falc82

With Hibbert pulling out of the draft this clears up a few things for the Hawks. First, it will be very tough to get an above average center in this draft, and second and more important, it will be impossible for Conley to slip to #11. I propose three solutions to what we should do in the draft given this latest news. Option A) Draft Conley at #3 and Noah at #11. Conley fills the PG spot that we desperately need to fill, and I really believe he is the better POINT GUARD option over Law by a wide margin. We really don't need a scoring PG on this team. Most of the posters yelling for Law over Conley are young enough to be excited by Jason Terry, but too young to appreciate a PG like Mookie Blaylock. We need a Blaylock type of PG and I think Conley is close to that type of player. Noah at #11 simply gives us an athletic big to team with ZaZa and Shelden. Option B) Trade the #3 pick for Rondo and the #5 and take Noah at #11. Also take Brandan Wright at #5. If Boston is as obsessed over Yi as rumored then they may be willing to give up Rondo in this trade given that West has shown to be a very good player at the same position. We would have to convince them we were interested in taking Yi at the #3 spot ourselves. I believe the Grizzlies would then take Conley at #4 leaving the best player available as Brandan Wright. Wright has superstar potential and adds a Amare/Jefferson type player at the 4. Noah at #11 would complete our team. Rondo/Speedy JJ/Salim Marvin/Chillz Smoove/Wright ZaZa/Shelden That seems very solid with a lot of potential. A lot of things would have to fall right for this to happen, but I believe it is feasible. Option 3) Trade the #3 straight up for Aldridge. I don't think the Blazers would do this and that they are more interested in moving Randolph. I would not be interested in acquiring Zach Randolph. They would only do this if they deemed Aldridge expendable following the drafting of Oden, and if they wished to keep Oden paired with Conley. I believe this to be the least likely scenario. The point of this post is to illustrate that we have plenty of options if we are willing to be creative with our capital. These options do not require us to give up major pieces like Josh Smith or Marvin, and I think we should hold onto them if at all possible. Of all the options I like B the best. Thoughts?

Take Hibbert first and then Conley? Or the other way around? Or trade the pick? We have options now that we have 2 lottery picks and that is the most important thing. I think that the best option is to try our hardest to trade into the #1 spot. I doubt the Blazers are looking to trade out, but they could use a SF and with Randolph and Aldridge already on board they could consider trading the pick to us. Some package along the lines of Marvin, #3, and #11 (or future first with protection). I'm not sure if they'd jump on this trade, but it will take a lot to pry away the number one overall pick in this draft.

Quote: not being racist here but i think a reason some attendance may be down is because we try to make the game experience too hip hop. like the drummers and the rappers performing.all the break dancers and stuff seems a little immature for an nba basketball game dont you think? im alright with the dance team and stuff but theres a lot of wealthy white people in atlanta and they want to see some basketball. its bad enough all of basketball is hiphop but dont make it worse. i know winning would help but its kind of embarassing as a fan. I can see some potential raciest remarks such as referring to hip hop as embarrassing and immature. I don't think he was referring to African Americans as embarrassing and immature which would be directly raciest, but I suppose a link can be made between the race and the music genre. There's little doubt in my mind that the atmosphere intended for the Hawks games and the perceived danger of Atlanta at night probably does isolate some of the white crowd that would be border line season ticket purchasers. Is this the biggest reason for decreased crowds? Not by any means, but the fact of the matter is this probably does contribute somewhat to lower attendance in some sectors of the state, raciest or not. Game atmosphere is a contributer to attendance outcome.

I dont find this to be a raciest in the least. It is simply his reasoning as to why our attendance is bad despite Atlanta seemingly being a perfect place for basketball to really take off. I believe that reducing the hip hop theme and cleaning up the surrounding area of the arena would help to increase attendance among the white community. I know some buy into the hip hop theme while others do not, but it does seem to isolate some of the fan base from what I've observed. But really the real issue here is an inept ownership group that is detached from the fan base's desires for the most part, a losing atmosphere that has been here for the better part of a decade, no championship experience to draw back on, bad personal decisions, and a GM/Coach combo that lack PR skills and..probably the skills required to do their job at an above average clip. While the first reasons (hip hop and crime) may lead to semi isolation of the white crowd, it is much more the latter reasons that lead the Hawks to be the laughing stock of the NBA in attendance. I think Atlanta is just waiting for a great Hawk's team to embrace. But a coaching, GM, and Ownership group would go a long way to fixing all of this. Something similar to the Falcons being rejuvenated by the arrival of Blank, MCkay, and Vick. I think we have our version of Vick in Smoove and JJ, we just need an ownership and GM change that instills confidence in the fan base...one that says they give a damn and care about winning.

