VarsitySlacker

I'd love to play with you guys, though it's hard to get down to Atlanta from Athens that early in the morning - I'm not much of a morning person. If you could start later, I'd be down absolutely. In reality, though, with the summer coming up anyways, I can make it down a lot easier, because I'm not going to be so dog-tired from school on weekends. If you guys set a date, I'll do my best to be there.

Yes. He's been an assistant coach here before, and I wanted to get him back when he got fired from Golden State - He doesn't do a bad job, he just gets busted by first year expectations. I think he'd be a good coach.

I may be wrong, but isn't the first tiebreaker divisional record? Because that would drop Indiana below Philadelphia for sure as of right now. That might be for playoff, or I may have just made it up.

Quote: "The best big men." I think this is the statement that needs the most examination. Are they the best big men because they are on winning teams and doing well? What about the Other guys?? Let's name some: Dwight Howard. Zach Randolph. Andrew Bogut. Eddy Curry. Elton Brand. Jermaine Oneal. Kevin Garnett. Emeka Okafor. Tyson Chandler. "the best big men" apparantly means something else to you, Diesel. To me, "best," when being stretched, means 4 players, maybe 5. 5 players who have the ability to dominate the post on both the offensive and defensive end of the court. Shaq was historically one, still is when he decides to be. Duncan is one. Stoudamire, when healthy, is one. Howard is probably there, if he isn't, he's close. Elton Brand and Carlos Boozer can make a case if we're going to use true PFs who split time. A healthy Yao Ming might top the list. I exceeded my limits, but I didn't come anywhere close to the likes of Eddy Curry or Zach Randolph, neither of which have any defensive presence whatsoever, the whole point of having a "best big man" Of the 7 I listed, 3 of them are in the top 5 teams in basketball, one has stopped trying to do anything but put on a show, so probably shouldn't be considered elite after last year ended, all of them are in the playoffs, though Howard is carrying his team by himself, as Brand all but is. The best "non big men"? Kevin Garnett tops this list. While he is big in the dictionary sense of the word, he's always played like a PG in a center's body. Because he doesn't play the "big man game," he's not one of the "best big men" (thought certainly one of the best players), but see where his team is. Shawn Marion is again one of the most talented all-around players in the past decade, but you saw what he was capable of by himself. Ray Allen is the best shooter in basketball, Gilbert Arenas is the best scorer. None of them would be in the playoffs if they were forced to carry a team on their back as do Howard and Brand. The "best big men" probably could. It wouldn't be pretty (and I have my reservations if Amare could), but they could at least squeak out a playoff birth, unlike, say, Minnesota. There are gifted players who can do that without a big man, but LeBron is the only one I can think of offhand, with a healthy Wade a good shot as well. Obviously, a team that's stacked from the top down like Detroit or Dallas doesn't need one, but that's because they're stacked. The point has already been made in this thread, but it bears reiterating: Since Michael Jordan retired and it was "the age of the dominant center" again, how many championships have been won by a team that did not include Tim Duncan or Shaquille O'Neal? The only one that I can think of is the one that had Ben Wallace make up for not being dominant offensively by being extra-dominant. And even taking the whole Decade into affect, take away Jordan's rings and you have the championships by Hakeem. I rambled here, but my point is, the age of the dominant center will NEVER be over. Overshadowed, perhaps, but there is maybe one player per decade who can when without a dominant big man. Jordan was the 90s. Kobe is the 2000s. LeBron will likely be the 2010s, and MAYBE Wade can do the same. But that's stretching it.

