Mikey

10 minutes ago, KB21 said:

The only one close to Trae is Ja Morant.

??? this is a joke right

Steph, Luka, SGA, 

19 minutes ago, KB21 said:

This is a case of you don't know what you have until it's gone.  There are a lot of Hawks fans who have no idea that Trae Young is the best point guard in the NBA.  When he's gone, you will realize that.  

He's not the best pg lol.

5 hours ago, Sothron said:

So from sources I can't name but trust:

This is the first time the Hawks FO has seriously considered trading Trae. Trae has told the Hawks he's tired of this treadmill act. He either wants them to trade for a star and pay the LT going forward or he wants to be traded.

I think the cheapness of Ressler of not paying the LT will offset the money Trae makes for the franchise and he will "reluctantly" agree to move Trae and the team will restock with draft picks and maybe a young guy. This, I stress, is my personal opinion and NOT what I was told by sources I trust.

Not the first time technically. Schlenk was ready to trade him before they traded for Dejounte. Ownership was not on board

12 minutes ago, JeffS17 said:

Imo Trae and his camp (read: his dad) will be in for a world of hurt when they realize there is not another franchise in the league that will give him the free reign Atlanta has.  I doubt most teams would even want him for any kind of reasonable price with the exception of some bottom feeder teams that need butts in seats, i.e Pistons.

I waffle on whether I want to move forward with DJ or Trae, and I think it makes the most sense to move DJ, but there is definitely a part of me that struggles to see a championship path with Trae on a 35% of cap max in 3 years.

You are absolutely correct. Not one team in the league will give him the power they have in ATL. If they get a chip with the Lakers while Lebron is there, I don’t think it will matter to them but soon after it will crumble quickly 

30 minutes ago, JTB said:

Any insight on what Traes camp think “help” is?

 

like trading Murray for BI…..is this considered “help” ?

No clue tbh. won’t hear anything about the hawks for some time. Probably not until lottery and workouts start to ensue 

24 minutes ago, JTB said:

Is Murray considered “not help” anymore?…just wondering because as I recall from our insiders, Trae asked for Murray 

Correct Trae asked for him. But clearly they don’t work and if they trade him he’s gonna want them to get a replacement 

34 minutes ago, KB21 said:

So, you think they will trade Trae instead of Dejounte?

The plan to me is certainly trade DJ over Trae. 

I think Trae and his camp are applying a ton of pressure to get him some help this summer but I do not think the help they will want exists on the market so he will request a trade 

21 minutes ago, warcore said:

why would they lose Trae this summer after they traded Dejounte to NYK this season? 

Huh?

3 minutes ago, AHF said:

It means you don't apply any pressure at the rim when shooting outside of 10 feet, and he applied very little pressure at the rim last year which is what you were claiming he did this season (at least before the injury).  I'm saying the past 4 YEARS he hasn't pressured the rim in a meaningful way and that includes the 2020-21 season when Lonzo Ball played 55 games.

What I'm reading now is that while he doesn't apply pressure at the rim as a meaningful part of his game for the last 4 years, you believe that would change and he spend a lot more time attacking the rim in Atlanta due to how differently Atlanta's coaches would utilize him.  Is that a reasonable understanding of your take?

Is rim pressure to you only attempts and not efficiency and attempts? 

I think it is reasonable to say his shot profile will look significantly different under Quin then it does now because that has been true of pretty much all the players under Quin. Now should it shift drastically no but it will improve 

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

My concern is this.  Is there a legitimate pathway to becoming a top 4 seed in the East this offseason?  Because I think we will have to be a top 4 seed in 2024-2025, or we are going to lose Trae in a year anyway.  

Probably losing Trae this summer anyways so…

32 minutes ago, AHF said:

So why did BI take substantially fewer shots around the rim as compared to DJM?

Ingram:

DJM:

Does that mean he applies less rim pressure because in his situation he shoots less at the rim then in ATL where shot diet is an emphasis? 

13 minutes ago, KB21 said:

Neither one of them attack the rim.  They both have very low free throw rates because they don't attack and get into the paint.  They drive and then pull up at the free throw line.  

The perfect fit alongside Trea is Trey Murphy, who is a POA defender and takes over 6 catch and shoot three-point shots a game.  

Free throw rate doesn’t mean they don’t attack the rim lol. Watch BI this season before the knee injury he got to the rim and attacked gaps willfully. He’s shooting like 73% at the rim this season lol 

3 hours ago, KB21 said:

The Hawks will have the same offensive issues that the Young/ Murray pairing has.  Murray’s desire to get to his mid range jumper and his lack of desire to attack the basket and shoot threes is why the fit offensively isn’t there.  

Murray is a complete zero off ball. Ingram is more like a 20/100 lol. Not to mention Ingram applies way more rim pressure. 

Perfect fit offensively no but better then currently yes? If you want the perfect offensive fit with a star it’s not gonna be any wing in the league you need a big 

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

Even then, his 3PAr was .350 and .341 with the point guard.  So, he's still a guy who is predominately a mid-range jumper kind of player.  

