-out answer.

In other words, I'm not paying the tax unless we have Giannis, Luka, Lebron, & Curry all on our roster at the same time.

Why did we even trade for Dejounte if he wasn't committed to going all in? What a complete waste. SMH