falc82

Quote: I go away for a little bit and come back to the board and see all these negative posts popping up again. Looks like I'll be living it alone for a while longer. I'm not up for reading such pessimism when the Hawks are playing decent ball without a fully healthy roster. I'm not being negative towards the Hawks, because they played very well for the majority of the game considering the circumstances. However, Freije is a liability while on the court and played 21 mins while a healthy Jones played 4 mins and contributed more in those 4 mins than Freije did in his 21 mins. Something negative should be said about that.

I'll blame both, fair enough?

Freije should not play anywhere close to 15 mins in a game, even if Josh Smith is hurt and Shelden is in foul trouble you still have Solomon Jones who ended up playing 5 mins in the entire game yet contributing more than Freije. Horrible substitutions yet again by our coach.

My top 10 would have to be 1. Kobe 2. Lebron 3. Duncan 4. Wade 5. AI 6. Dirk 7. Nash 8. McGrady (much higher when not hurt obviously) 9. Gilbert Arenas 10.Brand (or KG here) 11. Shaq (only because I can't leave him out of the conversation of best NBA players)

Let me fix this a bit, Rondo can't be traded until August 4th, but we could wait till then or substitute Telfair in there instead. Also I read on realgm that Indiana isn't interested in Bonzi anymore yet still remain interested in AL. Switch in Telfair for Rondo, and include the Bucks and GS (Magloire and a 1st from them, big contract from GS, and one of their young players.) And probably one more player from Boston and Philly and that equals 16. But after thinking all that out..I don't see a 16 player trade ever happening.

Quote: It seems that the teams involved are: Indy: Jeff Foster ATL: Al Harrington SAC: Bonzi Wells NY: Steve Francis Philly: AI, Webber Boston: Telfair/Rondo But I think there may be another thing. What is the biggest story of this offseason? I personally think it is LeBron taking forever to sign his new contract. You may be right about most of the players involved but I really don't think Lebron is being traded. If he signed the contract then the Cavs won't trade him. It would honestly cause riots. Besides I think the delay was based on him and his agent tweaking a 3 year counter offer rather than him wanting to leave. I do think this would be our best option to be involved in such a huge deal because trading AL could net us Rondo or Telfair in return. Both seem to be doing really well in Summer league and both duplicate each other too much. Potential problems would be that Philly would want a PG if they are giving up Iversion and they wont want Francis in return since they are seeking youth. Boston probably would rather keep Rondo than Telfair, with BK wanting Rondo over Telfair. Still if we could get one of the Boston combo then that would be ideal if Ellis isn't an option. Perhaps: NYK: gets Harrington and Boston 1st (lotto protected) Philly: gets Francis and Frye Boston: gets Iverson Atl: gets Rondo and Foster Ind: gets Bonzi Wells Sac: gets Taylor (expiring contract) and Ind 1st (lotto protected) I dont know if that is enough for Iverson from Boston or if it works under the cap, but that would be interesting for sure. If I had to guess it would come close to working under the cap since every team receives some player that should have a high contract. Including the picks that only adds up to 10 players, perhaps GS gets involved somehow.

Quote: Take this for what its worth. On draft night SAS said the Bobcats owner is rumor to be the Donald Steerling of the East. I may be wrong, but I thought that the Bobcats didn't have the same cap space as every other team. I thought that from the first year they were brought in that they had a much lower cap rate that would steadily rise to everyone else's cap space. Not sure if thats accurate or when they would have the same cap as everyone else but that would explain why they haven't spent as much.

