Hatertots

What happens if Lebron gets hurt? Or Dwight? Or Peyton Manning? The team nosedives; no one's coming off the bench to replace a guy like that. Not for any team in any sport. It's not something you can plan for.

Eazy- Marion has shot .341 from behind the arc for his career, quite acceptable IMO. And I would caution against using last year as a starting point for the expectations for this year's Heat team. Wade was injured all last season and not up to his normal standards while Marion only played 600 and changed minutes in a Miami uni. This part isn't directed at you, Eazy, but just sort of in general, I can't understand why people are sleeping on Miami. I understand that they have shortcomings at C and PG, but they have a player that averages 24 ppg on 48% shooting, with 6.5 assists, nearly 5 rebounds and 2 steals, and he chips in a shade under 1 block as a 6-4 guard. I'm sure they would be better off if they had a productive PG, but as far as I can remember (I'm not taking the time to look it up) Wade has never played with a great PG in the past, or even an average one. Does anyone know who's the best PG Miami's had since 2003? White Chocolate maybe? He doesn't really need someone to set him up and based on his assist totals, it's clear he does a little setting up of his own, ala LBJ. Even assuming that the team does have problems in the middle on defense or with their 3 pt shooting, I can see their front office making moves to shore up those issues if a playoff run seems imminent. After all, they did put together a title winning team just a couple of years ago, something not too many mediocre FO's ever do. Of course, we're talking about today, and today those moves have yet to be made. Even so, Miami fields a real superstar in Dwyane Wade (and, according to some, a second in Shawn Marion, but at any rate, at least one). Before I end this post, let me leave y'all with one last McNugget for thought; in the 2007-08 season, every team that featured at least one superstar made the playoffs, with the arguable exception of Baron Davis and the Warriors, a very good team that won 48 games (3 more than Lebron and the Cavs, a 5th seed and the worst team with a superstar) and missed the playoffs by a margin slimmer than an anorexic supermodel in an unbelievably strong year for the Western Conference. In other words, if this were a PowerPoint presentation, the intro slide would read Superstars and the Eastern Conference Playoffs: Welcome to the Dance

Fros, 80% of a team's success is determined by the top 3 players on a team. It's called the Pareto principle and it's an astonishingly good indicator of team success. KG/Pierce/Rondo, CP3/Chandler/West, Kobe/Pau/Odom, Duncan/Manu/Parker (and so on and so on) all account for the majority of their team's wins . Wade/Marion/Beasley is a pretty good trio of players, even if Beasley turns out to be below average. You're right to point out that the rest of the roster isn't anything to write home about, which is why I don't think they can make it past the 2nd round of the playoffs, when the supporting casts separate the elite teams from the pretenders. Without some quality additions, Miami is a pretender. But the C's didn't have their bench set at the start of last season, so we'll see what happens. But getting a top-flight threesome is the hardest part. Barring injuries, I think they can win 40-44 games, as presently constructed. If all the major players from Atlanta perform up to last year's standards, I think we're looking at a 30-35 win season. Horford/Smith/JJ is a good trio, but none is elite (yet). Their better is better than our better.

I'm betting that they'll be a much better team this year for the same reason that New Orleans was so much better last year: they got their superstar back. For all of the things that Miami doesn't have, the things that they do have make them competitive in the East, namely, they have two above average rebounders in Haslem and Marion and an elite scorer in Wade. I respectfully disagree with your position that Atlanta has more talent than the Heat. Wade is one of the five to ten most productive players in the NBA when healthy, as he appears to be based on his Olympic play. The Hawks don't have anyone nearly so talented. I agree that the Hawks have a greater number of talented players than the Heat, but unfortunately, Wade is the best player by a wide margin on either team, and that counts for a lot in basketball. But FWIW, I'll be much happier if it turns out that you're right!

