VarsitySlacker

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/trad...~21~16~21~16~16 This is the only thing that I could get to go through on either trade checker, RealGM or ESPN. This of course does not take into account draft picks, but it's reason for concern. The Hawks are giving up Marvin and Shelden already, do we really want to lose the 3 and the 11 as well? In this case (which I think it has already become farfetched enough to be impossible), I'd want to keep the 11 to draft a PG.

The problem that I've been having with this trade, is that I can not find any possible way to get the salary to work out without either a) Phoenix sending a whole bunch of sh!t to Minnesota for Salary purposes, or b) Kurt Thomas being included. I don't see Minnesota wanting the former, and I would think the latter would have been announced, as Thomas would be a pretty crucial part of the deal working, correct me if I'm wrong.

We begin in the mid-afternoon, a dimly lit basement, the only light coming from the glow of a computer screen, glimmering out enough light to show an old Steve Smith poster and a few pennants. Diesel: Hmm, what can Diesel post today? "Diesel's thoughts on the draft?" No, Diesel did that one a week ago. "Diesel on the point guard situation?" No, Diesel did that one yesterday. "Diesel on the state of the Hawks?" That's always a good one. Or I could always go for the "Diesel blockbuster trade of the day." Those are always fun to write. Diesel sure does love Hawksquawk, and Hawksquawk loves him back. Imagine what would happen if Diesel did not post, there would be no controversy, and this place thrives on controversy. We cut to a cubicle somewhere in Atlanta, where a slightly older, slightly more professional looking man is sitting at his computer desk, alt+tabbing between Microsoft Excel and Mozilla Firefox, where you can see glimpses of Hawksquawk and espn.com. Sothron: Something big is going to happen today. I know it. My sources have been pretty accurate before, and I don't doubt them here. Pan out now to a brightly-colored bedroom with an Ibook open and a girl not far out of high-school feverishly pressing f5. jsmoovefemalefan: Not important...not important...Ooh, this one say something about smoove! what does it say, it better have something to say about how great he is, hes not getting enough credit for how important he is. what do you mean, overrated? josh is one of the best young players in the nba today, and im going to argue with you until you agree with me. Cut now to a room similar to Diesel's basement, where the light is equally poor. nbasuperstar40: This is just too easy... ***NEWSWIRE FLASH*** Rumors are circulating that Phoenix will trade for Minnesota PF Kevin Garnett in a three-team trade. In return, Phoenix will send PF/C Amare Stoudemire to Atlanta, who will package the #3 and #11 pick as well as C Zaza Pachulia to Minnesota to complete the deal. Salary issues are being worked out between the teams. ***END NEWSIRE FLASH*** Sothron: Holy sh!t, this is it! I have to admit, I wasn't expecting something this big, but this is great. My sources come through again! Diesel: (Why didn't I think of that?) Diesel does not believe it. Diesel thinks that the Hawks should instead concentrate their efforts on Pau Gasol or Jermaine O'Neal, as Diesel has proposed multiple "Diesel trade of the days" that would allow the Hawks to get them for much less the cost. In fact, last week's "Diesel trade of the day" allowed the Hawks to get Jermaine O'Neal for Zaza and the 11 pick, and Indiana would OF COURSE accept that, because Diesel proposed it. jsmoovefemalefan: thats cool and all, amare would be great next to smoove. their the best young players in the nba today and will create a great core today nbasuperstar40: Wow, Amare is a great player, he can start over Smith (Who is terribly overrated anyways). Maybe with someone who can actually play PF, we can trade Smith to someone else for a PG who can actually play. jsmoovefemalefan: what are you nuts? smoove is not overrated hes great, one of the best in the nba. boy, im glad you're not running the team! Walter: Or we could trade Marvin... Inevitably, someone: Diesel: Diesel agrees with trading Marvin. Inevitably, someone: lol diesel why do you keep trading marvin Johnny_Bravo: We don't need to trade anyone. We can shift JJ to the point and sign Vince Carter to a four year, 62 million dollar contract and put asses in seats. Salim Stoudamire can also get 15 minutes a game, and we can draft Acie Law. It will be the best offseason ever. suns_fan: ***NEWSWIRE ALERT*** We have just learned that owner Steve Belkin of the Atlanta Hawks has possibly vetoed a trade that would enable Kevin Garnett to unite with MVP Steve Nash of the Phoenix Suns. More to come. ***END NEWSIRE*** Any sensible Hawks fan: Are you f*cking kidding me? Walter: This is Billy Knight's fault. Diesel: Hm, this makes more Diesel trade-of-the-days possible. I wonder if we could send Amare to Indiana for Jermaine O'Neal in a four team deal. nbasuperstar40: [censored], this is terrible! Quick, someone get Steve Kerr on the line and tell him we'll trade them Josh Smith as well! jsmoovefemalefan: what are you nuts, is a good thing that your not running this team! Inevitably, at some point: , other random bananas that people like to post. Diesel: Well, this means that we can draft Yi at three like Diesel always wanted to do. Diesel's draft picks are infallible, as Diesel wanted Roy, Deron, and Deng in the last few picks. Diesel also would have picked Gilbert Arenas in the first round, and would have picked Michael Jordan over Sam Bowie. Actually, Diesel would have picked Sam Bowie, and would have traded him to Chicago for Michael Jordan and four draft picks. And Chicago would have done it, because you can't argue with a Diesel trade of the day. graymule: Whatever happens, happens, as this team just keeps giving us more excitement. nbasuperstar40: Diesel, you keep talking about Yi at three, obviously you just don't know what you're talking about. He's a bust, a... Johnny_Bravo: Stiff is the word you're looking for. Everybody who does not score 20 points a game and get featured on Sportscenter is a stiff. nbasuperstar40: Right. What we need is a bonafide talent like Brandon Wright. The kid is the third of the superstars in this draft, and people are looking short-term and missing it. I propose that we try to trade Smith for the 4 pick (If Memphis will take it), because Wright will amount to SO much more. jsmoovefemalefan: what are you nuts? Its a good thing youre not running this team. nbasuperstar40: You're an asshat. jsmoovefemalefan: well i dont care what you think. ***NEWSWIRE FLASH*** The Suns have announced that they have no intent of making a deal in which Amare Stoudamire goes to Atlanta. More to come ***END NEWSWIRE FLASH*** Walter: This is Billy Knight's fault. Sothron: Oh, we were so close. Diesel: Diesel knew that Sothron was lying. Diesel's trades of the day are a much better indicator of the future. Sothron: Are you kidding me? Hawks nation:*sigh* drzachary: This calls for corndogs! VarsitySlacker: Hmm, Braves game is over, Vernon Wells still won't produce, and my fantasy baseball team is in the pits. Let's see what's going on in Hawksland HOLYSHIT! *reads* oh. *reads* Well, crap. Inevitably, by someone: Coming soon: Nothing happens. Did I get a pretty good basis of the past week?

Honestly, teke, nobody has the depth to catch you. You had the most absurd luck in the world, as your use of Yahoo! pre-rankings rather than being at the draft has managed to net you career years from Peavy, Rodriguez, Putz, and Posada, and your early pickup of Hardy proved to be much better than anyone could have expected. Also, I think your obtaining of Pettite for Clemens was INFINITELY less even than Bush for Clemens, but that's baseball for you (and I vetoed his trade myself) I'm just hoping to finish top seven. I've jumped 50 points and 9 spots in the past 40 days, and I figure that Vernon Wells has to get hot at some point, right? Anybody? I'm just amazed that out of my first five picks, Vernon collapsed, Carpenter managed one start, Rivera decided to [censored] the bed for the first half of the season, and Ramon Hernandez has played maybe a quarter of the games. I've gotten more production from Chipper Jones than any of them, and he's the one I was expecting the least from. Thank God for Kevin Youkilis playing a zillion years above his head and Griffey staying healthy for the first time since 1995.

Quote: Who are these mysterious vets? And considering that we are nearing the cap with Smoove and Marvin coming up for extentions, who do we sign that won't put us over the luxury tax in 2 years? Aren't you signing Vince Carter to a 6 year, 56 million dollar contract or something? It's laughable that all the sudden you're concerned about salary.

Quote: Small PGs with no shooting touch are injuries waiting to happen.. Case in point: TJ Ford. Brevin Knight. Speedy Claxton. Plus.. how do you come for a workout out of shape? You're right, it's much safer for big PGs who like to drive. They're much less likely to get possibly career-ending knee injuries.

Pepe Sanchez had a fun name, and Matt Maloney was a better starting backup PG than any of the ones we have right now. And Lee Nailon holds the reputation of being the only guy that I can remember that actually got dropped midseason because of his ineffectiveness after getting fairly significant numbers to start off the year.

Absolutely. I've said, and would say again, I would package anybody on this team that is not JJ or Smoove with the 3 pick to get Aldridge and Jack. Trading the 3 for Aldridge straight up would be absolutely golden, because a big man is what we were going to have problems drafting at the three. Worst case scenario from there would be picking up whomever we prefer of Crittendon and Law at the 11.

Neither one of those guys is a center. Yi is considered by a lot of people to not even be strong enough to play PF. And if we start the season with Noah at the C, then I will renounce my fandom.