Is not because we drafted Shelden, because the Hawks seriously needed interior defense. The reason is not because Shelden wont succeed in the NBA, because the general feeling is that he was the 'safe' pick, and one who will go in and be solid from day 1, but never have superstar potential type. The reason is because he could have been had much lower, and BK should have gotten more out of this pick than Shelden. The two teams after us in Minny and Portland would not have taken Shelden. Minny was going guard, and Portland had already drafted and then traded for Aldridge as their PF. Its been said that the Rocket's trade was legit, but that the Rockets pulled out because they wanted Battier more. But it was obvious how bad Portland wanted Aldridge and Roy. It was made even more obvious how badly they desired to have Roy on their team when the T-wolves unexpectedly took Roy at #6 and forced the hand of the Blazers to have to pick Foye at #7 and then trade. This is what the Hawks should have done..maximize the return on the #5 pick. If Shelden was the target then that is fine, that is not what we should be upset about..we should be dissapointed or perhaps angry that we did not maximize the value of our #5 pick. Why not draft Roy at 5 and then force the hand of Portland for say the #7 (Shelden) and #30 pick in the draft, or perhaps the #7 and one of their young PGs since they now have Jack, Blake, and Sergio. I am perplexed how BK can take Shelden at #5 when he could easily have traded down and taken him and gained valuable assets in the process. It's not as if Portland was an unwilling trade partner as was shown by their numerous trades on the day, and Portland was projected to have a strong desire to add Roy with the #7 pick before the draft even unfolded. For BK to miss this simple opportunity to add talent to a team that still has holes and to instead sit by and reach for a player that could have been had lower is rediculous. The Bulls did it right with getting Thomas, T-wolves did it right in getting Foye, and the Hawks were unable to follow this example in maximizing their value of the pick while still getting the same player that they wanted all along. Don't be upset that we have Shelden, be upset that we didn't maximize the value on our #5 pick in this draft.

http://draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1369 Reported trade is very close. Main pieces are Marion for Lewis and an exchange of draft picks. This indicates that the Hawks are not going to trade down with the Sonics, and if trading down is still their goal then primary targets are Houston and Golden State.

Quote: #1 picks - 7 players made the All-NBA team #2 picks - 2 players #3 picks - 3 players #4 picks - 3 players #5 picks - 3 players (Wade, KG, Ray Allen) #6 - #8 None #9 picks - 4 players #10 to 15 - 4 players #16 to 30 - 3 players Second Round only 2 players Undrafted only 1 player (Ben Wallace) Quote: Nothing is guaranteed, it is all probabilities - but the highest yield of stars is at the #1 slot because some years there is a Shaq or obvious choice. Not this year. After that the probability is about even for 2-5. Then it drops off quickly. It looks like it drops off for only picks 6-8 then picks right back up for pick #9. Given that, this doesnt seem like a good indicator to go by. In such a deep draft there is going to be several gems scatterd around the 1st time. Talent evalutation is just as important as where you pick. Personally I find it odd that we decide to workout PGs in the 7-12 range but not Shelden. I'm still expecting a trade down of sorts, but I'm not sure it will be for Shelden like the article says. Warriors are a good guess and the Sonics remain a possibility. I'm also thinking that the Rockets could be a potential trading partner. They have a few holes on a team with talent and would probably love to add a player such as Thomas, Roy or Gay if one of them dropped to #5. I wouldn't do it for Stromile/#8 or Head/#8 though, possibly the rights to the #8 pick and a top 3 protected 1st next year. The rockets in my opinion dont have as many enticing pieces as the Warriors and Sonics. Also, lets not rule out the Hornets who have supposedly had talks with the T-wolves of a trade for the #6 and offering their #12 and #15. I think #12 and #15 is too low to grab the PG we want based on the workouts but it could still be high enough for Rondo/Foye. And it is could be possible still that BK has us all fooled and wish to add Saer and Farmar/Rondo/Foye with the #12 and #15. At this point all we can do is speculate.

And as I type all of this and read various draft sites at the same time, I am compelled to respond to myself for a 2nd straight time. Draft Express: http://draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1358 Great article speaking of potential trades, Jordan's effect on the Bobcat's selection, and mention of the Shelden promise and potential Hawks trade down. In summary it basically says that none of their sources put much stock into the Shelden rumor, and that the Hawks are likely to trade down in order to select him. So..Hawks interest in Shelden legit....promise not. This leads to more speculation and questions. Now that it is quite possible we are trading down to select Shelden and NOT selecting him at #5 in order to trade down who would our potential trading partners be and who/what could we expect to get in return?

All in all, I just don't believe BK would have made any sort of promise unless there was some other motive involved. Perhaps this is why a promise was given out, and this coupled with the workouts of players in the range of 7-12 instead of 1-6 seems to indicate even more strongly that a trade with the Sonics is in the mix. Would there be any other reasoning for BK to go completely against his personality and issue a promise?