Wow, e-rage much there, Gutzy? I'll admit that I haven't followed PJ Brown that much recently, and when I saw his name on the FA list I looked up, I was lured by his reputation more than his current stats. However, after looking them up, in 20 minutes he's averaging 6 points, 5 boards, and about a block a game. That's worlds better than Lo, and debatable similar to Zaza. Zaza's young, and could suddenly light it up next year, but I doubt it. PJ is a hard nosed defender, though, and always has been, so I'd rather have him in. I do rescend the "Speedy contract" offer to him though, obviously, I didn't realize he was almost 40 (God, I'm getting old), but he's the kind of player that we should be paying what we're paying Lo. (For the record, the difference in Roland Ratings is about 11). The "Speedy contract" does still stand for Magloire in the scenario that we're unable to draft a Center, but ideally it wouldn't be for four years - I think Mags would rather have a year to prove his worth again. As for the Boston draft pick that you saw three words you didn't like and jumped on without reading, I was trying to use an example, and Boston was the first team I could think of that generally had high draft picks historically. I'll repeat for you, though. If Anthony Johnson was worth a extremely high second round pick, he is less valuable than both Lue and Salim (to the right team) Phil Jackson, of course, is always enamored with Lue though never able to do anything about him, and he is a good shooter. Salim is probably better than what at least 5 teams will get with their firsts this year. I'm saying this, and I absolutely loathe the guy. Honestly, trading him for Phoenix's (real) first isn't a horrible idea if they're still conserving cap space, because we all recognize that he'd be spectacular on that team, and Phoenix is selling their picks away anyways, so Salim's (near) league min is better for them for probably equal production. If I could get anything within the top 40 picks overall for either of them, I'd be content with myself. I'd try to move up, of course, but it's not a bad turnaround for essentially a minor salary dump. I also don't see McDyess playing here, if only because he WAS a star, then a champion, then a Knick. None of which or low-profile, which Atlanta is right now. Brown, on the other hand, has always been a behind-the-scenes sort of guy, and Atlanta's not that bad of a place to be when you're on your last legs. But rest assured, I'd like him on the team as well, though I don't know where he'd be able to play without ruining the rotation.

My bats are pretty weak right now, what are you looking to move?

Exponential increase in drinks every time Zaza grabs his own board in sequence. IE: Zaza shoots, misses, gets rebound: 1 drink. Misses, gets rebound: 3 drinks Misses, gets rebound: 9 drinks Misses, gets rebound: Just chug the damn beer Makes shot: Sigh of relief, pass out.

Quote: Seriously though VS...that's a pretty good analysis. I don't agree with everything you said, but I agree with most. I would go with Solomon as a backup over Este just because of ability. The benefit of the team I tried to produce is that it's strong in post players. That means that raw players such as Solomon and Este can develop and not be needed immediately or forced in without a chance to develop. I agree entirely that Solomon is a better prospect. However, I think it's better to stepladder him through the NBDL, because there's a pretty big difference between what he faced in NCAA mid-majors and the NBA. As a player that can potentially be a Ben Wallace type shot blocker, he needs to learn through experience how to not foul, and he'd be best off doing that through the NBDL so his timing would be better when we needed him. Esteban, on the other hand, is a physical player. He plays hard, he rebounds hard, he fouls hard. Some days he fouls a lot, but that's not going to change much. While he may get less violent in the NBDL, his hard fouling fits the enforcer role that he should play on the team. Also, if we send him to the NBDL, he'll loathe the franchise even more, if that's even possible. The last thing I want is for him to start looking for opportunities to get back at the Hawks if he ever signs on another team. Esteban playing extra hard against us may entail some clotheslines or spinebusters in place of a pick or block.