You wouldn't do it from Atlanta's perspective, BusBoy? I don't understand why, I wouldn't do it from Minnesota's (though it would be tempting) How exactly can Atlanta lock up all five positions this offseason better than what would happen in this trade? There are NOT any better C options than Zaza in the draft now that Hibbert is gone, and trading for Garnett is by all means an upgrade over drafting Wright. Assuming Conley is still there at the 7 pick, he'd also be an upgrade over who we would take at the 11. By shedding Lue/Wright/Marvin/Extra Draft Pick/either Shelden or Childress, you're not putting a salary burden on the team, as the sum of all that is a wash with Garnett at the least. As for depth, what does that even matter right now? If Woodson does stay, he only plays his top 7 anyways. Solomon, Speedy, AJ, and Shelden or Childress will still be there for a 9 man rotation. Wheras Minnesota has potential, yes, but a team of Foye/Davis/Marvin/Wright/Blount isn't exactly an upgrade over what they already had, and now their big trading chip in Garnett is gone.

Quote: Also, trade Speed, Lo for Brenda... That's our team!! Law, JJ, JS, Yi, Aldridge... Portland does not take Marvin for Aldridge straight up. Just because they need to trade one of Aldridge and Randolph does not mean they'll take 60 cents on the dollar for the better of the two. We'd have to throw in the 11 as well, at the very least. I'd still do it, and pick Conley at 3. Washington probably doesn't do the trade either, even though Haywood has publicly requested a trade. Speedy is nigh untradeable unless we're giving talent with him. Lo does not count as talent. The Wizards aren't going to take our scrubs to appease a guy they could just bench instead.

Absolutely. Chill for Haywood in itself is giving up talent for need, but if we could shed Speedy's contract in the process it will free us up. If Haywood is indeed an "average" center and can play "average" defense, we come out on top. It will also make it easier to draft BPA at the 3 and get the best remaining PG at the 11, and free up a little salary room in the process.

Quote: I'm not against trading the #3 pick/Lue for Bynum/19. LA moves the #3 pick to Minnesota with Odom/Radman to get Garnett. Oh God, this. Can we do this? We don't even need the 19 pick back. I would do 3 and Lue for Bynum in a heartbeat, and pick up whoever's left with 11. Hell, I'd trade 3/11/Lue for Bynum/19 if need be.

You're right, they definately need Tyronne Lue to teach Jarret Jack, Sergio Rodriguez, and Brandon Roy how to play ball. If anything, their problem as that their team is now too stacked, because they have a bonafide star Center and two bonafide star PFs who can't play SF along with an above average SF. If we can make a deal, it'd involve Marvin and Aldridge, but that's equally unlikely.

A trend that I've noticed FOREVER on this board is that people are always saying "I always liked this player over this player" and trying to flaunt it over everyone else, when in fact they can city posts for every single player in the vicinity saying that they like them. So just make it simple here: Post your top 11 as far as where you would want the Hawks to draft. Mine: The first two are obvious: 1. Greg Oden 2. Kevin Durant Beyond that, there is a gap of talent. We can't draft the seriously worse player because of need, so BPA out of 3. Brandan Wright 4. Yi Jianlan This is tentative, because I honestly haven't seen enough out of either to justify them over the other, but from what I understand it's a fairly big talent gap between them and what we need. From this point ( aka at the 11 pick, whoever's highest on this board remaining) we're going for need 5. Mike Conley 6. Javaris Crittendon 7. Acie Law IV 8. Roy Hibbert 9. Corey Brewer 10. Al Horford 11. Anybody BUT Joakim Noah. So it's pretty simple, and fairly similar to what CBA said his plan was - draft for talent at 3, for need at 11. While I see C being a bigger need than PG, I also see a good to great PG being available, while only a servicable center. So go, post your board. If you'd like to justify, then go ahead. But let this be what we can point back to come January when Morris Almond is tearing the league up and someone is saying they knew all along they should take him with the 11 pick.

So I'm just curious, CBA - I agree that we can't justify taking Hibbert at 3, and don't really like Conley there either. It's been bothering me, so whoever we decide is best of Yi and Wright goes with the 3 pick. So if Hibbert falls down to 11, do we take him or the PG?

Honestly, I'd trade 3 and Marvin or 3,11, and Childress for either 1 or 2 without blinking. I don't think either Portland or Seattle would consider it, though. It's possible we may be able to swing 11 and Marvin for Aldridge, which I'd also be in favor of.

Johnny, I have to admit, I came into this thread to mock another JohnnyBravo name exploitation thread, but I'm impressed. This is actually realistic and doesn't overvalue either our players or name players - I think Childress may be worth a little more, but not much, and I think 7 mil is a good peg for Darko if someone doesn't Foyle him into some money. Bravo.

teke's problem is that he looks almost solely at either the "rank" or "o-rank" category and judges players from there.

