Mikey

27 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

NBA Draft News - Top 7 Only, I have nothing new on the others in the lottery. 

1. Orlando - As we get closer to the draft, his intel is that Orlando is looking to Jabari Smith at #1 overall. He has the best mix of ceiling and floor. I did get confirmation as well that J. Isaac and M. Fultz is on the trading block. They are seeking a quality rotational 2-guard for Isaac and two 2nds for Fultz. I am told that the Phoenix Suns have interest in Fultz. Terrance Ross is currently being shopped as well with limited interest at best. Orlando would prefer to keep Bamba's rights and do a SnT for Bamba. 

2. OKC - Has been one of the most active teams looking for moves in the 2022 draft. I am told that teams would like to buy picks from them but not many are super interested in trading back from where OKC is calling about. As I said, Ivey is being said to be their top guy but the tea leaves is that if Holmgren is at #2, he's the pick. OKC is trying to move up to 4 to grab Ivey as well. 

3. HOU - All signs were pointing to Banchero being the 3rd pick but things have changed. Ivey is making a serious run for it at 3. We will see if he can pass him or if he will fall short like Garland did with the Knicks when they took R.J. 3rd. It's a dead heat for Ivey/Banchero. 

4. SAC - Sacramento have reached out to teams like Atlanta for JC but they are more likely to stay or slightly trade down. They also aren't likely to trade up either. Cost too high. While SAC is all in on Banchero, they seem to be split on Ivey but the lean right now is if Banchero is gone, Ivey will be the pick. There is also thought that if Ivey is the pick, Fox could be on the move and their are legit suitors for Fox in particular the Wizards and the Knicks. The Wizards have intriguing pieces so keep an eye out on that if Ivey is the pick. For a win now team, SAC is generally all over the place. 

5. DET - It's been pretty clear out of DET that their plans are to try to get another great pick with Grant as a piece, they haven't been so lucky with offers yet. That said, it's Ivey, then it's Murray. Sharpe is also a possibility here. DET would really like Ivey and have spoke to SAC about the possibilities of moving up.  It will cost them a top end protected 1st but DET seems to be open to the idea. "This is my opinion but DET is greatly overvaluing J. Grant but that's just me, I am not their GM, Mr. Weaver". 

6. IND - This is been a team that's in an unique position. They aren't rebuilding but all of their vets are available for trade at the right price. They value 6 but they have seriously inquired about John Collins. Turner is available but he's not cheap is what sources around the league are saying. They are interested in Ayton if he's willing to listen to them. Ivey is the guy here if he falls, otherwise, it's Murray. If Murray is gone, Griffin, Sochan, or Eason could be the move based on interest. Trading back is a serious possibility here. They are said to be open to drafting at 6 and keeping this pick but they are clearly looking at all of their options. 

7. POR - The closer it gets to the draft, the closer I think this pick could be gone. That said, if they keep the pick, it's Daniels, Duren, Sharpe, Williams, etc. It's about 20 guys vying for the 7th overall pick. It seems like they have real interest in everybody. This team is a trade back candidate. No need to mention that they are the most aggressive in terms of interest in JC. Portland is not interested in moving Hart. It's Winslow that's said to be who they are packaging with that pick in framework chatter. 

 

While I wouldn't consider it to be a lock that Atlanta trades JC to move up, it's a possibility. Chances are, JC will likely be moved, if not during the draft, during FA. It will be a nice surprise if he's still a Hawk at training camp.  

Hawks should be all over isaac and fultz

3 minutes ago, sturt said:

My friend... be careful to read Kirschner's words carefully. He ordinarily has the scruples to say explicitly if he is reporting based on a source, or if he is opining.

He's been doing a lot of opining.

He also does reporting. Yes this was opining but time and time again he has mentioned he likely wont be back. I dont usually understand the chris hate but then I remember a lot of people dont understand the job of journalism and think hes supposed to be the fan of the team. Chris opinon asides my point is just all signs are pointing to collins gone for a better fit. I think many hawks fans will be underwhelmed with the return (at least in the short term casue the rookie likely wont be a stud immediately)

9 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Hawks News

Gobert is no longer a target of the Hawks. They are not interested in Utah asking price for Gobert. While Danny isn't the GM, the asking price is hilarious. 