I've see enough posts that involve signing Vince Carter to a 70 million dollar contract or trading the farm for Jermaine O'Neal, so I figured I'd do my share and take my shot at being better than Billy Knight at his job. I'm going to assume we DON'T get a top 3 pick until the end of this post. First, and most importantly, with the Indiana pick, take whatever point guard is left and best. It's a toss up between Conley and Law, with Crittendon not far behind. Either of them is a ways ahead of what we have. Actually, I lied, and am kind of out of order: First and most importantly, Woodson has to go. I'm not as prone to fire Knight (Though I am frustrated with him, don't get me wrong, and won't be sad to see him go. Woodson, on the other hand, not only can't win games, he injures players, and that's unacceptable). I'd like to see Eric Mussleman get the shot, though I don't really have anything behind it. I seem to recall him doing a good job as an assistant coach here, and he did a good job with the youngsters as Golden State, and he let them RUN. He's not a high-profile coach like some of you want, but I don't see any high-profile coaches coming here anyways. Trade either Salim Stoudamire or Tyronne Lue for the highest draft pick you can get for them. If you can get a late first from Los Angeles, that'd be wonderful. If you can get an early second from Boston, I'd be just as happy. If Anthony Johnson was worth our second pick, I would assume Tyronne Lue would be as well. Seeing as we played without most of them for the majority of the season, I don't dropping them for draft picks would kill our depth Attempt (ATTEMPT) to sign either PJ Brown or Jamaal Magloire to reasonable contracts. Neither one of them are going to blow the world away, but they are competent big men where we have none. If either of them would accept Speedy type contracts, I'd do it. I believe Esteban still has a year on his contract. He will play, in the NBDL if not in the pros. In my mind, he plays at least 8 MPG, though. As for the top draft pick that we can pray for: If we get the first pick, pick Oden and stand pat. No further moves necessary here, you're set. (In this case, avoid signing Magloire, because first off, he won't sign to be a backup, second off, his contract will likely be more unreasonable than Brown's) If we get the second pick, take Durant. Not a hard choice. Take the now expendable Marvin Williams, and see if you can package him with Speedy Claxton as a salary dump to get a decent PG. If we could package Marvin and Speedy for Jack and a second round, I'd be thrilled. Not because I think Marvin is worth less than Jack, but because we're getting out of Speedy's contract, replacing Speedy with a good low-paid PG and a gritty competent big. If we get the third pick, trade. Trade, trade, trade. Minnesota for the 11 and McCants? Philadelphia for the 7 and Louis Williams (or Joe Smith minus a portion of his salary)? Chicago for the 10 and Chris Duhon? Depending on how well people impress, none of these are particularly bad deals for either side, but the Hawks don't need anyone projected at the 3 pick, but do in the later part of the draft, so why not trade down (Oh hey, why didn't we do that last time?) Also, avoid signing Magloire in this case, because we need one starting center ahead of Zaza, and Hibbert is at least as good as his capability From the trading down, pick the best player left on the board out of this order: Hibbert/Thabeet/Hawes/another PG. What would be the end results? If we DO NOT get a top three pick: PG:Law or Conley/Speedy/AJ SG:JJ/scrub of the week SF:Marvin (Smoove backing)/Chill PF:Smoove/Batista/Shelden/Solo C:Magloire or PJ/Zaza with at worst one first and three seconds, two of which should be high (ours not being guaranteed) FROM here, I will not LIST a backup for JJ. For the 10 or so minutes per game I don't plan on him playing, he can be backed up by Chill or one of the PGs. AJ and Law both have the capability to play SG, at least for backup amounts. If we get the top pick: PG: Law or Conley/Speedy/AJ SG: JJ SF: Marvin/Chill PF Smoove/Brown/Solo/Shelden/Batista C: Oden/Zaza We lose our first round pick, but will have three second round picks. Ideally that can be traded up for a low first (especially from a team like Phoenix that is more concerned with salary than rooks) If we get the second pick: PG: Law or Conley/Jack/AJ SG: JJ SF: Smoove/Chill PF: Durant/Shelden/Este/Solo C: Magloire or Brown/Zaza Again, we lose our first next year. In this case, we'll have 4 second round/early first round, plus the salary savings from Speedy being gone. If we get the third pick: PG: Law or Conley/AJ/Speedy SG: JJ/ Duhon or Williams or McCants et al SF: Marvin / Chill PF: Smoove / Brown / Shelden / Solo C: Center Draft Pick/Zaza / Este In the two lineups that we draft big men for, there are thirteen players on the depth chart. Worst case scenario, we sent either Esteban or Solomon to the NBDL. I'd be tempted to do it to Solomon, because I don't want to discourage Este any more. Best case scenario, howevery, we can use our sudden depth in Bigs and PGs to trade marginal players and prospects into legit backups. If we could package Zaza and AJ or Speedy to get Desagnia Diop or Sergio Rodriguez or another high upside backup, I'd be pretty euprhoic. I don't want to project trades, because I, like all of you, overrate my own players. As the year progresses, hopefully Josh Childress will as well. We will not be able to resign him, because someone will give him a starting job. I love him, but in no scenario should we promise him that, or the money that would accompany it, especially with the raise for Smoove coming. Ideally we can trade him for a combination of a low first round pick and a useful backup. I could see a team like the Suns making that trade (Well, maybe not the Suns because they hate Atlanta now, but...) So the final state of affairs: PG: Worst case: Conley or Law is starting, Speedy is wasting cap space, and AJ is a cheap backup. This is an improvement. Best Case: A combination of Conley, Law, and Jack develop the team into a team instead of wasted potential, and AJ is around for a year to mentor them. SG: Worst Case: Joe Johnson plays a lot of minutes, gets hurt again Best Case: Joe Johnson's pretty awesome, guys, and is able to do his thing without being triple teamed every game because he suddenly has a PG and an outside threat. His percentages go back to how they were in Phoenix, and he's even more deadly. SF: Worst case: Marvin Williams is still here, backed up by Josh Childress. Maybe he'll be electric, maybe he'll be average. It depends what he wants. Josh Childress gets more open shots, which he shoots a VERY high percentage of, because of the sudden introduction of a REAL PG. Best case: Josh Smith is bumped to his more natural position, where he can be a weak side defender against smaller players but can hover around the trey line as he prefers, and hopefully remembers that he can drive effectively. Childress is a very capable backup. PF: Worst case: Josh Smith is a year older and a year better, and will not have to carry the team. A PG can get him the ball and allow him to move as he pleases. Best case: Durant is the most complete player to enter the draft since Lebron, and immediately becomes the number 2 scorer on the team, possibly to be number 1 as the season progresses. This opens up the entire team, as you can't perpetually double team two people, so either Smoove will be wide open or JJ will. C: Worst case: Zaza is pushed to compete by Magloire or Brown fighting him for the starting spot, as they are capable of a REAL 11/7 (where he shoots 50-ish percent in the post and gets real rebounds, not his own). If Zaza does not step up, he doesn't start. We've improved. Best case: Greg Oden or Roy Hibbert, ideally mentored by Brown, or even Lo. All in all, I like the option of pick #2 the best. Durant is going to be a special player, and an adequate center is acceptable with a dominant PF and Smoove at SF. Also, by dumping Speedy's contract with Marvin to a team like Portland, our salary is looking good. If that money can go to a backup big, then so be it. If not, in can go into savings for locking the team up long-term. Short term, the loss of Lue and Salim's salary should cushion the blow, and Lo and AJ will be off the books for our next round of resignings. The team is deep to the 12-spor with legitimately tradable assets (if you consider Shelden tradable), and can afford to put players like Solomon or Esteban in the NBDL where they can fine-tune, without having players like Matt Frieje or Royal Ivey starting. And with at least three late draft picks, we can somehow turn that into a decent pick if packaged with one of our players. Thoughts?

