Atlantaholic

DJM at SG can't defend. Trae is trying and no longer the liability that he was but at his size he is always going to be at best a net neutral type guy. Hunter is mid, JJ is still young and learning, Clint has declined, OO is good but he is also undersized and picks up too many fouls. Scheme isn't the issue, we just don't have the guys. 

8 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

I honestly don't know how you fix this team. Literally, everyone else in our division is in a better position for the future than us. 

I don't know either, but pretty obvious to me that Trae+DJM isn't it. 

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

We did pursue, Indy never bit on our offers. 

 

We pursue on a lot of guys. A lot of teams pursue on our guys but teams want value and some won't Budge 

Make sense, I mean it took Haliburton for Indy to let him go so that should tell you all you need to know. I honestly thought it was insane for Sacramento to trade Hali, but Sabonis has upped his game and made the trade not that lopsided. 

4 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

We need a Sabonis trade. Where we get a young stud in return for someone looking for someone that can make their offense a lot better and grow the rest of the players. 

We can't afford a trade that's anything less for Trae or Murray. 

We look more like the Wall/Beal Wizards than those Pistons or Warriors. 

Sabonis... another guy we look mighty dumb for never pursuing. He would be a phenomenal fit with Trae Young. 

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

You cared before ... when you were wolfing about how bad a combo we have. 

How many championship teams had the best guard combo?  Pistons to start. Warriors got next. 

Yeah, we know historically the way to a title has been through a dominant big but things change. you can get there by a variety of ways.. if not then Teams without a dominant big should just stop playing. 

 

Whatever, I never said they were bad but go off. I'm just explaining the obvious verifiable fact that DJM and Trae have not been a championship-caliber pairing at any point in the last 80 games+, and they are both diminished versions of the players they were before DJM joined the team. This is not an opinion, it is a fact. 

And final thought on our "best guard combo". Pretty telling to me both guys were individually much, much better the final year they played without each other. 

Also I think if we trade Trae there is zero chance we get a player that has anywhere near his ceiling back in return, so it's probably not worth it unless we want to just go for some picks and rebuild. But I don't think anyone wants a full rebuild at this point. 

Just now, NBASupes said:

This wouldn't be a problem if Trae was making 33 million per like Murray. By him making what he makes, it requires him to be this offensive player in the same tier as Luka putting up idiotic numbers but he's not. Trae's salary is a cap hindrance. That's our biggest killer. 

He totally was looking like he could be that player right before that Miami series, but he has regressed really significantly. I think that Trae getting back to that level is completely possible, and I think it's more likely that happens than DJM ever morphing into a suitable co-superstar for Trae. I like DJM but at SG he is clearly out of position. 

I went to a Thrashers game once and despite being a complete noob I had a f***ing blast. Hockey is a lot of fun live. 

Just now, Diesel said:

You're right.  But the potential for being a great scoring duo is there and we know it because we have seen it.

And Trae's defense is a lot better. 

I can think of several guard combos around the league that are worse. 

 Who cares lol. Do they hand out a best guards award championship at the end of the year? How many championship teams had the best guard combo. We need to take down Embiid + Maxey (over 50 ppg) , Jokic (will probably be winning 3rd MVP in 4 seasons assuming Embiid doesn't steal it again), Jason Tatum/Brown (+50ppg) /Porzingis/Jrue Holiday - Dame and Gianni. Virtually every top 4 team in either conference has at least one if not two players who are better than our best player. That's the problem. 

1 minute ago, Diesel said:

Again, Not going with that.  You can keep up that last year arguments if you like.   They don't fit what's on the floor this year.  Trae has been slumping... if he's out of his slump, he and DJ are one of the best two pairings in the league.   Tonight they combined for 

66 points, 13 assists, and 5 rebounds with 5 steals.   On 66.6% from the field and 64% from three.   You don't get that from many other guard combos...

Its a patience thing not a talent thing. 

 

If they averaged 66 points you'd be right. But they don't and never have, and probably never will. 

Just now, NBASupes said:

You guys wanna bitch and moan about Hunter and Clint not realizing, this is their range. Upgrading from that is HARD. 