Atlanta has fully shifted their focus to LaVine and Ayton.

Atlanta has been in talks with several lottery teams about possible JC trades. Atlanta is clearly targeting players in the high part of the lottery with JC like they were doing last year with Cam but more aggressively and serious with JC. Portland is the most interested but there are more teams vying for JC. I am told Portland is targeting a trade around Winslow/7 for JC. I am told Indiana also has interest in JC as does Sacramento which is not new. 

I do not believe JC will be on the roster next year at this point but he could be. 

Okongwu and Hunter are off limits. The Gobert pullout closes that door in terms of Hunter.

Atlanta is looking at PFs to compete replace the lost of Gallo. Grant is a name of interest but the name I just heard that actually has legit interest to me is Jonathan Issac. Orlando has also had interest in Bogi and in Kevin Huerter. This could be something to look into.

Gallo is gone. He's either getting traded to OKC or getting cut. Either way, he is gone.

JJ, Coop, and the CP gang is good as locks to be back. 

While Atlanta plans to target LaVine and Ayton in FA and want to meet with both guys, Atlanta is planning to aggressive pursuit defense + shooting and less shot creation in FA for reserves. 

There is going to be competition for Delon Wright so Atlanta may look to a trade or at the draft to address the PG position and add more competition to the room. Atlanta is interested in bringing him back, just not sure they will. 

He hasn't heard nothing on Kevin Knox or Dieng but that doesn't mean they aren't wanted back by Atlanta. 

Atlanta had serious interest in last year's draft in Sengun, Josh Primo, and Chris Duarte. 

I don't expect big changes but JC could be moved and he's been in trade talks for lottery picks for awhile. This is not new. This has been going on since January. Teams have done their research on JC. 

You guys remember when I told @thecampster that his chart means nothing because Danny ainge was with utah and his asking price will be high regardless. Well yeah you guys said I was dumb and knew nothing LMAOOO. told ya. context matters

That being said Chris Kirschner has said all offseason collins is most likely to be traded and he wont be back. My guess is the hawks get 7 and filler from portland targeting daniels if they cannot get higher in draft (indiana, sacramento)

8 hours ago, Diesel said:

You're kidding right??  This is the dribblings of somebody who woke up and watched game 3, 4, and 5 vs Miami and had no knowledge of anything that had gone on prior to that.  You just lost all credibility..

Yup it is I no credibility guy. Im sure the moderators will delete that comment like they do mine when I say something like that right?

But yes look at the numbers and tell me he elevates his game come playoff time. You wanna give him the benefit of the doubt for injury this post season go for it. Watch the post season games from last year the dude was not good. He had a couple spark plays here and there and thats it. Literally scored 4 points with trae out and we won. He is not impactful to the hawks winning certainly not at his price point

Hes the definition of mid lol. His best role is as one position (center) on offense but on defense he can't guard that position and can only guard 4s. We paid a lot for a guy that is just an excellent role player. Look at this post season numbers and you'll see he isn't some guy that elevates his game by any means.

The dude wanted max level money and got a huge deal to be the second option and he just isnt that. Hes in all trade packages cause he makes the money and is a good enough player to acquire us the most value. Its no hate to him but he just isn't the guy you need next to trae. This was further proven when we played our best play without him this season

11 hours ago, Sothron said:

I have two specific names I'm not allowed to repeat. I do not think we are keeping the pick FWIW.

Dyson daniels.

Hawks might try to acquire 7 from portland in a jc deal to make it happen is my guess 

1 hour ago, ShooterSays said:

Do you think they're doing their due diligence on a Gallo for Randle swap in case they have to include JC (and Bogi) in a LaVine S&T?