Quote: So next year at this time, say we picked Oden or Hibbert and Law was still available, if Law is blowing up the League and the defensive big isn't all that, People will talk about how bad a GM BK is because he didn't pick so and so. That's all. And you'll still be talking about Marvin Williams. Your point? Said the kettle to the pot, "some people won't ever be happy"

Hah, the draft time was moved like 16 times. I kept logging in and out at random intervals because I had other stuff to do, but hell if I was going to miss the draft. I probably would have done better if I had auto-drafted, but if my young pitchers progress as I hope them too, I'm going to have a nasty pitching staff. Josh Johnson in, like, the 10th round is a steal because he's the scariest pitcher on Florida. Combined with Jered Weaver, Chris Carpenter, and Scott Kazmir I'm golden, and if Kyle Davies and John Maine can do what they're capable of, then I'll have an overabundance of great pitchers. Of course, my offense is going to suffer every time Chipper Jones and Ken Griffey Jr. get injured, but that's the price of them falling to later rounds. I swear, though, I had my eye on Robinson Cano for a round and a half, and by the time it finally got back to me, he was picked the spot before me. There were many words of vulgarity. (As was there for Miguel Cabrera the round before).

The thing about Salim (and I'll forewarn for those who don't know, I HATE the guy) is that he makes his own bed. If he comes into a game and shoots ill-advised shots, then obviously Woodson is going to pull him. By believing he has to take those shots because he'll be pulled anyways, he's creating a self-perpetuating cycle. He would be more effective if he started, I agree with that. But Johnny_Bravo is so obsessed with POINTS POINTS POINTS, he's not able to distinguish what a point guard is supposed to do, which is CREATE points. Yes, a good point guard takes their shots, I won't dismiss that, but they also know to distribute when there are better shots elsewhere - Speedy is also bad about this. Even is Salim is a 27 PPG player in 37 minutes (Which, honestly, he very well could be, at the pace he takes shots) you have to figure that his shots are taking away 10 points from ill-advised shots (and that's being conservative) as well as probably giving up 10 additional points by being a) pushed around by larger guards for an easy open basket, or B) forced out of position going for a steal, which he does quite frequently. Taking those 20 points (which are conservative totals, unless Salim suddenly ONLY shoots at that 78% pitch), you now have a net 7 PPG plaer who has no other redeeming qualities. It'd be nice to see what he could do with consistent minutes, but who do you take the minutes away from? It has to be a guard or swingman, because we can't afford to be any weaker than we already are. Obviously it's not going to be Smoove/Marvin/Childress, because they're more important to the game than Salim. AJ is the most efficient guard we have right now, so by giving Salim his minutes you're effectively killing ball movement, and Lue (as much as I hate him as well) is a team co-captain and deserves his minutes as such. That leaves Ivey's minutes (which aren't much anyways) in addition to what Salim gets. I know I'm going to get a disagreement on AJ and Lue deserving minutes over Salim, and I fully understand that it's a controversial point, but that's just my stance.

Controversial Statement of the Day: Diesel knows what he's talking about. Discuss. Three things to one" I don't think Oden is going to blow anyone away like Durant will. I think Hibbert will be a solid big, able to defend and get 12/8. Very similar to what I expect of Bogut on a nightly basis. Joakim Noah is a more athletic, less strong Shelden Williams. He looks better in the college game because he's guarding shorter people. And yes, he's a more athletic Shelden Williams, but any version of Shelden Williams is still a version of Shelden Williams. Oden has the potential to be a game-changing defensive player. Any offense that he provides is golden, but his impact to the team is going to be to grab boards and play heavy defense. And he will do that better than Hibbert or Noah. The fact that he can be a gifted scorer as well if he channels himself makes him the most enticing of the three. Then again, if Shelden Williams projects favorably to Karl Malone, and we have the potential to get a more athletic Karl Malone, then what are we waiting for? Bacon in the sky, perhaps?

Quote: Anybody can beat anybody on any given night. But I don't think Crackhouse is being honest about the top 5 thing. Keep in mind, right now top 5 in the Eastern Conference is 6 games over .500, not anything impressive. I don't think 6 games over 500 is too much to expect out of this team with development, though I wouldn't go much further than that without major piece exchanges.

...ignoring what has been said in this thread... I think this team has a lot of pieces that work. Talent-wise, I think we have a low-playoff-seed caliber team, say the 7th or 8th seed. (This is healthy) I think Josh Smith is an incredible ballplayer who, for all his faults, is exciting to watch and infuses energy into both the team and the stadium. He's CERTAINLY not a number one option, and in all honesty not really a number 2, though he can play the role (and maybe be able to develop into it if he can develop a consistent jumper), but he has shown a lot of heart in his quest to single-handedly refuse to let this team tank (much to my chagrin) I think Marvin Williams COULD develop into a second option for the team behind Joe, but I'd rather he didn't do it for us. I like the way he and Smoove play together, but I'd rather be able to develop a consistent inside-outside game, and when a team's top three scorers play on the perimeter, that's hard to develop. I think Josh Childress is a positive for any team he's on, because even though it's been said over and over, he does the little things. He hits his jumpers, he rebounds well, and he plays hard and smart. On this team, fans are expecting him to be a major scoring threat, which shouldn't be expected from him (as a player, not in comparison to who he was drafted over). Zaza is a servicable backup center in the sense that Drobjnak was. His offense is worlds over his defense, though his offense isn't very strong, and is exposed once everyone realizes to stop playing defense and let him fall over himself. I think Speedy is capable of starting, though he hasn't proven it yet. He's not capable of being anything but a last resort on the floor for shooting, though, and he needs to realize it. AJ is a good backup, and I'd rather have him than Lue, who consistently draws interest from other teams for some god unknown reason. My feelings on Salim are well-known. I don't hate him as a player, but as a player on this team. He doesn't fit. I admire his heart, but not his game. I'm not going to judge Shelden yet, because I do think he's better than he's been the second half of the year. I do think that Esteban can do whatever he does, though, if he can give a chance.