Barring injuries, I'd be very surprised if Miami misses out on the playoffs this year. Wade looks to have returned to his old form and if Shawn Marion can play at the same level as last year (a down year for him) or better, then the Heat are almost a lock to make it in the East, IMO. Unfortunately, I can't say I feel the same sense of optimism for our Hawks. Unless one of the youngsters makes the leap to superstardom (possible but not something I'd want to count on), the Hawks won't win too many games in 2008-09. This squad's bench is just too weak with Childress gone. I could easily see Indy missing the playoffs and Toronto, too. Tinsley and Ford almost make Claxton look durable and Jermaine O'Neal's best days are already in his NBA scrapbook.

Henry Abbott gets it: Al Horford: Great Draft Pick I see Horford as more of a leader now than ever, and a key reason Atlanta has a shot at winning a best-of-three series against the best team in the land. * I already wrote about how impressed I was that he was the one to calm Zaza Pachulia down after that altercation with Kevin Garnett. (Same video as the last link.) A+. * In all honesty, after not screaming at people all season, his screaming at Paul Pierce gave his team a big-time shot in the arm. It's not what you want every game, or almost ever, but it was exactly that his team needed just then. It told everyone that the Hawks were not, in their minds, underlings. * Al Horford called down to his college video coordinator to get a copy of the Muhammad Ali documentary "When We Were Kings" to show to his teammates to get them fired up. Are you kidding me? Are a lot of rookies even thinking about how to lift up their teammates in this way? I think not. * He can play! Here's ESPN's David Thorpe, in his Scouts Inc. preview of tonight's game, calling for Horford to be a bigger part of the offense when it matters. "The energized crowd in Atlanta helped the Hawks crawl back into the game after they were behind early (13 points) and then again at the end of the third quarter (10). Doing so, once or twice, will be much tougher in Boston, so coach Mike Woodson has to pick three or four of his best plays to immediately go to when facing a strong Boston run. Horford inside is one, Smith in open space is a second and anything involving Johnson ranks after those two options." Thorpe also talked a fair amount about Horford in his preview of Game 4. It makes me think Horford might have a little bit of what makes Tim Duncan such a great teammate: that "Mother Hen" instinct -- to want to make sure his teammates are all feeling good. Thorpe writes: Boston also needs to respect Al Horford more than it has. He sometimes has gone unchecked in the paint when Boston has 'zoned up' underneath on perimeter ball screens. Both Kendrick Perkins and KG have made that mistake, resulting in a dunk or foul. Finding Horford should be the No. 1 priority in those situations -- his hands are too good and he's too accomplished a finisher to be left unaccounted for inside. Horford was a larger part of the offense in Game 3 (only about three months late), routinely posting up and making easy kick-out passes when Boston did surround him, or hitting cutters for easy buckets. His six assists added up to 15 points, and his teammates moved smartly after the entry pass instead of standing and watching. In many ways, Horford already is the best leader on this team. He is its spirit and has a lot of influence on Josh Smith, Atlanta's supreme X factor. Late in Game 3, when Smith seemed to relax and enjoy Atlanta's lead, it was Horford who grabbed Smith's head with both hands and talked with him for a few moments. Smith immediately stopped smiling and plugged back in to the Hawks' huddle. If Boston can do a better job of derailing Horford, it will go a long way toward locking up Round 1.

Quote: You can't have it both ways though. The Celtics won 66 games with Doc at the helm. Victory-wise, that's in the top 10 of ALL TIME in the NBA. Off the top of my head, I can only think of 2 other NBA teams all time that posted more wins . . . the Jerry West Laker team that went 69 - 13 and Bulls team that won 72 games. So this Boston team may even be TOP 5 of ALL TIME!!! Another all time great team was the 2006-07 Dallas Mavericks with 67 wins... Don't be satisfied!