at #5 for what its worth. Quote: 3. Shelden Williams 6-9 258 PF/C Duke Sr. -- Williams brings the versatility to defend centers as well as power forwards. His offensive game is a bit mechanical, but he has an effective post game that should make him a solid pro. The rumored Shelden to Atlanta deal appears legit after Williams cancelled workouts with other teams in the lottery, and numerous sources are saying this promise appears likely. While this is viewed as a safe pick, in reality it's a gutless pick. Shelden is not a top 5 prospect for this draft. He might be a top 5-10 player right now, but his potential is far lower than a number of players in the draft. And while Shelden will be very solid right away, he's a short term solution to a long term problem. He's not the difference maker that they need to help them become a contender. http://nbadraft.net/draftbuzz063.asp I think the rumors of Shelden going to #5 really help the Hawks if they are looking for the Sonics to trade their #10. If the Sonices know that Shelden will not be available at #10 then there really is no reason for them to remain at that spot since it seems they are looking for a defensive presence to shore up their biggest team weakness. This causes them to either trade up to get him and in the process get rid of one of their current player's contract, or to trade their choice for a 2nd and cash. Before all this 'promise' talk, it seemed at least likely that Shelden would be available to the Sonics at #10..so if this was their target then they would not likely move up or down; however, with the inclusion of a promise to Shelden at #5 it forces their hand in favor of BK if in fact BK is hoping to obtain the Sonics pick. This chess game seems to play into the personality of BK much more than tipping his hand by giving out a promise does. I don't think he is lying about selecting Shelden at #5 if he indeed made the promise, but I think he is gaining leverage in obtaining the Sonics pick in the process. This is mere speculation but it seems plausible..at least to myself.

Washington seems like he will make a good pro in the NBA. He seems to play with a lot of heart, and he definately has the skills. Daniel Gibson displayed a lot of skills his freshmen year as well, but I'm not sure what happened this past season.

Quote: I don't see Seattle being interested in Shelden Williams. They have both Wilcox and Collison who did a credible job at PF last year. I think that the Sonic's interest in Shelden is based on his defensive skills. Its no secret that the Sonics were probably the worst defensive team in the NBA last year and at times were called the worst defensive team of recent memory. I read an article on draftexpress not too long ago talking about how they wished to upgrade their defense this offseason and I think they believe Shelden would go a long way in doing that. Also, if money is really a huge issue then I doubt they resign Wilcox.

Quote: The two best pure PGs in this draft are: Rajon Rondo and Jordan Farmar. I think Marcus Williams is one of the best pure points along with these two guys, but I will agree that Farmar is right there with those 2 guys. Farmar is my sleeper to be the best PG in this draft. He has always had the court vision, passing and dribiling ability, and defense, but now questions about his athletic ability have been answered somewhat by his 40+ inch verticle.

If the Hawks were to make a trade with the Sonics would you rather trade A) the 5th pick for the 10th pick and a player or B) our 2nd round pick and cash for the 10th pick I was leaning towards the 5th pick if we could get Petro, but now I'm considering option B more if we can get Shelden/LA and Rondo/Foye. The Sonics have a lot of interest in Shelden reportedly due to his defensive skills, something they seriously lacked last year.

Quote: What I am saying is that if a good deal for Marvin (that helps the Hawks) comes along, then Marvin get your rugrats Backpack, your spongebob pillow and be on your way... Too many of you guys are willing to kill the team in hopes of proving that Marvin was a good pick. That's Backwards. Team comes first. I think we can expect to see more of Marvin's potential this season. He didn't seem ready right away, and as the year went on he improved in both stats and team play. Its too soon to tell if he was the right pick yet or not, but I think we'll get a better idea after this season. Chris Paul would have made this team better just like he did the Hornets. We would simply be a defensive big man away from being a great team with Paul/JJ/Smoove/Harrington/Zaza starting and Chill/Salim/Lue off the bench. But given that, I still think Marvin potentially can become the best player in that draft, the only problem with potential is that you never know if it will be maximized or not. IF we were to trade Marvin so soon I would only do it for another rising young star. A trade such as Marvin/Al for D. Howard for instance, but I seriously doubt the Magic would bite at that. Another trade I love is Marvin for Livingston which I think Diesel has suggested before. Seems fair straight up, and Livingston would fit in perfect for this team. One of the best fits currently in the NBA for this team since he is young, fast, athletic, and a true pass first PG. With Livingston/JJ/Smoove/Al/Zaza with Lue/Chill/Salim and this years 1st round pick off the bench, we would be a very dangerous team assuming Livingston can stay healthy. I think AL's lack of rebounding and defense wouldn't be so noticable if we had another defensive big to swap in and out with Zaza. There wouldn't be many rebounds or blocks left with Smoove and the defensive big back there.