Trae/LaVine/Hunter/Randle/Ayton

this line up is not even possible financially lol

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

There is a number of y'all on here. I am not one of them. I see Gobert as way more significant than Ayton and definitely more than Clint. I still believe Trae best fit in the league is Gobert 

Paying 40+ million for a complete offensive liability...no thank you. 

case in point just look at what James Harden went for and he is showing signs of a decline. Harden obviously better than gobert but at least gobert as not shown any health issues. But yeah certainly your chart is right!!!

4 hours ago, thecampster said:

I kind of have a policy not to engage people on this board on cap/trade conversations but I am highly confident in what I'm saying based on a number of factors and since you decided to flick the tiger in the gonads, 

 

I'll lay it out.

 

When consummating trades, NBA teams look at a number of factors. Most people when trying to match salary attempt to match salary 1 for 1 but this is not the case.  Salaries can be matched .8 to 1 or 1 to 1.25 (+100k) in most cases.  NBA teams don't see value like you and I see value.  They slot players in a S/A/B/C/D/E format (or similar data points).  In a theoretical sense, 2 E's = a D and so on but you don't trade 8 D's to get an A even if the math works out.  On top of that, Most contending teams set their team's ideal team salary as (2 S (max), 1 A, 1 B and a combination of C's and D's to round it out.).  Where trades can be pushed more or less in your favor is if the player ability is greater than his Contract.  They use a matrix of value similar to what I'm showing below.

 

Using the above chart, Gobert is an A ability player but an S level salary.  Technically, he is a poor value. Rarely is an A or S level player a good value, typically only if they're on their rookie contract or were acquired after a buy out.  NBA teams understand this and accept it.

 

Clint is a B level player on a B level contract.  He is Neutral value (see the chart).  So although Gobert technically has more ability he charts lower in value, he can also keep you from getting another good, great or superior player.  Hunter is a C/B level player on a D/C level contract.  If he were locked in, Hunter would be a good value, but he's not locked in and will command more later so he's not as good a value as he seems.  Technically, a deal for Clint and Hunter is a neutral and good level contract + a good value draft pick for a poor level value player (even though is superior in ability).  In this scenario of value, Utah gets back neutral + good +good for poor value. 

 

Lets explore a few others.  This past season, Huerter was a good value as he was a C level player but on a D/E level contract. Although he had flaws, he was such a small bit of the salary cap his value was good.  However, his salary goes up considerably next year to the B level. His C level performance will drop this from a Great to Excellent value down to a poor value. Huerter will have to step it up.

By contrast, Bogi was a B level player when healthy but had times of lower performance. If Huerter was a mid C, Bogi was a high C to low B.  But a salary of B to A level pushes him to a neutral to poor value.  My contrast of Bogi and Huerter will probably take a turn next year, as since Huerter got paid, more is going to be asked of him to live up to that contract. The "value" comparison will change.

 

Lets contrast Trae here.

I see Trae as A level ability (S Offense, D defense (at best)).  Last year when only making $8 million, he was on a D/C level salary.  This is unicorn level output. Only a few people a year have this kind of disparity in their ability vs salary and most are on rookie contracts. This puts him in good to great value and is why we could afford to pay someone. Instead of 2 S level ability players we had a bunch of B/A's. Its also why stepping up in the playoffs is a roulette table. B level players are not on all the time.

 

Trading is not as simple as "he's great, you have to give up more to get him" and I've struggled to explain this to people on the regular. There are numerous factors, the 2 most important of which to teams are chemistry and the salary cap. As currently constructed, the Jazz are 4 players short for next season and are already slighting in to the LT.  Utah doesn't want to take back a max contract for Gobert but instead wants a few contracts to spread out their salary to minimize or eliminate their LT impact. If Utah believes they can package 16 and their pick to move up and they believe that player and the wing Atlanta includes will be upgrades to what they have, they'll accept the downgrade from Gobert to Clint.  

The problem that Utah is going to face is the impact drop off of Gobert to any shlub center they can sign is so great, they have to get back a center with a reasonable drop off in return. That is a very limited set of centers in the league. It has to be a top 15 center or the gap would be too large to make up as currently constructed and top 15 centers are rarely available to trade. Clint is one of the few available players who would meet that criteria and be better than neutral value.