Quote: He has earned it---Will he keep the fire burning as a max-ish player? That's the issue with taking kids that young---you have to make a call on their makeup before they really fully grow up in the NBA. But, no doubt, he has earned it. I think betting on Josh is a pretty good bet. It really impressed me when he took it on himself last summer to go work with Hakeem and Calvin Murphy. He could've made a ton of money just on potential alone, but the approach he took makes me think his motivation to succeed comes from within.

I can't be the only one who thinks this is a good thing. Seriously, this has been a fantastic series and it would be a shame to see it tainted by suspensions, just like it was a shame last year when Amare and Diaw got suspended. All personal interests aside, as a basketball fan, you have to like the fact that the league is going to let a memorable playoff matchup be settled on the court and not in the league office, no?

Every come from ahead loss, every flat performance against teams like the Bucks and the Heat... these past two games have made it all worthwhile! I can't even get worked up about passing on Glenn Dorsey after tonight's win. Hawks fan, Celtics fan, whatever. If you're a basketball fan, you've gotta love this series!

The Wages of Wins Journal has rated the 15 most productive players at each position. Hawks making the list are: Joe Johnson 11th for SG, Josh Smith 11th for PF, and Josh Childress 8th for SF. I though Chill's ranking was pretty interesting. He played fewer minutes than most of the other SFs and piled up more wins than Carmelo Anthony, Andrei Kirilenko, Josh Howard, and Tayshaun Prince.

Quote: Steven A. Smith said the Celts had absorbed the Hawks best shot at Halftime and that they would run away with the game in the second half. Good call. Don't be too hard on ol' SAS, it's not his fault he can't hang with Charles Barkley as a basketball analyst.

Anyone out there that could make an animated gif of Horford's trash talking? That would be the sweetest avatar.

I wonder if it was a comment about stabbing because Pierce looked really, really pissed off.

Preach it!!!

Quote: Um, maybe the Clips do the trade because they suck. Both Magg and Brand have player options and they will both opt out. Livingston probably won't be any kind of threat he could of become. Somebody will offer Brand a near max contract and this will probably be his last big money contract so it would be foolish for him to stay being 29 and coming off an achilles injury. This is not NBA Live where players always play at a high level (cough shaq) simply off their reputation. Injuries take place, players age, players lose ability, it happens. Um, Squirt those stats are slightly different except for Marvin averaging more than 7 minutes per. If you ask any GM right now who are playoff ready, most would take A. Thornton over MW. So please explain how trading Chris Kaman for Mike Bibby and Zaza would help LA not suck? Even assuming that both of those guys opt out, Kaman would still be the guy they'd want to build around. And while you're at it, could you also explain why Al Thornton is better than Marvin? I mean, I know Thornton hits less of his shots from the field and the line, he grabs fewer rebounds, generates steals at about half the rate Marvin does, he gets fewer assists, and he turns the ball over more, but other than that, how is he better than Marvin? Look, if you don't like Marvin, that's not uncommon. I am pretty disappointed in the season he had too. But saying you wish he was as good as a rookie who's three years older than him and statistically worse in nearly every category is a pretty strange statement, the opinions of the league's GMs with whom you're apparently very familiar notwithstanding.

Quote: How about this deal Bibby and Zaza for Kaman and Mobley or whoever makes the salaries work. 19 million in salary dump in today's market is worth it's weight in gold and diamonds combined. Let's face it, la needs to go back and rebuild. They have the 6th pick and they can choose any of the promising bigs to replace Kaman. They need to build around Al Thornton (who we all thought MW would be playing like right now) and they have question marks at every position. Why would the Clippers trade Kaman? They could have a really good team next year with Kaman, Maggette , and Brand if he doesn't opt out, plus that high draft pick they've got. As for your hopes that Marvin can take his game to Al Thornton's level, I've got some great news for you: Marvin's already outplaying LA's 24 year old rookie. Al Thornton's stats: PPG 12.7 RPG 4.5 APG 1.2 SPG 0.6 BPG 0.5 FG% 0.429 FT% 0.743 3P% 0.331 MPG 27.3 And Marvin: PPG 14.8 RPG 5.7 APG 1.7 SPG 1.0 BPG 0.4 FG% 0.462 FT% 0.822 3P% 0.100 MPG 34.6