PF for our team or C? Even if we dont keep Al around it seems like Smoove and Marvin should be our starting forward combo, and Zaza is fine at C for now. I don't see Shelden starting over any of those 3, and it seems like a bad move not picking up a starter at the #5 pick. Shelden fills a need as far as a defensive presence goes, but I think its possible to pick that up with our #33 pick in a player like Solomon Jones or Justin Williams, ect. Both are rather bad on the offensive end, but could be very good on the defensive end. I think with the #5 selection we should look to add a starter to this team even if its not an immediate starter. Roy, Foye, Aldridge, or Marcus Williams should be the selection, even though I don't think we should pick Marcus here. If we could somehow trade down and get both Shelden and Rondo or Farmer then that could be a good move. I just dont feel comfortable selecting Shelden that high simply because he will never be a starter on this team in my belief.

Quote: It wasn't 100% of their roster that they turned over. My mistake - They did keep 2 players between 03' and 04' seasons in Pat Garrity and Deshawn Stevenson, not counting Grant Hill and Andrew DeCclerq who combined only played 49 mins. The hawks between 03' and 04' kept 2 players also including Boris Diaw and Jason Collier. So I guess between the 03' (3 years ago) ind 04' (2 years ago) seasons that both teams in fact lost all but 2 players that played in the previous season with the respective team. The Magic have shifted an aging team centered around McGrady and his bad back, and focused it around potential stars such as Dwight Howard, Nelson, and perhaps even Milicic. They have their vet leadership and contribution from Grant Hill much like we do in JJ, and their rising stars which we have in Josh Smith, Marvin Williams, and Childress. All I'm saying is that the two are very similar situations and circumstances. Two teams rebuilding in the same time frame with the Magic being slightly better by a small margin to date instead of saying only the Hawks "turned over 100% of their roster". Yes neither Collier or Diaw play for the team now, but they did in the 04' season during this new rebuilding process and can not be discounted.

Quote: Once again, another stupid reference to the 39 wins in two seasons, completely ignoring the 100% turnover of the roster in those two seasons and the fact that the Hawks field the youngest team in the league. I challenge anyone to find another team that completely turned over their roster in two years and doubled their win total during that time. Doubled their win total? Can't do that for you; however, the Orlando Magic have turned over their roster 2 years ago and went from 21 wins in 04' to 36 wins in 05' which may not be doubled...but it is 15 more wins whereas the hawks only improved by 13. The magic also have a very promising young team.

I disagree. There is a high possibility that the Bobcats and Blazers choose two out of the group of Roy, Gay, and Morrison. If 2 of those are taken there then that would mean Aldridge or Thomas drop to us. In my opinon if we are hoping for Aldridge at the 5 our biggest threat is Chicago taking him 2nd. If they don't and barring a trade then it's very likely he does drop to us at 5.

I'll include his profile here to give everyone an idea. http://draftexpress.com/viewprofile.php?p=606

Gorden for Al might be one of the best deals we could get done. It would make sense for the bulls in a sense because they get that post scorer they need and also get a vet which they were hoping to get this offseason. The bulls feel they are very close to being able to compete and from what it seems, wish to get older and more experienced. Roy is a solid player and Al would be able to produce more offensively than Bargani or Aldridge or Thomas are likely to during their first NBA season. Meanwhile I think Gorden could compliment JJ well, and that would free us to take a big man in the 1st such as Aldridge or trade down for Landlord, and also a potential defensive stopper in the 2nd such as Solomon Jones.

I've heard some members raving about his shot-blocking ability, and defensive abilities, and that he could be the next Theo Ratliff. From the limited amount I was able to see Justin Williams I saw a foul prone big man with no offensive abilities to speak of. As far as ball handling skills for a big man..he's a liability and he is also rail thin to be a defensive stopper of sorts. All this added to the fact that he played against poor competition doesn't sit well with me and I hope the Hawks do not select him. A better choice in my mind is Solomon Jones. He is the same height with a large wingspand and could also be a potential defensive stopper in the NBA. He played nightly against much better competition in the Big East and appeared to be a very good rebounded as well. This seems like a much better pick if the Hawks are looking for a defensive big man with the 2nd round pick. It's a guy that can come out on the court...stay on the court.. and be a defensive stopper as a back up to Zaza. I've seen too many big men with potential to be defensive stoppers who were foul prone, and who could not handle the ball at all...this is just what Justin Williams reminds me of.