Quote: Horford's a baller. Doubtful that BK was watching him unless by mistake. Probably Green. We need another BU caliber Pg. It was the UCLA-FL game so he was probably scouting Noah and Collison. I've been saying all along that Collison is the best PG in the NCAA (when defense is considered as well as setting up his teammates and playing uptempo) He is the best fit PG for the Hawks, with Conley possibly a close 2nd.

Quote: Im just pissed cause I expected alot more from the hawks fans. And after working so hard on trying to get this petition up and informing the realgm hawks forum, messaging basically everyone from the Hawks official myspace, then you guys. Im tired as hell and expected everyone to support me fully. Thats why im so angry right now I can see the dedication to the Hawks through all your hard work, but you do have to understand that the majority of people here would prefer knowing the full content of what it is they are signing. Yelling at a simple request such as this is a bit unreasonable. To the letter: Some basic typo errors; I know you said that you haven't ran it through spell check, but simple mistakes such as the wrong use of ''our'' and ''their'' may not come up as a spelling error on MS Word. Also, the JJ trade consisted of 2 draft picks and Diaw instead of 3 draft picks like you mentioned. Solomon Jones was a solid pick in the 2nd round, he has great potential to develop into a Camby type of center for us. He brings everything to the center position that ZaZa lacks (defensive intensity, rebounding) Also the correct spelling is Solomon. Few random grammatical errors also. Just a few suggestions, hope it helps.

PAC10 has some quality teams. I have UCLA winning it all in my mock..we'll see if that can save it for me. Gabe Pruitt is really impressing me with his play, he is much faster than I had originally thought he was. I don't know if he comes out this year, but if they upset UNC and he performs well in this game and the next then I could see him declaring. If he does he might be a mid to late 1st..hard to tell until we see the depth at the PG position this year. Just another guy to add to the list. Also Lawson is lightning fast. Collison is proving my #1 ranking right with his play so far, and Conley is doing well for himself as well.

Sosa stepped up huge in the game, but disappeared in the clutch. Law did very well hitting his free throws with the game on the line. Conley became a man in OT putting his team on his back. But was there a more clutch performance today than Ron Lewis of Ohio State? Wow.

Quote: Quote: I like Augustin as that type of guy. I just don't see Law as much more than a Ben Gordon with slightly better vision. Definitely not a bad thing, but I just don't think thats the type of PG the Hawks need. And Law is not a Chris Paul type. Completely different body sizes, game speeds, and passing ability. I seriously doubt Law ever average over 7 APG and Chris Paul has done much more than that in only his first 2 years in the league. Law is closer to Paul than he is a Salim because HE PASSES THE BALL. I don't know where this misconception that Law is just a shooter came from, but he's a guy who sets up his teammates. It's part of the reason why his teammate led the nation in 3 point percentage. It sure seems that some posters never read the post they quote. I never once compared Law to Salim, but I did compare him to Jason Terry and a better passing Ben Gordon. I never called him a ball hog, but I did say he was not that pass first PG that we need..that pure point that will bring together the pieces we currently have. Also to Diesel, I can see where it would sound like I was saying Law may never average MUCH over 7 apg. But what I was saying was that Law would never come CLOSE to averaging 7 apg since you were comparing him to a Chris Paul type..or closer to Chris Paul anyways. Paul averaged 7.8 apg his rookie season at a younger age than Law currently is; I was simply saying Law will never approach this type of production from a passing standpoint. Of course I would be happy with 7apg, but I don't see Law as that type of player. I'm not discrediting Law by any means, because I think he is a fantastic player. However, he is not the type of PG that the Hawks currently need, and I don't think the he is the best PG in the NCAA right now, only the oldest and most seasoned. Best pure PG in my opinion is also one of the best defensive PGs: Darren Collison.