Quote: Quote: I think we have enough Youth...Now, this year, I think that the draft for us to have is to get a young PG who can be mentored by AJ and Speedy. That was cute. W *snickers*

Quote: Again, don't make comparisons with JO and T-mac when each and every year of their career their per48 stats embarrassingly DWARF MW's. Find me a player starting their career with two sub 17 per48 TENDEX averages (see http://www.dougstats.com/ ), particularly with MW's ops and MPG, who is now great. The first person I looked for: Not great by any standards, but our former "franchise player" for what it's worth. Jason Terry (from rookie year) 9.6 16.9 20.2 19.8 Perhaps Joe Johnson: 7.6 9.3 17.9 20.2 Not great? Kobe Bryant, then. 5.9 13.0 18.8 23.0 Damon Stoudamire on the other hand, 21.0 20.9 21.4 14.0 13.7 Do I win the cookie?

Quote: Walter, I agree. Unless the ownership thing is settled, he's back. As bad as that sounds, he does seem to be learning, as well as the team improving DESPITE all the weaknesses and injuries. We really can't blame him for these things he has no control over. yaaaaaaaaaaaay graymule is back And Diesel, there is no subconsciously about it. I am protank because I want Woodson gone. I said that when I finally conceded, this team will never be of importance while Woodson is at the helm. That being said, if we make the playoffs, should he get a pass? No. Will he? Yes. Right now, UK is talking about firing Tubby Smith. Compare the season UK is having with the season we're having. Head coach of a basketball team, especially an NBA team, is one of the most viotile positions in sports, because it requires high praise. Doc Rivers coached the magic to the playoffs, then missed the playoffs the next year. He was fired. Woodson hasn't come close to the playoffs (realistically) yet, so why should he get a pass? And no, he doesn't win coach of the year in a landslide if the Hawks make the playoffs. He might get enough votes to be third place, but COY goes to a coach who coached a succesful team. 35 wins, playoff or not, is not succesful. Especially considering that the team played some of it's worst ball of the year when everyone was healthy (post-all star break)

Quote: Quote: NJ, NY and Orlando won. Grr. Philly lost. Grr. W Is the tiebreaker the coinflip or does it go to head to head records first? Out of curiosity, because as I recall we're 1-2 against Philly right now...And there's a very good chance of us ending up tied with them.

northcyde, that was absolutely phenomenal, and I agree almost completely. Though I would like to amend that a championship team needs two all-star players - one who plays the one through three, and one who plays the 4 or 5. A team whose best players are it's two guards won't advance as far as one who has both an inside and outside threat. Otherwise, spot on.

For the record, if I win the lottery, I will personally donate 100 million dollars to the Atlanta Hawks to hire the general manager and coach chosen by Hawksquawk. And have money to spare.

So, JohnnyBravo is a lawyer, nbasuperstar40 is a scout. We've got the big black guy who gets laid every night making guest appearances in this thread, so I guess now would be the time to come out to you: I'm really Chris Crawford. Having actually played the game professionally, I know more about it that you. And I say that Josh Smith is a force to be reckoned with. Not a superstar, but someone who is in the top 25 percent of the league. And also, for those of you who missed it, he was the Yahoo! Fantasy Sports number one point producer not too long ago. Not to correlate fantasy sports with real life, but there is a vague correlation between "not being awful" and "Being Number 1"

Quote: if you think smoove sucks then i aint a black guy gettin laid everyday. You might want to rephrase that. Also, God, if you're out there, please lead jsmoovefemalefan into this thread. In this season full of little to be happy with, the collision of opposite forces, equally idiotic, in a spectacular collision would bring a lot of happiness to my world. Let there be lots of emoticons and inane logic.

Quote: just as skilled? When was the last time he put up 32 pts. in a game? Law did this against Texas on primetime television and hit a buzzer beater and a near-buzzer beater to take his team to two overtimes...while playing for Texas A&M (when did they last have a decent Bball team?) When is the last time Joe Johnson scored 50 points in a game? Tony Delk did it twice within a week.

Lost in the shuffle is the fact that Indiana has lost 5 games in a row, and is now down to .500 on the season (which, granted, is the 6 seed in the East). Considering they have a fairly tough schedule to finish the season, and a 3 game swing can propel them down to the 11th worst record, this offseason may look a lot better than we could have hoped.