In no way did this merit it's own thread in addition to shitting up the other one. If you two would like to stroke your own message board egos, find a nice unused board to do it in, or hell, do it in the Lounge. The funny thing about this forum is that it's to discuss the Hawks, not the Hawk's message board posters egos. Bumpy, I don't necessarily disagree with you. However, the anti-Diesel angle has been taken time and time again, and does nothing to cut off his ego, or the third-person titled threads. All it does is spur him on to create more threads to get more attention. By devoting a post to him, you're giving it to him. Stop. This goes for both of you.

I'm in shock as to how many of you are arguing this. Look at it this way, assume that BK picked the best player available in retrospect, which one of these teams would be the best. Do not tell me that "if we had drafted x, we would have drafted y the next year" because we all know that BK would have kept drafting SFs, just tell me which team would be the best. 2003, we could draft Howard, Barbosa, or Haslem ASSUMING (which may or may not be fair) that we don't trade this pick for Joe and instead trade another marginal player Barbosa Speedy Speedy JJ JJ JJ Marvin Howard Smoove Smoove Smoove Haslem Zaza Zaza Zaza 6 - Chill 6 - Marvin 6 - Marvin 2004 Speedy JJ Deng/Iggy Smoove Zaza 6 - Marvin 2005 Paul/Deron JJ Childress Smoove Zaza 6 - Speedy 2006 Roy JJ Marvin Smoove Zaza 6 - Childress By my count, the best teams, in order, or '05, '06, '04, and '03. That is the order, thus, for worst to first draft decisions. I did switch out '05 and '06, because I (still) believe that Marvin can close the talent gap with Paul more than Shelden can with Roy with time (And goddammit, this is not what we're debating). Diaw was obviously not an incredible pick, but he was the least costly pick that we made.

Quote: Every few weeks, Diesel comes out with something so absurd that you would think he couldn't do any worse. Yet, he always comes through. Trust me, before next season starts, he'll come out with several new ideas even more ridiculous than this. He got no filter. With this trade, Diesel is working on our subconscious minds to make us realize how bad Marvin is (compared to Paul). Here I was thinking that the record he had broken is the seven posts on the front page entitled "Diesel *.*" Considering how often it's been done, I think that's a pretty impressive record to break.

I did the same thing most of you did, double-taking at Diaw being second best, but think about it. This is not PICK WHICH PLAYERS ARE THE GREATEST HAWKS. In 2003, BK took Diaw. Hawks fans wanted: Probably Diaw The media: Didn't give a [censored]. Player behind him that turned out better: Josh Howard, Leandro Barbosa, Udonis Haslem In 2004, BK took Childress Hawks fans wanted: Deng or Iggy The media wanted: Deng Players behind him who turned out better: Deng, Iggy, Jefferson, Josh Smith, possibly J.R. Smith, Kevin Martin In 2004, BK took Smoove Hawks fans wanted: Smoove The media (minus Jay Bilas) wanted: Smoove Players behind him that turned out better: N/A In 2005, BK took Marvin Hawks fans wanted: Paul The media wanted: Marvin Players behind him that turned out better: Paul, Williams, (debatable: Ellis, Villanueva, Bynum, Jack, Lee) In 2006, BK took Shelden Hawks fans wanted: Roy or Foye The media wanted: Roy or Foye Players behind him that turned out better: Roye, Foye, Gay, Sergio Rodriguez In terms of sheer players who would have been better picks, Diaw is second. In terms of franchise-altering players picked after, Diaw is still second. He's not an impressive pick, but at the 21 pick, if you can pick an NBA-caliber-backup, you're doing good. Diaw was more than that.

Quote: Quote: Wasn't Terry only signed for 2 more seasons? I'm pretty sure Dallas has already had to resign him. I think he was, but I am also pretty sure that we could have kept Terry permanently. I think he was one of those "I expect to retire with the team that drafted me" type of guys. But I may be wrong. So that's why he signed with Utah and begged Atlanta not to match the offer? The best possible team we could have right now (with trades proceeding as is) is Terry JJ Harrington Wallace Zaza Which would absolutely be a better team right now - but it's still not a championship caliber team because of Zaza, and would be really expensive. is that team better than Mookie/Smitty/Corbin/Laettner/Dikembe? I don't think so.

Quote: There's that Cancer word again. That is the same garbage that you all were spitting out re: bringing AI here. By the way how did that trade to Denver work out? Denver before trading for AI: 18-12 - a .600 winning percentage Denver since trading for AI: 27-25, a .519 winning percentage. You're right, Denver is doing much better since trading for Iverson. I mean, they have 27 wins since, and only 18 before, they're obviously doing better. As for Telfair, I don't see why not. Though 1) I doubt his ego would let him sign with us (especially if not to start), and 2) We really don't need to spend any more money on backup PGs.