Unless the Pacers wanted Marvin to play PF it's hard to see where he'd fit in on a roster with Granger and Dunleavy Jr. In principle, however, I agree with you, JB. The Hawks have accumulated some quality young pieces. Now they need to cash in those skee ball tickets for a big prize. It has to be said, though, that when Boston got KG they gave up a prized young big in Jefferson. For the Hawks to pick up a superstar (and I'd only make this kind of move for a bona fide superstar), they'll almost certainly have to part with one of either Horford or Smith. Unless Chris Wallace is the GM on the other end of the trade.

I can't see trading Marvin for Joey Dorsey. That guy has an NBA ready body because he's a 24 year old college senior. I love the idea of picking Dorsey up in the 2nd round to give us 10-12 mins a night backing up the PF/C spots. He's a guy who's worth taking a flier on, a guy who has a decent shot at making your rotation, kinda like Glen Davis in last year's draft.

I don't understand why people are acting like Acie Law never gets any PT. He averages over 16 mpg. In fact, Chills is the only bench player getting more minutes than Acie. I know his minutes have been less consistent than many here would like (my guess is less consistent than the coaches would like also), but he's been injured a lot so far; Acie's missed over 20 games.

The word is that BK promised Shelden that the Hawks would select him in the draft. Unfortunately, this info got leaked and left Atlanta unable to trade down in the draft since everyone knew Knight was taking Shelden and not a prospect they might want.

Quote: Has it crossed your mind that all of those people that dislike him will be unemployed if and when he gains control of the team? That pretty much fixes the problem. Truth be told, there are probably only a small handful of people in the organization that deserve to be retained. I'm talking all the way down to the ushers. We need new blood. Anything that comes from this group is destined to be shortsighted and an abject failure. Yeah, I did consider that, TMC, but I disagree that firing everyone who dislikes you, when everyone dislikes you, is a viable solution. The problem isn't with the people who can't get along with Belkin, the problem is that Belkin can't get along with other people, and that's not something that you can fix just by letting go of the malcontents. Even if Belkin hired new people, I get the sense that it would only be a matter of time before he alienated them as well. We've all had our share of lousy bosses and great bosses, and the biggest problem with the lousy boss, from an organizational/franchise standpoint, is that they never get the most out of people. Now, that's one thing when the people that work for you are dime a dozen college students slingin' coffee at the local Starbucks (although it's still not a good thing). But a great general managers and coaches aren't dime a dozen resources; they are hard to find and even harder to keep if everyone the owner meets instinctively comes to the conclusion that the guy's a grade A douchebag. Again, this isn't an endorsement of the ASG or anything they've done to this point. They're by far the worst ownership group in Atlanta, especially now that AOLTW doesn't own the Braves anymore. If I were giving them grades, they got straight F's, failed out of college, got a job as a night clerk at QT, moved into their boozehound divorcee mother's basement and spent the rest of their lives smoking cheap Mexican brick weed. I can't stand the ASG. I just don't think Belkin could do better.

I voted not so much 'for' the ASG but against Belkin. Back when I lived in Atlanta I worked at Starbucks, and one of my coworker's best friends had a job in the Hawks front office. His buddy stopped by pretty regularly and one of the things he'd always mention is how much everyone, and I mean everyone, hated Steve Belkin. When he got forced out, they all celebrated. It's impossible to get along with everyone, but when you can't get along with anyone? I can't see that being an improvement for the franchise.

Whooooooooo!!!!! 66-62 University of Tennessee wins! Rise up, Vols!!! We're #1!!!! We're #1!!!! We're #1!!!! Instant classic!

Quote: What channel is it on? I was wanting to watch this, but I only have basic cable. I'm pretty sure this one is gonna be the national game on ESPN tonight at 9.