 

No criticizing the lecture, you flicked the tiger. If you were here longer, you'd know it was a bad idea.

[Removed unnecessary personal shot]

You typed a lot of explaining how contracts work but failed to acknowledge any bit of the precedent set of trading for star players. You also left out many factors like who are you dealing with (in this case Danny Ainge and group). Yes Gobert value may be lowered because of his contract but it will not be low to the point you can just salary match for a trade. That does not give Utah any sense of direction (it does not help them in title contention and it also does not help them rebuild). And even you just said they will need to add pick 16 . Stars packages are not salary matches until they have absolutely fallen off a cliff.

You aren't a tiger. Youre just another fish in the sea. Now go on and tell us about some rumors that literally any fan that can read between the lines can make up. I bet like all of them they wont ever come to fruition. Enjoy your day and enjoy your chart

2 hours ago, thecampster said:

I just can't with Hollinger.  For "salary match" yes you'd need those players.  Unless of course the deal is set in principal today but consummated after the dead period in July.  Right now Clint + Bogi + pick works for salary matching.  After July 1 so does Clint and Huerter.  There is no universe where they are including picks on top of Jalen Johnson.  Half the teams in the league came sniffing around on Johnson during summer league last year asking for him to be included in deals.....Just such lazy writing.

Salary matching alone will not get you the best interior defender in the league lol. You will absolutely have to attached picks or players. Thats the cost of getting top 35 players in the league lol (even if his contract is enormous). JJ wont be included but they would definitely have to give a pick or 2

57 minutes ago, shakes said:

would love to hear what/who you or Chris thinks we would be able to trade to move up to top 4 or 5 pick  in this draft.

 

 

This should be amusing.

 

 

 

 

I think the idea is that the kings are in win now mode and that is widely known. Think the deal would look like JC/16/hornets first for harrison barnes and 4. No clue though just speculating here

Chris saying he wouldn't rule out hawks trading up to nab someone is music to my ears. Though for next season we may be a 6-8 seed getting someone like Jaden Ivey would be great for the long term future of the team. We never got our second creator/playmaker via the draft and this would finally be our chance to do so.

21 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Not for this personnel grouping. 

The personnel is going to change lol

3 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I see Nate as the HC right now. I don't see a better option right now. 

so many better options out there LMAOOO. Kenny atkinson is sitting on a championship winning staff. Darvin Ham sitting on a championship winning staff. Charles Lee. Nate is literally a bottom 10 coach in the nba. Any of these former hawks assistants would coach circles around him

Just now, thecampster said:

I didn't make the decision, I just reported it  

Yeah i understand. Not trying to shoot the messenger here just stating my opinion on this. I suspect major change (heck schlenk said it on an interiview this morning) just dumb. Won't matter as long as nate is the coach

On 4/27/2022 at 7:36 AM, thecampster said:

This will probably be my last post as "an insider". Do not shoot the elected messenger. So a huge disclaimer before this gets posted.  A few weeks before the play in, I lost 2 of my 3 sources. The 3^rd guy has been spot on the last year or so with info but its hard for me to say “stuff I’ve heard” when its only coming from 1 guy.

I had a talk with the both of the other 2 before their tenures where they were came to a final close (nothing bad, moving out and up in the world), and they downloaded the chatter they’d heard as a final goodbye. A short time after that, Sothron, Supes and I revived our rumor chat and many of the things I was told they had been hearing. Some of it was shared on the board.  What follows is greater than speculation, not yet rumor, some hotter than other. Lastly, a decision was made not to discuss some of it openly as the playoffs has changed more players’ futures than Gatorade. What follows is the summation of conversations held early in April. I'll talk less about incoming players. Expect the other 2 guys to chime in later with their targeted players getting buzz.

 

The trade deadline – ownership and other stakeholders were very unhappy about the dealing around the trade deadline. They wanted consolidation trades and couldn’t swing anything. There was a feeling around the league the Hawks were dangerous and no one wanted to help. But, there was also a feeling that everything the Hawks wanted to do was a swindle. Our players were valued greater as a whole than as individuals. Ownership is eager to shake things up. Specifically, to get bigger around Trae.