I like Augustin as that type of guy. I just don't see Law as much more than a Ben Gordon with slightly better vision. Definitely not a bad thing, but I just don't think thats the type of PG the Hawks need. And Law is not a Chris Paul type. Completely different body sizes, game speeds, and passing ability. I seriously doubt Law ever average over 7 APG and Chris Paul has done much more than that in only his first 2 years in the league.

Oden is a defensive game changer, he and Josh Smith next to each other would be scary for other teams. Oden's offensive game is still coming around and isn't here yet, but you can see the potential for it. I think Conley, especially in OT without Oden in there, is really helping his draft stock. I have him as my #2 PG right now and he is showing why.

Who is Hibbard or do you mean Hibbert? Not trying to sound like an ass, I just don't know if there is a Hibbard out there that I may not know about.

But is Law the type of PG we need? I'd prefer to see a point in here that is more of a Steve Nash/Jason Kidd type more so than a Jason Terry type. Law just seems more combo guard than point guard. Very clutch though.

Quote: what kind of logic is that? not getting paul/deron/felton is a sunk cost and how well they do has NOTHING to do with marvin's potential or lack thereof marvin has potential, thus that's a positive sure, deron woulda been a better pick AT THIS POINT, but that doesn't take away from how good marvin may or may not be Very intelligent post. Not getting those players is most certainly a sunk cost. They would be better picks than Marvin, but you are 100% right in saying that it has nothing to do with Marvin as a player. He can still realize his potential. Him being picked #2 overall ahead of better players does not take away from his ability and instantly cause him to be nothing more than NBDL caliber. He has shown slow but steady improvement, and I think next year he will prove to be an integral part of this team along with JJ/Smoove.

Yeah, it's hard to tell at this point which PGs are coming out. Other than Law, all of the PGs we are discussing could very well be the class of 2008 with the addition of Rose and Mayo. If that were the case then that'd be a much deeper PG class than we've ever seen, even more so than Marvin's class. I think if UCLA has a deep run then Collison may come out, and that Augustin could come out depending on Durant and how deep they go in the tournament, same with Conley in terms of what Oden/Ohio State does. Law is a given since he is a senior, but I can't see Lawson or JC coming out at this point, but we'll see.

Haters coming after a loss? Why don't you go to the draft forum and read the exact same thoughts I posted today that I posted a few days ago..JC is simply overrated by those affiliated with Georgia Tech. Now thats not to say he is a bad prospect by any means, but he isn't head and shoulders (other than a literal sense) above those other PGs I mentioned. It's about more than just assist to. It has to do with setting up teammates with easy buckets, controlling the tempo of the game, and defending. If you had read my post you would realize I put him ahead of Lawson, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone outside the south who thinks JC is better right now than Conley and that has more to do than just having Oden as a teammate. Regardless, I'm just not impressed enough from what I've seen of JC so far to put him ahead of all the other points that we should be considering. Once again, that doesn't mean he is bad or lacks potential because thats not the case. The best of the bunch in terms of what the Hawks need is Collison though. Tough defender with excellent vision and an improving shot.

Quote: I still want Crittenton, he's 6'5 and a legit point, a great playmaker, and can really get to the basket and score. Plus, he's an above average defender and he's only a freshman. Javaris would be my #1 choice if I had the chance to get him. I don't think the *only a freshmen* notation is really significant. I say this because the vast majority of PGs we should consider here are currently freshmen and have been playing very well also. I've already stated in another post my feelings on JC, I just think he is overhyped a bit due to being a local guy. He's a good player, but not much better than Collison, Conley, Law, Augustin, and Lawson. All are close or better than JC, and I would probably take all but Lawson over him at this point. JC can distribute the ball with fancy passes, but I dont know if I like his ability to set up his teammates and make the game easier compared to the other PGs I mentioned.