People forget we got Clint almost for free. The league is aware of his achilles thing and it adds so much risk that it kills his value. And no one is giving up a serviceable 3 & D guy. You need to draft those guys, and sadly for us we got saddled with Hunter/Cam instead of Cam Johnson or Mikal Bridges in that draft. 

2 minutes ago, terrell said:

We passed on 2 of the best players in the NBA right now..

Because one wasnt black enough, and the other said he didnt want to be here... smh

Thanks Schlenk..

I feel a lot worse about Hali than Doncic. Doncic is showing there is only one way to play on a Doncic team and just like Houston with James Harden, I don't think that is EVER winning a championship. 

2 minutes ago, NBASupes said:

Better versions of Dre aren't available.

Shit, better versions of Clint aren't available. 

 

You asking for studs. Guys on Murray or Trae level. How many people want to give that away?

Yes, I'm not even saying about the feasability of it, I know we aren't upgrading any of those positions outside of getting some miraculous pick like JJ to pan out. But in a perfect world where we upgrade all of this somehow, this team still isn't good enough with Trae and DJM as your two stars is my point. Even if we got a third star it would take so much that the resulting team probably wouldn't be good enough either. 

5 minutes ago, Atlantaholic said:

This core hasn't played defense in like over 160 games man. This ain't it. If Trae has a lot more games like this one tonight we will have a shot at the 6th or 5th seed, and if not it's the playin for the third season in a row. Trae-DJM is not a good fit defensively and offensively it isn't great enough to justify the ass defense we'll consistently play. If we are married to this pairing than we need to fill the team with better defenders but it's tough because we also need great shooters around Trae, and great shooters are usually not great defenders and vice-versa.

To elaborate: I guess my thesis is. Even if we upgrade our "weak links" say replace Hunter can Cap with better versions of themselves, add another backup C, play JJ at SF more etc... This team is probably not good enough to beat Boston - Philly - Nugs - Bucks in a 7 game series anyway. 

21 minutes ago, Diesel said:

I'm not going to go with that. 

We are 13 games into a new offense and new defense and we're showing that we can be hella good.   You can't look at 86 points in a half and say we suck.  if you do then FY.  I think we're good enough we just got to get to the place where we are consistently bringing it.   In order to bring it, it means that we have something to bring... and we do. 

 

This core hasn't played defense in like over 160 games man. This ain't it. If Trae has a lot more games like this one tonight we will have a shot at the 6th or 5th seed, and if not it's the playin for the third season in a row. Trae-DJM is not a good fit defensively and offensively it isn't great enough to justify the ass defense we'll consistently play. If we are married to this pairing than we need to fill the team with better defenders but it's tough because we also need great shooters around Trae, and great shooters are usually not great defenders and vice-versa.

4 minutes ago, JayBirdHawk said:

No awareness from DJ - regarding time on clock and score.

 

 

Not even looking to kick is criminal. 

But whatever, pointless to make this about Hunter. He isn't the main issue. The team is just not good enough in the loaded east top to bottom. Trae is still our best player but while at his best he's been a top 10 player, right now he's around top 25. The Hawks are deep, but lack size and defense and the top two stars just don't measure up compared to the really good teams top guys. Sad facts. 

6 minutes ago, terrell said:

Here's one more..

Hunter is the Lowest Motor player with his physical potential in Hawks history.

Tell me Im lying.. lol

It's not just motor. He has some of the worst handles in the NBA at SF, he's one of the least effective passers too. Defensively I feel like he is mostly effective against other longer slower players at the wings. Smaller quicker players which are the majority of guys at SG and SF cook him. 

Dre is simply not a difference maker on the court. Every analytic that exists isn't wrong every single year. 

2 minutes ago, TheNorthCydeRises said:

Quin is right to double Haliburton . . but don't do it 3/4 court.  Do it in the half court, so that the people trapping can get back.

I was told Haliburton doesn't get doubled 

1 minute ago, NBASupes said:

He's not top 10 but he's clearly top 20. We should have took him and traded Trae

He's the entire Pacers #1 ranked offense. 

Haliburton is the second best player in the NBA and 23 years old. 

Pacers coming back down to earth a little bit last game. Hopefully they stay cold. 

If we had Clint from a few years ago we'd be in great shape. Should have traded Clint several years ago when his chronic achilles condition and his resulting declining play started rearing their head.