 

Clint – Management likes Clint but they do not see him as defensively dominant enough to put around Trae.  They see him as good and serviceable but a better fit on a team bigger at the 2/3/4. They feel he is not getting the help he needs. We either move Clint for a dominant center or will upgrade all 3 positions between him and Trae for size.

 

Collins – Management loves John the person. Management also thinks John is a better fit next to a dominant center or elsewhere. John is not strong enough, big enough and is hurt too much to put next to Trae and Clint. They know his athleticism will fade.

 

Bogi – Management is very frustrated with his injury situation. Mad at their medical staff for clearing him. Bogi’s knee issues are suspected to be degenerative and will need to be managed. Bogi’s defense is opportunistic but a net negative in its own right. He is a terrible fit next to Trae. Huerter is not the long term answer and will eventually be on the bench but his defensive fit next to Trae was a necessity. If Bogi plays hard defense 1 night, his knee makes him useless the next….This is why Huerter is starting and why Bogi is the number 1 person on the trading block.

 

Gallo – The team loves everything Gallo brings. They do not love it $21 million worth. Gallo is a financial decision they tried to make at the trade deadline and got mediocre interest at best. A decision was made to waive or trade him in the coming offseason and the team isn’t happy about it. They love him but he just isn’t worth $20 million + a year at this stage of his career.

 

Cooper – Cooper openly complained about his role and opportunities. He may not be back and could be packaged.

 

Wright – The Hawks love everything about him. For a player the team thought they made a mistake on 10 games in, he is now solidly a Hawk. They can’t overpay him and he may take the money elsewhere (he’s played himself onto a number of rosters now), but the Hawks want to bring him back.

 

TLC – If the price is right.

 

Hunter – Hunter complained openly about touches and the end of the season was all about him proving he could hold on to the ball and be effective. The jury is out. He improved but is not efficient. The offseason will be big for Hunter and he could be included in a trade deal to get a true star 2 to put next to Trae.

 

The team wants 3 things in the offseason.  1) To get bigger, more physical. This starts at both Center and PF. The Hawks will be shopping.  2) The team wants a solid #2 scorer/ball handler. 3) To utilize their draft capital and multiple assets to consolidate bringing in 2 stars. Either 2 elite bigs or 1 elite big and 1 elite 2.

 

The team is very interested in trading out of this year’s draft and using their pick to upgrade. This entire offseason is about getting players who will help them punish teams that double/trap Trae.

 

Nate isn’t going anywhere this season. He doesn’t like his team’s personal identity and has worked with management to address it this offseason.  Expect moves. Everyone is on board.

 

If you see the Hawks make a move for either Ayton, Gobert (or even A.Davis), then that is just the first domino to fall. Clint, John, Dre, Bogi, Gallo, Cooper could all have a new address next season and we could easily not have a draft pick.  5 out, 3 in is very likely.

a lot of this is expected. that being said the last thing you said is very worrisome. 

Nate is a terrible coach and catering our roster to stuff he wants when he should absolutely be on the hot seat is the dumbest thing we could do. We don't need more nate guys we need more good players that the next coach will be able to use. Nate mcmillian stinks at his job and I know you saw that Chris kirschner article suggesting that people in the building know he isn't good at his job. He has got to go and they need to bring in a coach like Kenny atkinson and build a roster he wants to work with.

Nate mcmillian has DONE NOTHING in his ENTIRE CAREER to warrant asking for players. This is why we will never win a chip anytime soon. We make stupid decisions like hiring nate mcmillian and then we will shape our roster for this bad coach. When we inevitably lose in the first round next year they will fire nate and now have a roster (perhaps its good perhaps its not) but it was catered to the previous coach.

4 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I disagree. Last year was a marked by adjustments that got us to being a winning team to being in the ECF. 

Also, he turns us into a top 3 offense. I also liked what he did in Indiana and Seattle.