He was attempting 6 a game when he had a pg. that’s more than enough. I believe 4 per game was catch and shoot. Off the top of my head I think that’s how many saddiq was getting this season (someone with a reputation for shooting 3s). Now imagine that in Quin offense lol 

you too hung up on his perception as a player 

17 minutes ago, aali34 said:

What the hell happened

He stopped playing with a point guard like lonzo. This tweet from Grant Shirley is a direct comment on what BI said in their exit interview that he wishes they target PG and his best season came playing off jrue and lonzo 

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I like BI a lot more than some of you guys. I don't like him as much as @Mikey but I see him as a reasonable offer for Murray even if I know Murray has better value. 

Hard to sell me on Issac for Murray and I want Issac. I just don't see the Comp as reasonable.

To be clear I don’t exactly love the idea of BI on the hawks or the player. Herb is who they are focused on and should be but I understand a world where BI is the best return they can get for DJM and he’s better fit and player to me than DJM

1 minute ago, JayBirdHawk said:

I think your post below the initial tweet was confusing.

yeah probably. his tweet was about trae I was talking about dejounte though.

11 minutes ago, KB21 said:

That trade wasn't about DJM.  It was about Trae.  You don't trade Trae Young and get just Herb Jones.  I would do DJM for Herb and CJ.  

Correct I am saying the proposed deal at deadline was for DJM and will likely be discussed in variations again. CJ wouldn't be in it most likely or he'd go to a third team.

You absolutely do not trade Trae for just Herb and CJ

25 minutes ago, KB21 said:

There has to be more coming back to Atlanta.  CJ is not a prize.  Herb fits the Hawks most dire need for POA perimeter defense.  However, more has to come back for Trae.  

I dont know what more you guys want then possibly the best perimeter defender on one of the best contracts in the league. DJM is not valuable around the league...

This guy hears things on the pels side. Now what he is suggesting is for Trae and not Dejounte but sharing to say what many of us already know. Hawks covet Herb more than anybody on the pels roster. The BI + Dyson deal is cool but it is not what they are focused on. They didn't take Herb for DJ + Onyeka at deadline but I think it will be a big conversation in the summer

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Then if you going by career, they would choose him over Herb Jones and Murphy but they going by this year to the future where those guys are better and have much smaller salary demands. 

and the hawks covet both of those guys over BI. Problem is they aren't available 

1 hour ago, KB21 said:

The only difference I see is that Ingram is essentially a bigger Murray.  The fit issues with Trae will continue because BI doesn't like to be a volume three point shooter.  He instead loves to play off the dribble and get to his middy.  Problem there with both he and Murray is they rarely ever attack the rim.  They settle for that mid range jumper.  Defensively, Ingram isn't a POA defender either.  You would hope his size would give him some advantage over Murray, but bottom line is he isn't an above average defender.  

BI applies a ton of rim pressure which this team does not have currently 

12 minutes ago, warcore said:

The bolded is the only one I can agree with. Everything else is debatable. And I noticed you didn't mention anything about rebounding. 

And the bit about BI being a better defender really hurts your argument. 

Dejounte is a horrible defender. You guys got to stop talking about his reputation as a defender from his lone SA year where he did well. He is only a good off ball defender. On ball he is awful and it doesn't matter what position he plays. Coby White just gave him 40 in their last game. DJM cannot guard a parked car

18 minutes ago, AHF said:

2023-24

Brandon Ingram - 20.3 ppg

Dejounte Murray - 22.5 ppg

DJM as a PG > BI > DJM as a SG

2023-24

Brandon Ingram - 5.7 apg

DJM - 6.1 apg (DJM also enjoys a better A:TO ratio)

 

 

Combine the scoring and playmaking:

2023-24

Brandon Ingram - 2.7 OWS, 1.4 OBPM

Dejounter Murray - 3.3 OWS, 2.3 OBPM

Bigger?  That is the first one that is obviously correct.  But it does beg the question of why DJM outrebounded BI this year when BI so much bigger.

 

They are as similar players as you could possibly hope for in a trade scenario.

I mean comparing stats for one season doesn't do much to me when they are in different sitautions and DJM stats get a bump for when his first option was out for a month plus. Not to mention more assists doesn't mean you are a better playmaker by any stretch. DJM can't even make a lob pass. His assists are the most simple assists in the game. 

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Murray is better than BI. 

Superior contract

Much better trade value

Murray does literally nothing better on the basketball court than BI. Better scorer Bi, Better defender BI, better playmaker BI. Bigger Bi.

Now he does have a far superior contract so i see the value side but BI potential contract also means nothing cause I doubt his injury history injury suggests he's getting that max

1 hour ago, NBASupes said:

Definitely a trade from Pelican fan. How we gonna trade the player with higher value and give up a higher pick in the process

Other than NO highly targeting OO and us for one of their POA defenders. This ain't bad once you remove #10

Casue BI is a better player and this draft class the tier of player from 10-21 won't be drastically different like other drafts. That account isnt a normal pels fan btw. He knows someone in the org