Ive been really disappointed with Thabeet recently, but have been equally impressed by Hibbert. I feel that for the Hawks, we need a legit center with defensive and rebounding toughness, but also most have some post moves to compliment Smoove. The Center rankings for the Hawks go like this in my opinion. 1.Greg Oden - Self explanatory, but probably not available. 2.Roy Hibbert - I think he and Oden are the best two defensive centers in the NCAA. His offensive game is coming around, and I think he'll be a better pro than college player due to the system ran at Georgetown. He seems to have a great attitude and seemed really mature in all the press coverage I've seen him in. 3.Hawes - Interesting fit for the Hawks, we would more than welcome his post moves, but I'm not sure what he brings defensively at this point. Could be a better ZaZa which wouldn't be all that bad. 4.Brook Lopez - Plays with his twin currently and seems to be an up and coming player. Need to see more of him. 5.Thabeet - His size and shot blocking ability make you drool, but the potential may never be realized because of lackluster work ethic and sub par offensive and rebounding ability thus far. PGs I really like that could be availabe with the Indy pick should we get it are as follows. I'd hope to get a pure PG for the Hawks to compliment our young players, take pressure off Joe, and to allow us to run a more up tempo style game. 1.Darren Collison - I think he is the best pure PG in the NCAA and has above average defensive ability to put him over the edge. 2.Mike Conley Jr. - Very underrated as he is in the shadows of Oden. Takes care of the ball and has excellent pure passing ability. 3.Acie Law - Very cluth player, but I see him as more of a combo guard than a pure PG. I think a pure PG is what the Hawks need at this point. 4.D.J. Augustin - Like Conley he is in the shadows of Durant, but has proven to be a dominant player in his own right. Is another great pure point, but has a very good offensive game to match. 5.Javaris Crittenton - I have him lower than most and don't buy into the home town hype. He is a very good player with potential who has started to shine lately, but the fact remains that he doesn't have the pure point potential that others have. 6.Tywon Lawson - An excellent pure PG who takes care of the ball. I really like Lawson, but wonder if his size is an issue. Chris Paul proved that a 5'11 PG can excel in the NBA but I'd have to see more of Twyon before I can tell his game will translate to the Pros as easily as Chris Paul's did. All of this is subject to change as I watch all these players closely in the NCAA tournament. But I think if the majority were to declare then we could get some real value at the Indy pick should we get it.

If we were to land the #2 pick instead of the #1 pick, then which team if any would we need to win the #1 pick and allow us to pick Greg Oden? I'm thinking Kevin Durant goes #1 if Philly, Bobcats, or the Bucks win the lottery. Can't be sure, but what does everyone else think?

Relax. We weren't going to lose out for the season. Besides, Philly won tonight, the Bucks won tonight, the Bobcats currently have a 2 point lead over the Suns with about 8+ mins left in the 4th. The Celtics and Grizzlies lost but it's going to take a big turn around by those two teams for us to 'pass' them. So we had a chance to move to the #3 spot by ourselves, but this win didn't really hurt us. Add to that Indiana is continuing their free fall setting us up with a very good pick from them. This win by us really doesn't hurt all too much.

Not sure if they will come out, but Mike Conley Jr. and Tywon Lawson are right up there with the others in regards to young talented PGs with a future in the NBA. In fact, Mike Conley might be the best pure freshmen PG in the nation.

If we were to luck out and get Oden, would there be anyone better to bring in and mentor this kid than Deke?

Boston just beat the T-wolves in doubt OT for what its worth. Make it 4 straight wins for the C's who have been pretty decent since Pierce came back for them.

We currently have the 4th worst record in the NBA and are only a 1/2 game ahead of Philly who is the 3rd worst team. If we somehow get the 3rd pick what do we do with it and who do we take assuming both Oden and Durant were taken 1 and 2. A trade down to somewhere close to 6 makes the most since, and we can then take one of the many centers, but as BK proved in the last draft with Shelden...he will reach for a player instead of trading down so this option is off the board. So do we take the player everyone projects to be at #3 in 6-10 Brandan Wright. Or do we reach on a center in either 7-3 Hasheem Thabeet or 6'11 Spencer Hawes, 6-11 Joakim Noah, or go the international route with 7-0 Yi Jianlian? I would hope personally for Hasheem Thabeet at #3.

I mentioned Darren Collison the other day in a post and he goes off against Arizona to the tune of 17 points, 15 assist, and only 2 turnovers. He is a sophmore at UCLA and was an understudy of Farmer last year which included their run in the NCAA tournament. His early projection is listed as Kevin Johnson, and he is known as a great distrubter and a lock down defender. He is averaging 13.3 PPG 6 APG 2.2 SPG, shooting .528% FG, .780% FT, and .506% 3 pointers, and a very healthy 2.01 Assit/Turnover ratio. He's projected as coming out for the 2008 draft and being picked around 8th at this point, but with his strong play of late I can see him leaving this year and being available around the Indy pick. I really think this is the PG we should target in the draft and as the PG of the future.