You liked him getting into the playoffs and bounced first round year after year???

Nate doesn't do anything with the offense, thats chris jent's job lol. Nate probably has an over arching philosophy to it but thats it. His philosophy is also what got us into the play in instead of where we should be. mf had us shooting nothing but mid range shots on our way to a 4-9 start to the season. Literally everything that worked last year he abandoned and then went back to late in the year.

he is trash and if it wasn't for a shitty knicks team and doc rivers he would have never gotten the job from schlenk. Heck he didn't even want the job to begin with. He is a perennial loser and always will be. We will be even lucky to get out the second round with that guy again. Spo is coaching circles on this loser right now

22 hours ago, NBASupes said:

I am pretty high on Nate, while I am down on a number of things this season, I do believe he's very adapt and good at adjustments but when his personnel has topped out. He looks like a shell of a HC. Sad to be honest. 

He has quite literally never been good at adjustments in his career lol. Just look at the shit he has done this series starting gallo and jc which time after time hasn't worked. That dude is as bad as it gets as a coach. 15+ years coaching and he made it out the first round once. He stinks and schlenk was handcuffed into resigning him

16 minutes ago, Diesel said:

Let me explain my point.

LUKA is not the star for Atlanta... Trae is...

1.  There's the Historic Nature of Trae's accomplishments.

Trae has a lot of historic accomplishments already in his 4th year.  He walks the walk...   I won't go through them all but he's been mentioned in circles with Jordan, Lebron, and Oscar Robertson.. and he has also been mentioned in circles all by himself... things that no other player has done.   

2.  There's the fact that you can't say that he's like any other player...

He's been called a clone of Nash...  Nash was not the scorer that Trae is.  He's been called a clone of AI.. Ai was not the passer that Trae is... Trae is a freakin UNICORN.

3.  Atlanta needs a Personality.....

Something that Luka can't provide.   Trae is the personality that we need.  After Joe Cool and Matty Ice.. guys who played very well but never really sparked the fans interest...  Trae is the guy that our city has been waiting on since Dominique.   He's loud.  He's confident.  He talks his shit.. and he backs it up...  He's the littlest guy in the game that garners the most respect.  That represent our city.   All of the people who cry that we don't have Luka... do you see the Diva that Luka is?  Luka has already gotten one coach fired and another star player traded.   Luka would have gone back to Europe or forced us to trade him by now...  TRAE IS ATLANTA...

 

 

I always think this take is also stupid. "Atlanta needs personality'

No they just need someone to wrap their arms around who will win games. You think Quavo and all those guys would not wrap their arms around Luka who would be putting up as crazy stat lines??

The whole personality notion is so stupid whenever someone says it. This is a basketball city and the hawks are still trash in attendance because they don't put out a winner.

This is an insane thread. We were literally two wins away from a finals appearance. Trae young is not the problem by any means. He needs to give effort and improve his defense but that is an issue for quite literally all but 3-4 players on the team.

The personnel around him and the coach they hired are terrible right now. 

19 hours ago, JayBirdHawk said:

Can you provide the specific tweet?

here you go sir.

Just now, Mikey said:

here you go sir.

another one here too. 

2 hours ago, AHF said:

I don't know.  If Travis preferred Luka to Trae + pick then I think he would have just kept him.  Luke would have had to really lay it on thick to get me to pass on him if he is my guy.  We can all remember Steve Francis but the number of players who force their way out as rookies is very, very small.

yeah but Luka could have just stayed overseas. He didn't have to make the jump to the nba. Im just sharing what Rayford Young has said on twitter a couple of times. Whether you guys wanna believe it or not its up to you

2 hours ago, NBASupes said:

Because it's not true. He wanted to come to Atlanta. Sacramento is where he wasn't the most fond of. 

No offense at all, but I will take Trae Young dad's word more than yours. 

Maybe I am giving travis the benefit of the doubt but he would have taken the best player had he want to be here. Playing in Dallas with Dirk and taking that baton from him makes a ton of sense for who Luka is and his background